Why is Nesmith glued to the bench?

[slamtheking]

Why is Nesmith glued to the bench?

Because the pressure is on and we're limited in the players we can trust and stevens is going to go with guys he knows what he's going to get out of them.


Which goes back to the fact that we should not have been drafting players the past couple seasons.

 Danny strayed from the plan, probably overplayed his hand by wanting way too much in return and now we're sunk because this specific reason.

Is it a fireable offense? I don't know, but I just can't believe he'd be so stupid after all that work in acquiring all those assets, even going so far as to refer to all those draft picks as assets and not pull the trigger???

I don't know if he needs to be fired but he needs to go sit in a corner for a day or two and think about what he's done... Maybe go to bed with no supper.

A great woman once said - "sometimes when you lose you actually win".

It takes two to make a trade. It sometimes takes three in sign and trades when you include the player has the power in those types of trades.

No one traded out of the top 15 picks last year. So there was no consolidation trade to get a higher pick. That seems to be a common critique of Ainge, why he didn't consolidate picks to get higher picks, but those types of trades do not happen very often as teams would rather have one top 10 pick than 3 picks from 14 and lower

The same thing happened the year he grabbed Yabusele and Zizic. Danny didn't want those picks but couldn't find takers and had a roster crunch due to the number of guaranteed contracts on the team.

I have no problem being critical of picks and trades Danny does make, but it's hard to criticize trades he didn't make as we are clueless if:

A.) They were even available to make

Prime example: the 2020 draft consolidation trade to move up from #14. No one trade down in the top 15. The trade most likely simply was not there.

B.) We don't know if they will even work.

Prime examples of B: Hayward was that offseason's best free agent and Danny landed him. Great signing. 5 minutes into the first season with Hayward, he snaps his leg and suddenly that signing looks terrible given the team lost prime Gordo for 2 years.

Another. Danny pulls off the trade for Kyrie. Trade looks brilliant, especially that first year. Then Kyrie returned to being head case Kyrie and then 2018-19 happens, Kyrie leaves in free agency and the trade looks terrible.

Ok I think you're missing the point.

We should not have been participating in the past 2 drafts. Weather it was moving up or not. We should not be concerning ourselves with so and so panning out - we're past that point.

If that meant at worst rolling the picks over every yr. then so be it.

This started when we didn't move rozier at the deadline. We should have been looking to move him and any number of picks for either veterans or 2030 draft picks.

The very last thing we should be doing at this point is drafting guys to play them.

Danny painted us into a corner and now the only option is to rely on the draft and the players we pick.

Bad, bad, bad roster and asset management.

to be clear, you're a fan of that trade of the pick that ended up being Bane this year?  that's an example of what you're advocating.  I think you'd be in the minority if you think that was what Danny should have done.

No crap I'm in the minority!

And no matter how much you guys want to bicker about "could've, should've taken this guy" keep in mind that was not the plan!

Danny never intended to use these picks that you guys are obsessed with. He referred to all those draft picks as assets.

So yeah it would've been me and danny sitting here worrying about weather we could get the 1 or 2 spot in the east with the veteran role players we acquired through all those assets.

 Instead we're sitting here wondering if we're even going to make the playoffs because we don't know what we got surrounding brown and tatum.

All because Danny didn't stick to the plan!

I have no issue with Danny drafting with the picks or trading the picks to improve the team. 

what I have a concern with is people thinking Danny can just "roll over the picks".  as we saw again in this recent draft, that's much easier said than done.  Danny was only able to get two future seconds in exchange for a first this year.  That's not getting a decent player with that pick this year nor using it in a trade to get a player already in the NBA.   I think that's worthy of criticism of the asset management.

[slamtheking]

Why is Nesmith glued to the bench?

Because the pressure is on and we're limited in the players we can trust and stevens is going to go with guys he knows what he's going to get out of them.


Which goes back to the fact that we should not have been drafting players the past couple seasons.

