Your Quasi-Realistic Dream Trade Deadline

[todd_days_41]

I’ll try and keep it quasi

Trade 1: https://tradenba.com/trades/55oqrlKuF

Boston trades: Kemba Walker, 2021 OKC 1st

Dallas trades: Tim Hardaway, Jalen Brunson, Maxi Kleber

Why for Boston: Get an assortment of role players who can shoot to surround the Jays with.

Why for Dallas: Get the third star next to Luka & KP, have 3&D players like Richardson around them.

at what point did we get OKC's 1st rounder?  sure, if we can trade picks we don't own, I'd get really creative too.  Boston only has their own first rounders going forward

Far out, that's the second time I've mistyped OKC's 2nd as OKC's 1st

Also as a reminder, that pick is top 55 protected.  In other words, it’s a useless asset, because it will not convey. Same thing with Charlotte’s pick.

Dang, that totally escaped my mind (TradeNBA doesn’t list protections on previously traded picks).

It doesn’t even really matter - I’d be willing to throw in a future first for Brunson & Hardaway.

RealGM's Draft Assets page does a pretty good job of spelling out the protections on picks (so much so that it can be hard to even understand them in plain english sometimes, like one of the 2nds we acquired from Memphis last year).

[Jvalin]

Click on images to enlarge. Imo, the first deal is an overpay, but I tried to keep it realistic for Charlotte.





Sign Otto Porter via the buyout market.

PG: Rozier - Pritchard - Teague
SG: Brown - Smart - Green
SF: Porter - Satoransky - Nesmith
PF: Tatum - Semi - Grant
C: Theis - Zeller - Bamba

Let Zeller (+Teague, Green) walk at the end of the season. We'd probably save enough money to use the TPE and still keep our payroll under control.

Really not keen to bring Rozier back to play the point here. He’s currently thriving playing almost entirely off the ball alongside Hayward and Ball - doubt his recent success (which has been very impressive) would translate.

The other two deals are really solid though I think.

I bet Tatum/Smart would be our primary ball handlers in the half court. Rozier could be running the point in the open court.

Alternatively:



- Cut Green. His contract is non-guaranteed till February 27.
- Cut Teague and eat his salary.
- Sign Otto Porter via the buyout market.

PG: Rozier - Pritchard - Edwards
SG: Brown - Smart - Romeo
SF: Porter - Nesmith - Johnson
PF: Tatum - Semi - Grant
C: Theis - Zeller - Timelord

I’m sure that they would be. The problem is they’re inferior passers to Hayward and Ball, and that’s why Terry would probably revert to his less effective ways.

Kemba's eFG% this season is 45.1. The respective number for Rozier is 60.2! Even if Rozier's efficiency drops after the trade, chances are he'll still be more efficient than Kemba. Not to mention, he's a better defender.

If you factor in their salary as well, then it becomes a no-brainer going forward. Zeller won't be on the books next season. Rozier at 18 million >>> Kemba at 36 million. We could use the full TPE during the offseason and still keep our payroll under control.

[Moranis]

Click on images to enlarge. Imo, the first deal is an overpay, but I tried to keep it realistic for Charlotte.





Sign Otto Porter via the buyout market.

PG: Rozier - Pritchard - Teague
SG: Brown - Smart - Green
SF: Porter - Satoransky - Nesmith
PF: Tatum - Semi - Grant
C: Theis - Zeller - Bamba

Let Zeller (+Teague, Green) walk at the end of the season. We'd probably save enough money to use the TPE and still keep our payroll under control.

Really not keen to bring Rozier back to play the point here. He’s currently thriving playing almost entirely off the ball alongside Hayward and Ball - doubt his recent success (which has been very impressive) would translate.

The other two deals are really solid though I think.

I bet Tatum/Smart would be our primary ball handlers in the half court. Rozier could be running the point in the open court.

Alternatively:



- Cut Green. His contract is non-guaranteed till February 27.
- Cut Teague and eat his salary.
- Sign Otto Porter via the buyout market.

