What If Danny Really Was the Best GM in the World?

[Fred Ziffel]

Ainge hasn't picked up any players at the trade deadline for YEARS. The other contenders pick up players and it shows the team that the GM has their back and wants to give them an edge.  Danny always picked up players years ago. But a few years ago there were a couple players Danny tried to buyout but they stated they didn't want to play in Boston.  I think Danny took it personally.  Because even the year when we had Kyrie and Horford with Tatum and Brown he didn't do anything at the deadline. Really discouraging because everybody else including Milwaukee helped themselves that year.  Who knows the last time the Celtics picked up a player at the deadline or in a buyout for the playoffs. I bet it was years and years ago. It is not happening for a reason.

[BMark]

Kyrie is ancient history.  This team as presently constituted is a .500 team with a glaring need for strength and length.  Teams routinely drive the ball to the basket without fear.

JT and JB represent a potent base for a contending team. The remaining players are not championship-level supporting pieces.  I think Ainge will allow this team to sink or swim as is for the remainder of the season and then revisit his options, and use the TPE, for another impact player in  the offseason.

[Moranis]

Ainge is a very good GM, but he has struggled to pick a path since he made the KG/PP trade with the Nets.  He hasn't quite figured out what he wants to do.  Does he want to go all in on a youth movement, or does he want to try to win now.  He has tried to do both and that has really hampered both paths.  The Irving trade is a perfect example of this.  Trading for Irving wasn't the problem, it was trading for Irving and then not following up to add to Irving.  Like not taking the chance on Leonard is a perfect example of this.  Once he traded for Irving, he needed to follow it up and make the championship winning move.  I liken this to the Ray Allen trade.  Acquiring Irving was like acquiring Ray Allen.  That trade was a fine trade, but had he not then pulled the trigger on Garnett, Boston never would have won the title and would have essentially wasted a high draft pick to get the team somewhat close, but not close enough.  That is what he did when he acquired Irving and that is what has led to this being a nice fun team, but not one that is going to win the title as currently constructed.  I absolutely believe Boston would have at least made the Finals if not won the title had he acquired Leonard for essentially Brown.  Conversely, I absolutely believe Boston would be more likely to win a title right now had he not made the Irving trade at all because it would have had that additional top 10 pick and frankly may still have other valuable players on the team.  This indecision to fully commit has been the biggest issue I've had with Ainge the last 7 or 8 years.

I’m not sure this is fair.  Danny had a plan:  have a core of Kyrie / Hayward / Horford, and then use our young players and draft picks to add the final piece. 

Wasn’t Danny’s plan pretty clear?  He wanted Anthony Davis.  The Hayward injury and Kyrie flaking out ruined that, but it was pretty reasonable to expect a team of:

Horford
Davis
Hayward
Brown
Kyrie

That was the direction he picked.  It just didn’t work out.

Except when Kawhi was available, no one knew if Davis was even going to hit free agency.  The plan should have been add top 5ish talent.  When a top 5 talent became available, Ainge passed.  His indecision or waiting for something better, failed the team.  I firmly believe that.  If a plan is so focused on 1 player and only works with 1 player, that isn't a plan. 

[Roy H.]

Ainge is a very good GM, but he has struggled to pick a path since he made the KG/PP trade with the Nets.  He hasn't quite figured out what he wants to do.  Does he want to go all in on a youth movement, or does he want to try to win now.  He has tried to do both and that has really hampered both paths.  The Irving trade is a perfect example of this.  Trading for Irving wasn't the problem, it was trading for Irving and then not following up to add to Irving.  Like not taking the chance on Leonard is a perfect example of this.  Once he traded for Irving, he needed to follow it up and make the championship winning move.  I liken this to the Ray Allen trade.  Acquiring Irving was like acquiring Ray Allen.  That trade was a fine trade, but had he not then pulled the trigger on Garnett, Boston never would have won the title and would have essentially wasted a high draft pick to get the team somewhat close, but not close enough.  That is what he did when he acquired Irving and that is what has led to this being a nice fun team, but not one that is going to win the title as currently constructed.  I absolutely believe Boston would have at least made the Finals if not won the title had he acquired Leonard for essentially Brown.  Conversely, I absolutely believe Boston would be more likely to win a title right now had he not made the Irving trade at all because it would have had that additional top 10 pick and frankly may still have other valuable players on the team.  This indecision to fully commit has been the biggest issue I've had with Ainge the last 7 or 8 years.