 Danny strayed from the plan, probably overplayed his hand by wanting way too much in return and now we're sunk because this specific reason.

Is it a fireable offense? I don't know, but I just can't believe he'd be so stupid after all that work in acquiring all those assets, even going so far as to refer to all those draft picks as assets and not pull the trigger???

I don't know if he needs to be fired but he needs to go sit in a corner for a day or two and think about what he's done... Maybe go to bed with no supper.

A great woman once said - "sometimes when you lose you actually win".

It takes two to make a trade. It sometimes takes three in sign and trades when you include the player has the power in those types of trades.

No one traded out of the top 15 picks last year. So there was no consolidation trade to get a higher pick. That seems to be a common critique of Ainge, why he didn't consolidate picks to get higher picks, but those types of trades do not happen very often as teams would rather have one top 10 pick than 3 picks from 14 and lower

The same thing happened the year he grabbed Yabusele and Zizic. Danny didn't want those picks but couldn't find takers and had a roster crunch due to the number of guaranteed contracts on the team.

I have no problem being critical of picks and trades Danny does make, but it's hard to criticize trades he didn't make as we are clueless if:

A.) They were even available to make

Prime example: the 2020 draft consolidation trade to move up from #14. No one trade down in the top 15. The trade most likely simply was not there.

B.) We don't know if they will even work.

Prime examples of B: Hayward was that offseason's best free agent and Danny landed him. Great signing. 5 minutes into the first season with Hayward, he snaps his leg and suddenly that signing looks terrible given the team lost prime Gordo for 2 years.

Another. Danny pulls off the trade for Kyrie. Trade looks brilliant, especially that first year. Then Kyrie returned to being head case Kyrie and then 2018-19 happens, Kyrie leaves in free agency and the trade looks terrible.

Ok I think you're missing the point.

We should not have been participating in the past 2 drafts. Weather it was moving up or not. We should not be concerning ourselves with so and so panning out - we're past that point.

If that meant at worst rolling the picks over every yr. then so be it.

This started when we didn't move rozier at the deadline. We should have been looking to move him and any number of picks for either veterans or 2030 draft picks.

The very last thing we should be doing at this point is drafting guys to play them.

Danny painted us into a corner and now the only option is to rely on the draft and the players we pick.

Bad, bad, bad roster and asset management.

to be clear, you're a fan of that trade of the pick that ended up being Bane this year?  that's an example of what you're advocating.  I think you'd be in the minority if you think that was what Danny should have done.

Also yup!

(Can't even believe I have to explain this, but) plain n simple hindsight is 20/20.

If you go into a draft with high expectations of anyone out of the top 2 picks you're setting yourself up for failure.

No one saw giannis being the player he is, if they had he would have went 1 overall. But if you're banking on finding that in every draft that's a hard way to live.

also, nope.  you're way off base on interpreting my comment. 

my expectation, as most people would also expect, is for Danny to maximize the return on the assets he accumulated.  for draft picks, that can be picking BPA or using in a trade.  there's no expectations of the players he drafts other than him doing his due diligence to pick someone who's the best of whoever's left on the board.  wasting assets like giving away the pick that became Bane this year or being painted into a corner by having too many picks in a draft and being forced into taking 2 draft and stash players instead of picking the best players left on the board. 

[GreenWarrior]

Why is Nesmith glued to the bench?

Because the pressure is on and we're limited in the players we can trust and stevens is going to go with guys he knows what he's going to get out of them.


Which goes back to the fact that we should not have been drafting players the past couple seasons.

 Danny strayed from the plan, probably overplayed his hand by wanting way too much in return and now we're sunk because this specific reason.

Is it a fireable offense? I don't know, but I just can't believe he'd be so stupid after all that work in acquiring all those assets, even going so far as to refer to all those draft picks as assets and not pull the trigger???

I don't know if he needs to be fired but he needs to go sit in a corner for a day or two and think about what he's done... Maybe go to bed with no supper.