PG: Rozier - Pritchard - Edwards
SG: Brown - Smart - Romeo
SF: Porter - Nesmith - Johnson
PF: Tatum - Semi - Grant
C: Theis - Zeller - Timelord

I’m sure that they would be. The problem is they’re inferior passers to Hayward and Ball, and that’s why Terry would probably revert to his less effective ways.

Kemba's eFG% this season is 45.1. The respective number for Rozier is 60.2! Even if Rozier's efficiency drops after the trade, chances are he'll still be more efficient than Kemba. Not to mention, he's a better defender.

If you factor in their salary as well, then it becomes a no-brainer going forward. Zeller won't be on the books next season. Rozier at 18 million >>> Kemba at 36 million. We could use the full TPE during the offseason and still keep our payroll under control.

why would Charlotte give up two starters that are arguably better and certainly younger in that package?  How many 1st's is Boston throwing in to make it worthwhile?

[Jvalin]

For the record, I don't think we should sell low on Kemba. If I were Danny, I'd keep him at least till the offseason. That said, I'll play along.

Imo, the first deal is an overpay, but I tried to keep it realistic for Charlotte.





Sign Otto Porter via the buyout market.

PG: Rozier - Pritchard - Teague
SG: Brown - Smart - Green
SF: Porter - Satoransky - Nesmith
PF: Tatum - Semi - Grant
C: Theis - Zeller - Bamba

Let Zeller (+Teague, Green) walk at the end of the season. We'd probably save enough money to use the TPE and still keep our payroll under control.

Regarding the first trade, how many first round picks are we giving up to entice Jordan to take back a player with a terrible contract, who is injury prone, and on the wrong side of 30?  MJ did not want to re-sign Walker in the first place.

why would Charlotte give up two starters that are arguably better and certainly younger in that package?  How many 1st's is Boston throwing in to make it worthwhile?

The thread is titled ''Your Quasi-Realistic Dream Trade Deadline''.

Sure, it's possible that the Hornets say no. That said,

- The Hornets are paying ~30 million/year for Hayward, hence I guess they are in win-now mode.
- They aren't a free agency destination, unless they overpay (like they did with Hayward).
- If Kemba returns to his old self, he's the best player in the trade.
- Wouldn't include outgoing picks on our part, but this is why I included Timelord in my original proposal. He'd be a starter for them, especially since they'd be moving Zeller.
- Imo, Zeller is mediocre at best. Not to mention, he's massively overpaid. I wouldn't want him on the C's. Only reason I included him in the trade is to make the salaries work.

It ain't the most realistic idea of all time, but it ain't an impossible scenario either. Personally speaking, I believe the Timelord idea is an overpay on our part. I'm not sure whether I'd pull the trigger. I'd probably do the Thompson idea, although I'd be very hesitant to sell low on Kemba.

[Goldstar88]

For the record, I don't think we should sell low on Kemba. If I were Danny, I'd keep him at least till the offseason. That said, I'll play along.

Imo, the first deal is an overpay, but I tried to keep it realistic for Charlotte.





Sign Otto Porter via the buyout market.

PG: Rozier - Pritchard - Teague
SG: Brown - Smart - Green
SF: Porter - Satoransky - Nesmith
PF: Tatum - Semi - Grant
C: Theis - Zeller - Bamba

Let Zeller (+Teague, Green) walk at the end of the season. We'd probably save enough money to use the TPE and still keep our payroll under control.

Regarding the first trade, how many first round picks are we giving up to entice Jordan to take back a player with a terrible contract, who is injury prone, and on the wrong side of 30?  MJ did not want to re-sign Walker in the first place.

why would Charlotte give up two starters that are arguably better and certainly younger in that package?  How many 1st's is Boston throwing in to make it worthwhile?

The thread is titled ''Your Quasi-Realistic Dream Trade Deadline''.