I’m not sure this is fair.  Danny had a plan:  have a core of Kyrie / Hayward / Horford, and then use our young players and draft picks to add the final piece. 

Wasn’t Danny’s plan pretty clear?  He wanted Anthony Davis.  The Hayward injury and Kyrie flaking out ruined that, but it was pretty reasonable to expect a team of:

Horford
Davis
Hayward
Brown
Kyrie

That was the direction he picked.  It just didn’t work out.

Except when Kawhi was available, no one knew if Davis was even going to hit free agency.  The plan should have been add top 5ish talent.  When a top 5 talent became available, Ainge passed.  His indecision or waiting for something better, failed the team.  I firmly believe that.  If a plan is so focused on 1 player and only works with 1 player, that isn't a plan.

Kawhi was a one year rental.  If he had left after one year, and we lost Jaylin in the process, would you have been cool with that?

[Neurotic Guy]

Doesn’t the trajectory start to change the minute Giannis is selected?

I’m pretty sure Danny had regrets- and Giannis has to be atop the list.

[GreenlyGreeny]

Ainge is a very good GM, but he has struggled to pick a path since he made the KG/PP trade with the Nets.  He hasn't quite figured out what he wants to do.  Does he want to go all in on a youth movement, or does he want to try to win now.  He has tried to do both and that has really hampered both paths.  The Irving trade is a perfect example of this.  Trading for Irving wasn't the problem, it was trading for Irving and then not following up to add to Irving.  Like not taking the chance on Leonard is a perfect example of this.  Once he traded for Irving, he needed to follow it up and make the championship winning move.  I liken this to the Ray Allen trade.  Acquiring Irving was like acquiring Ray Allen.  That trade was a fine trade, but had he not then pulled the trigger on Garnett, Boston never would have won the title and would have essentially wasted a high draft pick to get the team somewhat close, but not close enough.  That is what he did when he acquired Irving and that is what has led to this being a nice fun team, but not one that is going to win the title as currently constructed.  I absolutely believe Boston would have at least made the Finals if not won the title had he acquired Leonard for essentially Brown.  Conversely, I absolutely believe Boston would be more likely to win a title right now had he not made the Irving trade at all because it would have had that additional top 10 pick and frankly may still have other valuable players on the team.  This indecision to fully commit has been the biggest issue I've had with Ainge the last 7 or 8 years.

I’m not sure this is fair.  Danny had a plan:  have a core of Kyrie / Hayward / Horford, and then use our young players and draft picks to add the final piece. 

Wasn’t Danny’s plan pretty clear?  He wanted Anthony Davis.  The Hayward injury and Kyrie flaking out ruined that, but it was pretty reasonable to expect a team of:

Horford
Davis
Hayward
Brown
Kyrie

That was the direction he picked.  It just didn’t work out.

Except when Kawhi was available, no one knew if Davis was even going to hit free agency.  The plan should have been add top 5ish talent.  When a top 5 talent became available, Ainge passed.  His indecision or waiting for something better, failed the team.  I firmly believe that.  If a plan is so focused on 1 player and only works with 1 player, that isn't a plan.

Kawhi was a one year rental.  If he had left after one year, and we lost Jaylin in the process, would you have been cool with that?

If we had won a title instead of the Raptors, absolutely.

Frankly, I think if Kawhi had come here and won he’d have pulled a KG and fallen in love with Celtic lore and laying his claim to being the best player in the world after dethroning LeBron.