A great woman once said - "sometimes when you lose you actually win".

It takes two to make a trade. It sometimes takes three in sign and trades when you include the player has the power in those types of trades.

No one traded out of the top 15 picks last year. So there was no consolidation trade to get a higher pick. That seems to be a common critique of Ainge, why he didn't consolidate picks to get higher picks, but those types of trades do not happen very often as teams would rather have one top 10 pick than 3 picks from 14 and lower

The same thing happened the year he grabbed Yabusele and Zizic. Danny didn't want those picks but couldn't find takers and had a roster crunch due to the number of guaranteed contracts on the team.

I have no problem being critical of picks and trades Danny does make, but it's hard to criticize trades he didn't make as we are clueless if:

A.) They were even available to make

Prime example: the 2020 draft consolidation trade to move up from #14. No one trade down in the top 15. The trade most likely simply was not there.

B.) We don't know if they will even work.

Prime examples of B: Hayward was that offseason's best free agent and Danny landed him. Great signing. 5 minutes into the first season with Hayward, he snaps his leg and suddenly that signing looks terrible given the team lost prime Gordo for 2 years.

Another. Danny pulls off the trade for Kyrie. Trade looks brilliant, especially that first year. Then Kyrie returned to being head case Kyrie and then 2018-19 happens, Kyrie leaves in free agency and the trade looks terrible.

Ok I think you're missing the point.

We should not have been participating in the past 2 drafts. Weather it was moving up or not. We should not be concerning ourselves with so and so panning out - we're past that point.

If that meant at worst rolling the picks over every yr. then so be it.

This started when we didn't move rozier at the deadline. We should have been looking to move him and any number of picks for either veterans or 2030 draft picks.

The very last thing we should be doing at this point is drafting guys to play them.

Danny painted us into a corner and now the only option is to rely on the draft and the players we pick.

Bad, bad, bad roster and asset management.

to be clear, you're a fan of that trade of the pick that ended up being Bane this year?  that's an example of what you're advocating.  I think you'd be in the minority if you think that was what Danny should have done.

No crap I'm in the minority!

And no matter how much you guys want to bicker about "could've, should've taken this guy" keep in mind that was not the plan!

Danny never intended to use these picks that you guys are obsessed with. He referred to all those draft picks as assets.

So yeah it would've been me and danny sitting here worrying about weather we could get the 1 or 2 spot in the east with the veteran role players we acquired through all those assets.

 Instead we're sitting here wondering if we're even going to make the playoffs because we don't know what we got surrounding brown and tatum.

All because Danny didn't stick to the plan!

I have no issue with Danny drafting with the picks or trading the picks to improve the team. 

what I have a concern with is people thinking Danny can just "roll over the picks".  as we saw again in this recent draft, that's much easier said than done.  Danny was only able to get two future seconds in exchange for a first this year.  That's not getting a decent player with that pick this year nor using it in a trade to get a player already in the NBA.   I think that's worthy of criticism of the asset management.

Of course it's not the best option to get 50 cents on the dollar. He shouldn't have put himself in that position.

And that's the thing most of you are overlooking. The sheer number of draft picks we had outnumber the roster spots we have available.

So.... Doing the math his only options were draft n stash or trade. He didn't really do much of that.

He painted himself into a corner.

[jambr380]

Trading current picks to get into future drafts is one thing, but I found it telling that a team like the Suns - who took Jalen freaking Smith at #10 - would not trade down with the Cs. We heard over and over about the Cs trying to move up, but why wouldn't the Suns (who we have a strong relationship with) trade down when they could easily get Smith at 14? Were we not offering enough? It hurts more knowing how much all of us wanted Haliburton, but I guess there are no guarantees we would have taken him anyway.