Sure, it's possible that the Hornets say no. That said,

- The Hornets are paying ~30 million/year for Hayward, hence I guess they are in win-now mode.
- They aren't a free agency destination, unless they overpay (like they did with Hayward).
- If Kemba returns to his old self, he's the best player in the trade.
- Wouldn't include outgoing picks on our part, but this is why I included Timelord in my original proposal. He'd be a starter for them, especially since they'd be moving Zeller.
- Imo, Zeller is mediocre at best. Not to mention, he's massively overpaid. I wouldn't want him on the C's. Only reason I included him in the trade is to make the salaries work.

It ain't the most realistic idea of all time, but it ain't an impossible scenario either. Personally speaking, I believe the Timelord idea is an overpay on our part. I'm not sure whether I'd pull the trigger. I'd probably do the Thompson idea, although I'd be very hesitant to sell low on Kemba.

Yes, quasi-realistic lol. Kemba wanted to stay in Charlotte and Jordan didn’t believe in him and was not willing to pay Walker. Boston took a gamble by giving max money to Kemba and it hasn’t worked out, now Jordan’s going to change his tune and want to pay an underachieving, max player with an injury history? It just doesn’t make any sense.

[Jvalin]

For the record, I don't think we should sell low on Kemba. If I were Danny, I'd keep him at least till the offseason. That said, I'll play along.

Imo, the first deal is an overpay, but I tried to keep it realistic for Charlotte.





Sign Otto Porter via the buyout market.

PG: Rozier - Pritchard - Teague
SG: Brown - Smart - Green
SF: Porter - Satoransky - Nesmith
PF: Tatum - Semi - Grant
C: Theis - Zeller - Bamba

Let Zeller (+Teague, Green) walk at the end of the season. We'd probably save enough money to use the TPE and still keep our payroll under control.

Regarding the first trade, how many first round picks are we giving up to entice Jordan to take back a player with a terrible contract, who is injury prone, and on the wrong side of 30?  MJ did not want to re-sign Walker in the first place.

why would Charlotte give up two starters that are arguably better and certainly younger in that package?  How many 1st's is Boston throwing in to make it worthwhile?

The thread is titled ''Your Quasi-Realistic Dream Trade Deadline''.

Sure, it's possible that the Hornets say no. That said,

- The Hornets are paying ~30 million/year for Hayward, hence I guess they are in win-now mode.
- They aren't a free agency destination, unless they overpay (like they did with Hayward).
- If Kemba returns to his old self, he's the best player in the trade.
- Wouldn't include outgoing picks on our part, but this is why I included Timelord in my original proposal. He'd be a starter for them, especially since they'd be moving Zeller.
- Imo, Zeller is mediocre at best. Not to mention, he's massively overpaid. I wouldn't want him on the C's. Only reason I included him in the trade is to make the salaries work.

It ain't the most realistic idea of all time, but it ain't an impossible scenario either. Personally speaking, I believe the Timelord idea is an overpay on our part. I'm not sure whether I'd pull the trigger. I'd probably do the Thompson idea, although I'd be very hesitant to sell low on Kemba.

Yes, quasi-realistic lol. Kemba wanted to stay in Charlotte and Jordan didn’t believe in him and was not willing to pay Walker. Boston took a gamble by giving max money to Kemba and it hasn’t worked out, now Jordan’s going to change his tune and want to pay an underachieving, max player with an injury history? It just doesn’t make any sense.

I just posted a trade idea mate. There are plenty of people in the Charlotte front office: scouts, analysts, assistants, you name it. It ain't just one man. People change over time. Opinions change too. The Hornets aren't the same team they were in 2019. You don't know what their FO thinks. I don't know either. Value-wise, imo both trades are at least quasi-realistic. Feel free to act as if you know what each team will do.

It's not like Kemba is toasted like Blake Griffin. He's still a productive player, albeit on the wrong side of 30 and overpaid. The same goes for Hayward whom they signed on a 4-year contract a few months ago.