[NKY fan]

Ainge is a very good GM, but he has struggled to pick a path since he made the KG/PP trade with the Nets.  He hasn't quite figured out what he wants to do.  Does he want to go all in on a youth movement, or does he want to try to win now.  He has tried to do both and that has really hampered both paths.  The Irving trade is a perfect example of this.  Trading for Irving wasn't the problem, it was trading for Irving and then not following up to add to Irving.  Like not taking the chance on Leonard is a perfect example of this.  Once he traded for Irving, he needed to follow it up and make the championship winning move.  I liken this to the Ray Allen trade.  Acquiring Irving was like acquiring Ray Allen.  That trade was a fine trade, but had he not then pulled the trigger on Garnett, Boston never would have won the title and would have essentially wasted a high draft pick to get the team somewhat close, but not close enough.  That is what he did when he acquired Irving and that is what has led to this being a nice fun team, but not one that is going to win the title as currently constructed.  I absolutely believe Boston would have at least made the Finals if not won the title had he acquired Leonard for essentially Brown.  Conversely, I absolutely believe Boston would be more likely to win a title right now had he not made the Irving trade at all because it would have had that additional top 10 pick and frankly may still have other valuable players on the team.  This indecision to fully commit has been the biggest issue I've had with Ainge the last 7 or 8 years.

I’m not sure this is fair.  Danny had a plan:  have a core of Kyrie / Hayward / Horford, and then use our young players and draft picks to add the final piece. 

Wasn’t Danny’s plan pretty clear?  He wanted Anthony Davis.  The Hayward injury and Kyrie flaking out ruined that, but it was pretty reasonable to expect a team of:

Horford
Davis
Hayward
Brown
Kyrie

That was the direction he picked.  It just didn’t work out.

Except when Kawhi was available, no one knew if Davis was even going to hit free agency.  The plan should have been add top 5ish talent.  When a top 5 talent became available, Ainge passed.  His indecision or waiting for something better, failed the team.  I firmly believe that.  If a plan is so focused on 1 player and only works with 1 player, that isn't a plan.

Kawhi was a one year rental.  If he had left after one year, and we lost Jaylin in the process, would you have been cool with that?

I know Pop wanted decent players/all stars back in a Kawhi trade but wouldn't the following package be enough:
Hayward + MEM FRP + SAC FRP - both picks were considered potentially top 5 because both those franchises were doing bad and were stuck rebuilding. I think Kawhi was never even linked to the Celtics. Ainge was scared because of Kawhi's mysterious injury at the time. But as Ujiri proved "scared" money makes no money

[GreenlyGreeny]

Doesn’t the trajectory start to change the minute Giannis is selected?

I’m pretty sure Danny had regrets- and Giannis has to be atop the list.

The Nets would have stunk no matter what we did differently so Jaylen and Jayson still would have been available. That 8th pick in 2018 may have been a ticket to move up and secure Doncic. The only thing that might have been different was a slightly better record that got us a pick too high to get Smart. 

[Roy H.]

Ainge is a very good GM, but he has struggled to pick a path since he made the KG/PP trade with the Nets.  He hasn't quite figured out what he wants to do.  Does he want to go all in on a youth movement, or does he want to try to win now.  He has tried to do both and that has really hampered both paths.  The Irving trade is a perfect example of this.  Trading for Irving wasn't the problem, it was trading for Irving and then not following up to add to Irving.  Like not taking the chance on Leonard is a perfect example of this.  Once he traded for Irving, he needed to follow it up and make the championship winning move.  I liken this to the Ray Allen trade.  Acquiring Irving was like acquiring Ray Allen.  That trade was a fine trade, but had he not then pulled the trigger on Garnett, Boston never would have won the title and would have essentially wasted a high draft pick to get the team somewhat close, but not close enough.  That is what he did when he acquired Irving and that is what has led to this being a nice fun team, but not one that is going to win the title as currently constructed.  I absolutely believe Boston would have at least made the Finals if not won the title had he acquired Leonard for essentially Brown.  Conversely, I absolutely believe Boston would be more likely to win a title right now had he not made the Irving trade at all because it would have had that additional top 10 pick and frankly may still have other valuable players on the team.  This indecision to fully commit has been the biggest issue I've had with Ainge the last 7 or 8 years.