[NKY fan]

Trading current picks to get into future drafts is one thing, but I found it telling that a team like the Suns - who took Jalen freaking Smith at #10 - would not trade down with the Cs. We heard over and over about the Cs trying to move up, but why wouldn't the Suns (who we have a strong relationship with) trade down when they could easily get Smith at 14? Were we not offering enough? It hurts more knowing how much all of us wanted Haliburton, but I guess there are no guarantees we would have taken him anyway.

we have heard stories about how much Danny liked Herro and now Haliburton. I think he had evaluated their expected draft position to be around where we picked and he was hoping that they will just not be picked a couple slot before ours. I would think he didn't trade up because he doesn't want to overpay by overshooting a few slots.. for instance:
He wanted to trade up to 12 from 14 when Kings were picking but they refused ... while it is possible that the only available trade up was to WAS and pick #8... (I had read articles on that on bulletsforever blog) ..... but that would have cost "too much" for Danny.
Another possibility is that the Suns trade up to 10 (before the draft) was available but again Danny thought it would cost too much for someone that is expected to go in the (12-14) range...
It is a game theory that our FO has not been that great at the last few years because we ended up with 6 1st rd picks in 2 drafts and some of those we were forced to be drafted...

[footey]

Trading current picks to get into future drafts is one thing, but I found it telling that a team like the Suns - who took Jalen freaking Smith at #10 - would not trade down with the Cs. We heard over and over about the Cs trying to move up, but why wouldn't the Suns (who we have a strong relationship with) trade down when they could easily get Smith at 14? Were we not offering enough? It hurts more knowing how much all of us wanted Haliburton, but I guess there are no guarantees we would have taken him anyway.

we have heard stories about how much Danny liked Herro and now Haliburton. I think he had evaluated their expected draft position to be around where we picked and he was hoping that they will just not be picked a couple slot before ours. I would think he didn't trade up because he doesn't want to overpay by overshooting a few slots.. for instance:
He wanted to trade up to 12 from 14 when Kings were picking but they refused ... while it is possible that the only available trade up was to WAS and pick #8... (I had read articles on that on bulletsforever blog) ..... but that would have cost "too much" for Danny.
Another possibility is that the Suns trade up to 10 (before the draft) was available but again Danny thought it would cost too much for someone that is expected to go in the (12-14) range...
It is a game theory that our FO has not been that great at the last few years because we ended up with 6 1st rd picks in 2 drafts and some of those we were forced to be drafted...

This may have been true re Herro, but not Haliburton. Haliburton was projected to anywhere from top 5 to top 8; no one saw him slipping to 12.  So I  don't think Danny expected, entering the draft, that Haliburton could drop to us at 14. I do think he thought Tyler Herro would.

[slamtheking]

Why is Nesmith glued to the bench?

Because the pressure is on and we're limited in the players we can trust and stevens is going to go with guys he knows what he's going to get out of them.


Which goes back to the fact that we should not have been drafting players the past couple seasons.

 Danny strayed from the plan, probably overplayed his hand by wanting way too much in return and now we're sunk because this specific reason.

Is it a fireable offense? I don't know, but I just can't believe he'd be so stupid after all that work in acquiring all those assets, even going so far as to refer to all those draft picks as assets and not pull the trigger???

I don't know if he needs to be fired but he needs to go sit in a corner for a day or two and think about what he's done... Maybe go to bed with no supper.

A great woman once said - "sometimes when you lose you actually win".

It takes two to make a trade. It sometimes takes three in sign and trades when you include the player has the power in those types of trades.

No one traded out of the top 15 picks last year. So there was no consolidation trade to get a higher pick. That seems to be a common critique of Ainge, why he didn't consolidate picks to get higher picks, but those types of trades do not happen very often as teams would rather have one top 10 pick than 3 picks from 14 and lower

The same thing happened the year he grabbed Yabusele and Zizic. Danny didn't want those picks but couldn't find takers and had a roster crunch due to the number of guaranteed contracts on the team.