[Goldstar88]

For the record, I don't think we should sell low on Kemba. If I were Danny, I'd keep him at least till the offseason. That said, I'll play along.

Imo, the first deal is an overpay, but I tried to keep it realistic for Charlotte.





Sign Otto Porter via the buyout market.

PG: Rozier - Pritchard - Teague
SG: Brown - Smart - Green
SF: Porter - Satoransky - Nesmith
PF: Tatum - Semi - Grant
C: Theis - Zeller - Bamba

Let Zeller (+Teague, Green) walk at the end of the season. We'd probably save enough money to use the TPE and still keep our payroll under control.

Regarding the first trade, how many first round picks are we giving up to entice Jordan to take back a player with a terrible contract, who is injury prone, and on the wrong side of 30?  MJ did not want to re-sign Walker in the first place.

why would Charlotte give up two starters that are arguably better and certainly younger in that package?  How many 1st's is Boston throwing in to make it worthwhile?

The thread is titled ''Your Quasi-Realistic Dream Trade Deadline''.

Sure, it's possible that the Hornets say no. That said,

- The Hornets are paying ~30 million/year for Hayward, hence I guess they are in win-now mode.
- They aren't a free agency destination, unless they overpay (like they did with Hayward).
- If Kemba returns to his old self, he's the best player in the trade.
- Wouldn't include outgoing picks on our part, but this is why I included Timelord in my original proposal. He'd be a starter for them, especially since they'd be moving Zeller.
- Imo, Zeller is mediocre at best. Not to mention, he's massively overpaid. I wouldn't want him on the C's. Only reason I included him in the trade is to make the salaries work.

It ain't the most realistic idea of all time, but it ain't an impossible scenario either. Personally speaking, I believe the Timelord idea is an overpay on our part. I'm not sure whether I'd pull the trigger. I'd probably do the Thompson idea, although I'd be very hesitant to sell low on Kemba.

Yes, quasi-realistic lol. Kemba wanted to stay in Charlotte and Jordan didn’t believe in him and was not willing to pay Walker. Boston took a gamble by giving max money to Kemba and it hasn’t worked out, now Jordan’s going to change his tune and want to pay an underachieving, max player with an injury history? It just doesn’t make any sense.

I just posted a trade idea mate. There are plenty of people in the Charlotte front office: scouts, analysts, assistants, you name it. It ain't just one man. People change over time. Opinions change too. The Hornets aren't the same team they were in 2019. You don't know what their FO thinks. I don't know either. Value-wise, imo both trades are at least quasi-realistic. Feel free to act as if you know what each team will do.

It's not like Kemba is toasted like Blake Griffin. He's still a productive player, albeit on the wrong side of 30 and overpaid. The same goes for Hayward whom they signed on a 4-year contract a few months ago.

I know, just trying to understand your proposal. Of course we are all speculating at this point, I just don’t see this one. To each their own I suppose.

[gouki88]

In: Collins, Dunn, Redick
Out:  Smart, Timelord, two #1s, two #2s

(NOP gets Snell from ATL and #2s from us)

Can’t stress how bad this trade is on material value.

Smart is the best player in that trade. Are you sure we need to be giving 4 picks??

Collins is probably a better player than Smart. He's younger, and has more room to grow too.

[Goldstar88]

In: Collins, Dunn, Redick
Out:  Smart, Timelord, two #1s, two #2s

(NOP gets Snell from ATL and #2s from us)

Can’t stress how bad this trade is on material value.

Smart is the best player in that trade. Are you sure we need to be giving 4 picks??

Collins is probably a better player than Smart. He's younger, and has more room to grow too.

Maybe on paper, but his defense looks average and I’m not sure he would be as good of a fit. Plus, he’s going to cost a hell of a lot more than Smart.

[Erik]

By what metric ?

Smart is a 2 time all defense and is going to be in a conversation there for a long time coming. Collins is in 0 discussions for anything. He has no playoffs experience. His team doesn't want him.