I’m not sure this is fair.  Danny had a plan:  have a core of Kyrie / Hayward / Horford, and then use our young players and draft picks to add the final piece. 

Wasn’t Danny’s plan pretty clear?  He wanted Anthony Davis.  The Hayward injury and Kyrie flaking out ruined that, but it was pretty reasonable to expect a team of:

Horford
Davis
Hayward
Brown
Kyrie

That was the direction he picked.  It just didn’t work out.

Except when Kawhi was available, no one knew if Davis was even going to hit free agency.  The plan should have been add top 5ish talent.  When a top 5 talent became available, Ainge passed.  His indecision or waiting for something better, failed the team.  I firmly believe that.  If a plan is so focused on 1 player and only works with 1 player, that isn't a plan.

Kawhi was a one year rental.  If he had left after one year, and we lost Jaylin in the process, would you have been cool with that?

If we had won a title instead of the Raptors, absolutely.

Frankly, I think if Kawhi had come here and won he’d have pulled a KG and fallen in love with Celtic lore and laying his claim to being the best player in the world after dethroning LeBron.

What if we fell short (like Toronto almost did)?  Still cool with trading away a young star?

And, I don’t think he would have stayed.  He telegraphed his desire to go to LA pretty clearly.

[Donoghus]

Ainge is a very good GM, but he has struggled to pick a path since he made the KG/PP trade with the Nets.  He hasn't quite figured out what he wants to do.  Does he want to go all in on a youth movement, or does he want to try to win now.  He has tried to do both and that has really hampered both paths.  The Irving trade is a perfect example of this.  Trading for Irving wasn't the problem, it was trading for Irving and then not following up to add to Irving.  Like not taking the chance on Leonard is a perfect example of this.  Once he traded for Irving, he needed to follow it up and make the championship winning move.  I liken this to the Ray Allen trade.  Acquiring Irving was like acquiring Ray Allen.  That trade was a fine trade, but had he not then pulled the trigger on Garnett, Boston never would have won the title and would have essentially wasted a high draft pick to get the team somewhat close, but not close enough.  That is what he did when he acquired Irving and that is what has led to this being a nice fun team, but not one that is going to win the title as currently constructed.  I absolutely believe Boston would have at least made the Finals if not won the title had he acquired Leonard for essentially Brown.  Conversely, I absolutely believe Boston would be more likely to win a title right now had he not made the Irving trade at all because it would have had that additional top 10 pick and frankly may still have other valuable players on the team.  This indecision to fully commit has been the biggest issue I've had with Ainge the last 7 or 8 years.

I’m not sure this is fair.  Danny had a plan:  have a core of Kyrie / Hayward / Horford, and then use our young players and draft picks to add the final piece. 

Wasn’t Danny’s plan pretty clear?  He wanted Anthony Davis.  The Hayward injury and Kyrie flaking out ruined that, but it was pretty reasonable to expect a team of:

Horford
Davis
Hayward
Brown
Kyrie

That was the direction he picked.  It just didn’t work out.

Except when Kawhi was available, no one knew if Davis was even going to hit free agency.  The plan should have been add top 5ish talent.  When a top 5 talent became available, Ainge passed.  His indecision or waiting for something better, failed the team.  I firmly believe that.  If a plan is so focused on 1 player and only works with 1 player, that isn't a plan.

Kawhi was a one year rental.  If he had left after one year, and we lost Jaylin in the process, would you have been cool with that?

If we had won a title instead of the Raptors, absolutely.

Frankly, I think if Kawhi had come here and won he’d have pulled a KG and fallen in love with Celtic lore and laying his claim to being the best player in the world after dethroning LeBron.

What if we fell short (like Toronto almost did)?  Still cool with trading away a young star?