I have no problem being critical of picks and trades Danny does make, but it's hard to criticize trades he didn't make as we are clueless if:

A.) They were even available to make

Prime example: the 2020 draft consolidation trade to move up from #14. No one trade down in the top 15. The trade most likely simply was not there.

B.) We don't know if they will even work.

Prime examples of B: Hayward was that offseason's best free agent and Danny landed him. Great signing. 5 minutes into the first season with Hayward, he snaps his leg and suddenly that signing looks terrible given the team lost prime Gordo for 2 years.

Another. Danny pulls off the trade for Kyrie. Trade looks brilliant, especially that first year. Then Kyrie returned to being head case Kyrie and then 2018-19 happens, Kyrie leaves in free agency and the trade looks terrible.

Ok I think you're missing the point.

We should not have been participating in the past 2 drafts. Weather it was moving up or not. We should not be concerning ourselves with so and so panning out - we're past that point.

If that meant at worst rolling the picks over every yr. then so be it.

This started when we didn't move rozier at the deadline. We should have been looking to move him and any number of picks for either veterans or 2030 draft picks.

The very last thing we should be doing at this point is drafting guys to play them.

Danny painted us into a corner and now the only option is to rely on the draft and the players we pick.

Bad, bad, bad roster and asset management.

to be clear, you're a fan of that trade of the pick that ended up being Bane this year?  that's an example of what you're advocating.  I think you'd be in the minority if you think that was what Danny should have done.

No crap I'm in the minority!

And no matter how much you guys want to bicker about "could've, should've taken this guy" keep in mind that was not the plan!

Danny never intended to use these picks that you guys are obsessed with. He referred to all those draft picks as assets.

So yeah it would've been me and danny sitting here worrying about weather we could get the 1 or 2 spot in the east with the veteran role players we acquired through all those assets.

 Instead we're sitting here wondering if we're even going to make the playoffs because we don't know what we got surrounding brown and tatum.

All because Danny didn't stick to the plan!

I have no issue with Danny drafting with the picks or trading the picks to improve the team. 

what I have a concern with is people thinking Danny can just "roll over the picks".  as we saw again in this recent draft, that's much easier said than done.  Danny was only able to get two future seconds in exchange for a first this year.  That's not getting a decent player with that pick this year nor using it in a trade to get a player already in the NBA.   I think that's worthy of criticism of the asset management.

Of course it's not the best option to get 50 cents on the dollar. He shouldn't have put himself in that position.

And that's the thing most of you are overlooking. The sheer number of draft picks we had outnumber the roster spots we have available.

So.... Doing the math his only options were draft n stash or trade. He didn't really do much of that.

He painted himself into a corner.

I think that's where we (and many here) are in agreement.  He did a really good acquiring assets to improve this team.  What he did with those assets is open to critique.

[todd_days_41]

.... because he's not a good player (yet, hopefully)?

[Somebody]

.... because he's not a good player (yet, hopefully)?

Are you questioning the eye tests of posters who decree that his energy and hustle gives us massive defensive value on the perimeter? Blasphemy!

[todd_days_41]

.... because he's not a good player (yet, hopefully)?

Are you questioning the eye tests of posters who decree that his energy and hustle gives us massive defensive value on the perimeter? Blasphemy!

I struggle to understand why people though Nesmith would be good right away. He averaged 11ppg as a Freshman at Vandy. He only played in 14 games as a sophomore. Ray Allen -- he is not. It's gonna take time for him materialize.

He's either not good, or not good yet. It's pretty simple.

[Somebody]

.... because he's not a good player (yet, hopefully)?

Are you questioning the eye tests of posters who decree that his energy and hustle gives us massive defensive value on the perimeter? Blasphemy!

I struggle to understand why people though Nesmith would be good right away. He averaged 11ppg as a Freshman at Vandy. He only played in 14 games as a sophomore. Ray Allen -- he is not. It's gonna take time for him materialize.