Every analyst ranking Ive seen puts Smart over Collins.

20 and 8 guys on a bad team are a dime a dozen. I'm not sure that Robert Williams doesn't put up those number in Atlanta. Smart is a special player.

And we give up 4 picks ??

It's just bad sorry.

[Goldstar88]

By what metric ?

Smart is a 2 time all defense and is going to be in a conversation there for a long time coming. Collins is in 0 discussions for anything. He has no playoffs experience. His team doesn't want him.

Every analyst ranking Ive seen puts Smart over Collins.

20 and 8 guys on a bad team are a dime a dozen. I'm not sure that Robert Williams doesn't put up those number in Atlanta. Smart is a special player.

And we give up 4 picks ??

It's just bad sorry.

C’s fans severely undervalue Smart because he doesn’t score 20ppg and shoot 36+% from 3pt. Even though he does so many other things that contribute to the teams success, it doesn’t seem to matter to most. Best passer and defender, can guard 4 positions. Is a leader...., maybe the only leader on this team.

[gouki88]

By what metric ?

Smart is a 2 time all defense and is going to be in a conversation there for a long time coming. Collins is in 0 discussions for anything. He has no playoffs experience. His team doesn't want him.

Every analyst ranking Ive seen puts Smart over Collins.

20 and 8 guys on a bad team are a dime a dozen. I'm not sure that Robert Williams doesn't put up those number in Atlanta. Smart is a special player.

And we give up 4 picks ??

It's just bad sorry.

Lol, c'mon, this isn't even pretending to be a genuine representation of Collins' ability. If you think Robert Williams is capable of putting up 20/9/2 on 58/38/79 shooting splits over 3 years then bully for you. Collins would have been in All-Star conversations last year if he'd been healthy. Last season he was better as a roll-man than AD, Rudy Gobert and Bam Adebayo.
Also, what rankings are you referring to? SI has Collins 9 places higher than Smart, B/R had Collins at 45, Smart at 75. Then others had basically those same results, except flipped in Smart's favour. There's absolutely no consensus - it's just whichever you prefer, offence or defence. Given both our offence and defence suck, I'd rather the young guy.

You say 20/8 bigs are a dime a dozen? I say show me. Meanwhile, I'll show you how defensive specialist guards with limited / questionable offensive outputs are dime a dozen. Smart, Beverley, Bledsoe, Murray, Roberson, AB, Tony Allen, Thabo Sefalosha, McConnell, Josh Richardson, Thybulle, Danny Green, Lonzo Ball, Kris Dunn, Gary Harris, Lu Dort, Garrett Temple, and so on. There are a heap of guards that come through the league with elite defensive ability and dodgy offence. There aren't many bigs who can give you 20/10 while scraping 60/40/80 shooting splits.
Not all of these guys are particularly close to Smart on defence, but some have better offensive abilities, and some have contributed to more winning teams.

When was the last time a championship team had an All-Defensive guard? I'll tell you - it was Kobe (a pretty nifty offensive player) in 09-10. Defensive monster guards simply are not as valuable in the modern NBA as they were in times gone by. They've never been as valuable as defensive monster bigs, but I think the gap is bigger today than it was 15 years ago. I know Smart brings a lot of intangibles and grit, and we love him for that, but those things aren't as valuable when our team is garbage.

The downside is that Collins will demand a lot of money given his ability and production. Given we were willing to pay Hayward, not sure if this is an issue for us. I think Smart is overrated by some here, and underrated by others. His loss would be bad for chemistry for sure, but he's probably our 4th best player.

[Goldstar88]

In: Collins, Dunn, Redick
Out:  Smart, Timelord, two #1s, two #2s

(NOP gets Snell from ATL and #2s from us)

Can’t stress how bad this trade is on material value.

Smart is the best player in that trade. Are you sure we need to be giving 4 picks??

Collins is probably a better player than Smart. He's younger, and has more room to grow too.