And, I don’t think he would have stayed.  He telegraphed his desire to go to LA pretty clearly.

Celtics would've been screwed.  It was real high risk/high reward.

[GreenlyGreeny]

Ainge is a very good GM, but he has struggled to pick a path since he made the KG/PP trade with the Nets.  He hasn't quite figured out what he wants to do.  Does he want to go all in on a youth movement, or does he want to try to win now.  He has tried to do both and that has really hampered both paths.  The Irving trade is a perfect example of this.  Trading for Irving wasn't the problem, it was trading for Irving and then not following up to add to Irving.  Like not taking the chance on Leonard is a perfect example of this.  Once he traded for Irving, he needed to follow it up and make the championship winning move.  I liken this to the Ray Allen trade.  Acquiring Irving was like acquiring Ray Allen.  That trade was a fine trade, but had he not then pulled the trigger on Garnett, Boston never would have won the title and would have essentially wasted a high draft pick to get the team somewhat close, but not close enough.  That is what he did when he acquired Irving and that is what has led to this being a nice fun team, but not one that is going to win the title as currently constructed.  I absolutely believe Boston would have at least made the Finals if not won the title had he acquired Leonard for essentially Brown.  Conversely, I absolutely believe Boston would be more likely to win a title right now had he not made the Irving trade at all because it would have had that additional top 10 pick and frankly may still have other valuable players on the team.  This indecision to fully commit has been the biggest issue I've had with Ainge the last 7 or 8 years.

I’m not sure this is fair.  Danny had a plan:  have a core of Kyrie / Hayward / Horford, and then use our young players and draft picks to add the final piece. 

Wasn’t Danny’s plan pretty clear?  He wanted Anthony Davis.  The Hayward injury and Kyrie flaking out ruined that, but it was pretty reasonable to expect a team of:

Horford
Davis
Hayward
Brown
Kyrie

That was the direction he picked.  It just didn’t work out.

Except when Kawhi was available, no one knew if Davis was even going to hit free agency.  The plan should have been add top 5ish talent.  When a top 5 talent became available, Ainge passed.  His indecision or waiting for something better, failed the team.  I firmly believe that.  If a plan is so focused on 1 player and only works with 1 player, that isn't a plan.

Kawhi was a one year rental.  If he had left after one year, and we lost Jaylin in the process, would you have been cool with that?

If we had won a title instead of the Raptors, absolutely.

Frankly, I think if Kawhi had come here and won he’d have pulled a KG and fallen in love with Celtic lore and laying his claim to being the best player in the world after dethroning LeBron.

What if we fell short (like Toronto almost did)?  Still cool with trading away a young star?

And, I don’t think he would have stayed.  He telegraphed his desire to go to LA pretty clearly.

I still think I’d be ok with it. It could have been a move that at least kept Kyrie here. I personally think Kawhi, Kyrie, Tatum, Horford and Hayward would have had a hard time not staying together. It could have been a dynasty. Kawhi would have had a hard time walking away from two superstars to join Paul George with a team with no draft picks. Toronto is not even in the same country as Boston, and they had no stars, yet he almost stayed with them after winning.

[Roy H.]

Ainge is a very good GM, but he has struggled to pick a path since he made the KG/PP trade with the Nets.  He hasn't quite figured out what he wants to do.  Does he want to go all in on a youth movement, or does he want to try to win now.  He has tried to do both and that has really hampered both paths.  The Irving trade is a perfect example of this.  Trading for Irving wasn't the problem, it was trading for Irving and then not following up to add to Irving.  Like not taking the chance on Leonard is a perfect example of this.  Once he traded for Irving, he needed to follow it up and make the championship winning move.  I liken this to the Ray Allen trade.  Acquiring Irving was like acquiring Ray Allen.  That trade was a fine trade, but had he not then pulled the trigger on Garnett, Boston never would have won the title and would have essentially wasted a high draft pick to get the team somewhat close, but not close enough.  That is what he did when he acquired Irving and that is what has led to this being a nice fun team, but not one that is going to win the title as currently constructed.  I absolutely believe Boston would have at least made the Finals if not won the title had he acquired Leonard for essentially Brown.  Conversely, I absolutely believe Boston would be more likely to win a title right now had he not made the Irving trade at all because it would have had that additional top 10 pick and frankly may still have other valuable players on the team.  This indecision to fully commit has been the biggest issue I've had with Ainge the last 7 or 8 years.