He's either not good, or not good yet. It's pretty simple.

I struggle to understand that as well, but apparently they're the only ones watching the games

[Smartacus]

.... because he's not a good player (yet, hopefully)?

Are you questioning the eye tests of posters who decree that his energy and hustle gives us massive defensive value on the perimeter? Blasphemy!

I struggle to understand why people though Nesmith would be good right away. He averaged 11ppg as a Freshman at Vandy. He only played in 14 games as a sophomore. Ray Allen -- he is not. It's gonna take time for him materialize.

He's either not good, or not good yet. It's pretty simple.

I struggle to understand that as well, but apparently they're the only ones watching the games

I like Nesmith, think he's a fine prospect, but I do think people were way overselling the immediate returns. My eye test sees a player that is running around without a real sense of himself.

Is the fully realized version of Nesmith going to attempt chase down blocks often? Not likely. So why does it feel like he's trying to pin one against the backboard every time I see him play? I'd rather see him keeping solid position and locking down his matchup than chasing highlights.

I see a rookie out there and there's nothing wrong with that.

He's young, nervous, watching Pritchard have immediate success and is trying to force his way into the rotation.

Ideally he'd be lighting up Maine right now and we'd see him next year.

[todd_days_41]

.... because he's not a good player (yet, hopefully)?

Are you questioning the eye tests of posters who decree that his energy and hustle gives us massive defensive value on the perimeter? Blasphemy!

I struggle to understand why people though Nesmith would be good right away. He averaged 11ppg as a Freshman at Vandy. He only played in 14 games as a sophomore. Ray Allen -- he is not. It's gonna take time for him materialize.

He's either not good, or not good yet. It's pretty simple.

I struggle to understand that as well, but apparently they're the only ones watching the games

I like Nesmith, think he's a fine prospect, but I do think people were way overselling the immediate returns. My eye test sees a player that is running around without a real sense of himself.

Is the fully realized version of Nesmith going to attempt chase down blocks often? Not likely. So why does it feel like he's trying to pin one against the backboard every time I see him play? I'd rather see him keeping solid position and locking down his matchup than chasing highlights.

I see a rookie out there and there's nothing wrong with that.

He's young, nervous, watching Pritchard have immediate success and is trying to force his way into the rotation.

Ideally he'd be lighting up Maine right now and we'd see him next year.

Pretty well put. He's inexperienced, had no training camp, doesn't know the game well enough yet. He should ride pine until he's ready (like my man Rob Williams did). At least he's not made of glass like Langford.

[Somebody]

.... because he's not a good player (yet, hopefully)?

Are you questioning the eye tests of posters who decree that his energy and hustle gives us massive defensive value on the perimeter? Blasphemy!

I struggle to understand why people though Nesmith would be good right away. He averaged 11ppg as a Freshman at Vandy. He only played in 14 games as a sophomore. Ray Allen -- he is not. It's gonna take time for him materialize.

He's either not good, or not good yet. It's pretty simple.

I struggle to understand that as well, but apparently they're the only ones watching the games

I like Nesmith, think he's a fine prospect, but I do think people were way overselling the immediate returns. My eye test sees a player that is running around without a real sense of himself.

Is the fully realized version of Nesmith going to attempt chase down blocks often? Not likely. So why does it feel like he's trying to pin one against the backboard every time I see him play? I'd rather see him keeping solid position and locking down his matchup than chasing highlights.

I see a rookie out there and there's nothing wrong with that.

He's young, nervous, watching Pritchard have immediate success and is trying to force his way into the rotation.

Ideally he'd be lighting up Maine right now and we'd see him next year.

This is exactly what I think of his defence, he looks busy and people confuse that for quality.

[gift]

Nesmith still has no clue what he's doing out there (other than when Brad calls a play for him, he seems very comfortable in those limited situations). But he's hustling and engaged and finding a way to contribute where he can, which I see as a sign that he will eventually get it.