Collins points and rebounds per game may be better than Smarts, but when you factor in defense, passing, and leadership, I don’t think that he necessarily adds more value to the team. Plus, he’s looking for max dollars...he’s a nice player, but he’s not worth it.  C’s have 3 high volume shooters with Jayson, Jaylen, and Kemba. Unless Kemba is out of the picture, adding a Collins wouldn’t make sense.

Although Collins does shoot the ball well, putting up 18ppg and 7reb as a second option on a bad team is not all that impressive. He averaged 21 and 10 last season and is putting up worse numbers this year when he’s playing for a new contract. Can someone explain  that one?

[Erik]

I don't recall John Collins in discussion for all star, ever.

Few other players with similar stat lines: Vucevic, Drummond, Valanciunas

None of which are impressive basketball players.

Finally, it seems like your entire argument is that they're similar in talent... I disagree but let's say you're right since this is a subjective argument... again why 4 picks?

Also any consideration towards Smart being a leader on the team and Collins not being wanted by his team ?

[Moranis]

By what metric ?

Smart is a 2 time all defense and is going to be in a conversation there for a long time coming. Collins is in 0 discussions for anything. He has no playoffs experience. His team doesn't want him.

Every analyst ranking Ive seen puts Smart over Collins.

20 and 8 guys on a bad team are a dime a dozen. I'm not sure that Robert Williams doesn't put up those number in Atlanta. Smart is a special player.

And we give up 4 picks ??

It's just bad sorry.

Entering the year SI had Collins ranked at 59 and Smart at 68.  https://www.si.com/nba/2020/12/14/top-100-nba-players-2021-daily-cover

Collins is a lot younger and has gotten better every year.  It makes perfectly logical sense that he would have more value going forward, and probably significantly more value. 

68. Marcus Smart, Boston Celtics

It’s possible Smart’s career-best 2018–19 season—when he appeared to take a step forward as a scorer—was something of a mirage in terms of shooting. But if he’s proved one thing over the years, it’s that there’s a method behind his unique brand of chaotic good. Smart is an energy-giver in a way that few, if any, of his peers can truly match, flying around defensively to create stops, occasionally catching fire from distance, and ratcheting up the intensity level of a given moment. He’ll never be the king of efficiency, but he’s fashioned himself into a more reliable jump shooter over the years. Smart doesn’t always take care, but he always cares, sometimes more than he should, always for the right reasons. There will be nights he struggles to find the net, and others where one or two particularly inspired Smart shifts can swing the outcome of a game. He’s become an indispensable piece of one of the NBA’s better teams, and he’s earned first-team all-defense honors in consecutive years. And in an exercise like this that attempts to remove players from their contexts, his situational worth to the Celtics might even be slightly undersold. —J.W.

59. John Collins, Atlanta Hawks

Atlanta gave its roster a major makeover ahead of 2020-21, shelling out nine figures for Bogdan Bogdanović and Danilo Gallinari in a push to reach the postseason. The pair of free-agent signings will be joined by frontcourt newcomers Clint Capela and Onyeka Okongwu, creating a short-term logjam. But the added pieces won’t cut into Collins’s production as much as one may think. The Wake Forest has been a prodigious offensive force and will be a part of unlocking Atlanta’s tantalizing ceiling. Collins is an ideal frontcourt player alongside Trae Young, at least on the offensive end. His evolving jumper—40.1 percent from three in 2019–20—creates legitimate spacing in pick-and-pop scenarios, and Collins is downright lethal as a roll man. He averaged 1.31 points per roll possession last season, posting a better mark than Anthony Davis, Bam Adebayo and Rudy Gobert. Collins can put the ball on the floor in tight spaces, and he’s an elite leaper at the rim. You can quibble with his defensive shortcomings, as well as his lack of a true position at 6' 9". But Collins’s offensive skills are undeniable. He should command a nine-figure contract next summer, even if he moves on from Atlanta. —M.S.