I’m not sure this is fair.  Danny had a plan:  have a core of Kyrie / Hayward / Horford, and then use our young players and draft picks to add the final piece. 

Wasn’t Danny’s plan pretty clear?  He wanted Anthony Davis.  The Hayward injury and Kyrie flaking out ruined that, but it was pretty reasonable to expect a team of:

Horford
Davis
Hayward
Brown
Kyrie

That was the direction he picked.  It just didn’t work out.

Except when Kawhi was available, no one knew if Davis was even going to hit free agency.  The plan should have been add top 5ish talent.  When a top 5 talent became available, Ainge passed.  His indecision or waiting for something better, failed the team.  I firmly believe that.  If a plan is so focused on 1 player and only works with 1 player, that isn't a plan.

Kawhi was a one year rental.  If he had left after one year, and we lost Jaylin in the process, would you have been cool with that?

If we had won a title instead of the Raptors, absolutely.

Frankly, I think if Kawhi had come here and won he’d have pulled a KG and fallen in love with Celtic lore and laying his claim to being the best player in the world after dethroning LeBron.

What if we fell short (like Toronto almost did)?  Still cool with trading away a young star?

And, I don’t think he would have stayed.  He telegraphed his desire to go to LA pretty clearly.

Celtics would've been screwed.  It was real high risk/high reward.

Yep.  And we forget that Kawhi had been a malingerer / malcontent for at least a year at that point, forcing himself out of one of the ideal franchises in professional sports.

At the time, I was actually in favor of a deal, because I didn’t think JB would develop to this level.  However, seeing the way things broke down with Kyrie, Horford and Hayward’s discontent, Kawhi leaving a championship with a strong core, etc., I think Danny made the right choice.

[nickagneta]

Doesn’t the trajectory start to change the minute Giannis is selected?

I’m pretty sure Danny had regrets- and Giannis has to be atop the list.

About 14 other GMs probably regret it too. But this is quite different than other "I should have taken the superstar" gaffs. Half the league passed on Giannis.

It's not like Danny chose Sam Bowie at #2 and Jordan went #3. It's not like Ainge chose Marvin Bagley at #2 and Doncic went #3. It's not like Danny had picks #5 and #6, needed a PG, took 2 in Ricky Rubio and Jonny Flynn and Steph Curry went #7.

In those cases, throwing the GM under the bus for missing the superstar is understandable. But lamenting missing a guy that half of the league passed on is not some major faux pas. Missing great talent happens all the time when stars are draft after a certain point. The list of Hall of Famers taken after pick #10, for instance is quite long.

[knuckleballer]

Ainge only seems to have his draft misses pointed out.  He could have easily drafted Fultz and Bender rather than Tatum and Brown which plenty of people here were pushing for and who most NBA analysts preferred.

[GreenWarrior]

 While the theme of this thread is kinda stupid, the reality of the fact that ainge's ability to spot talent beyond the high picks is a serious question mark.

As much as I'd like to bash him for the olynyk pick I can't. I had high hopes for him, which is why I've been very critical of him over the years. Because my father in law got me psyched about him as he talked to a spurs scout who told him "if olynyks skills translate to the NBA then the C's got the steal of the draft". And the rest is history.

Anyway the problem with ainge imo is he's afraid to lose when it comes to drafting. Look at all his picks, they're all basically the same player.

Also I'm an old man and my memory is horrible so I need someone to remind me. Who the hell did danny draft in phoenix? I remember them being pretty [dang] good at that time.