Are we waiting for a version of Kemba that doesn’t exist?

[Boise To Boston]

Perk mentioned yesterday that Kemba is a Volume scorer. IE age needs a lot of shots to get going. When he doesn’t get that volume he doesn’t get in a rhythm, and his production suffers. And we see just that - lower FG% over the last two years than we saw in his recent Charlotte history.
But the other thing we need to consider - even if he does get his shooting back to his Charlotte levels- will that be enough?  This is a guy how never shot better than 45% in his career (for his career he’s under 42%). He was most often low 40’s. This is a guy who never hit 39% of his threes - was generally closer to 35%. As a playmaker, this is a guy who never averaged 6 assists per game.
I don’t know at this point what we actually want out of Kemba - an efficient third-option shooter?  A facilitator?  A floor-stretcher?  What ever it is - I don’t think Kemba is that guy. If we have room on our team for a volume scorer, most likely off the bench, then there is room for Kemba. If not?   I just think we are waiting for Kemba to become a version of himself that will never exist.

In my opinion, if he has ANY trade value at all we need to cut him loose. Take 4 quarters for our dollar. Gain trade-able contracts that won’t kill our cap for years to come. I just don’t see a scenario where he ends up working for us. There is no evidence that he has the ability to score efficiently.

[Tr1boy]

Perk mentioned yesterday that Kemba is a Volume scorer. IE age needs a lot of shots to get going. When he doesn’t get that volume he doesn’t get in a rhythm, and his production suffers. And we see just that - lower FG% over the last two years than we saw in his recent Charlotte history.
But the other thing we need to consider - even if he does get his shooting back to his Charlotte levels- will that be enough?  This is a guy how never shot better than 45% in his career (for his career he’s under 42%). He was most often low 40’s. This is a guy who never hit 39% of his threes - was generally closer to 35%. As a playmaker, this is a guy who never averaged 6 assists per game.
I don’t know at this point what we actually want out of Kemba - an efficient third-option shooter?  A facilitator?  A floor-stretcher?  What ever it is - I don’t think Kemba is that guy. If we have room on our team for a volume scorer, most likely off the bench, then there is room for Kemba. If not?   I just think we are waiting for Kemba to become a version of himself that will never exist.

In my opinion, if he has ANY trade value at all we need to cut him loose. Take 4 quarters for our dollar. Gain trade-able contracts that won’t kill our cap for years to come. I just don’t see a scenario where he ends up working for us. There is no evidence that he has the ability to score efficiently.

negative trade value right now

you couldn't get a team to take him and his massive contract for free at this time

[Boise To Boston]

Perk mentioned yesterday that Kemba is a Volume scorer. IE age needs a lot of shots to get going. When he doesn’t get that volume he doesn’t get in a rhythm, and his production suffers. And we see just that - lower FG% over the last two years than we saw in his recent Charlotte history.
But the other thing we need to consider - even if he does get his shooting back to his Charlotte levels- will that be enough?  This is a guy how never shot better than 45% in his career (for his career he’s under 42%). He was most often low 40’s. This is a guy who never hit 39% of his threes - was generally closer to 35%. As a playmaker, this is a guy who never averaged 6 assists per game.
I don’t know at this point what we actually want out of Kemba - an efficient third-option shooter?  A facilitator?  A floor-stretcher?  What ever it is - I don’t think Kemba is that guy. If we have room on our team for a volume scorer, most likely off the bench, then there is room for Kemba. If not?   I just think we are waiting for Kemba to become a version of himself that will never exist.

In my opinion, if he has ANY trade value at all we need to cut him loose. Take 4 quarters for our dollar. Gain trade-able contracts that won’t kill our cap for years to come. I just don’t see a scenario where he ends up working for us. There is no evidence that he has the ability to score efficiently.

negative trade value right now

you couldn't get a team to take him and his massive contract for free at this time

I agree. Great point. TP on you. He has negative trade value in my book as well.  I’d gladly give a first to be rid of him. I feel like there has to be one desperate team out there who thinks they can “fix” him, but I’m probably wrong.

[Tr1boy]

Perk mentioned yesterday that Kemba is a Volume scorer. IE age needs a lot of shots to get going. When he doesn’t get that volume he doesn’t get in a rhythm, and his production suffers. And we see just that - lower FG% over the last two years than we saw in his recent Charlotte history.
But the other thing we need to consider - even if he does get his shooting back to his Charlotte levels- will that be enough?  This is a guy how never shot better than 45% in his career (for his career he’s under 42%). He was most often low 40’s. This is a guy who never hit 39% of his threes - was generally closer to 35%. As a playmaker, this is a guy who never averaged 6 assists per game.
I don’t know at this point what we actually want out of Kemba - an efficient third-option shooter?  A facilitator?  A floor-stretcher?  What ever it is - I don’t think Kemba is that guy. If we have room on our team for a volume scorer, most likely off the bench, then there is room for Kemba. If not?   I just think we are waiting for Kemba to become a version of himself that will never exist.

In my opinion, if he has ANY trade value at all we need to cut him loose. Take 4 quarters for our dollar. Gain trade-able contracts that won’t kill our cap for years to come. I just don’t see a scenario where he ends up working for us. There is no evidence that he has the ability to score efficiently.

negative trade value right now

you couldn't get a team to take him and his massive contract for free at this time

I agree. Great point. TP on you. He has negative trade value in my book as well.  I’d gladly give a first to be rid of him. I feel like there has to be one desperate team out there who thinks they can “fix” him, but I’m probably wrong.

I'm afraid you might be

Not 1 to 1 same situation.  But look at IT4.  He told everyone he was back.  He is willing to take dirt cheap minimum 10 day contract

No takers

[tstorey_97]

Management has to get it straightened out. It's fine that he needs more than 10 games to get it going again, but, I think he'd be better getting the minutes they're giving him off the bench.

Of course, after saying this, he'll light some team up for 34 points, but right now? Have him come in with the bench and play off the ball with someone else at point.

Maybe the bench would help him get it going. Belichick left Cam Newton in the game and got a better draft pick....this team isn't going for draft picks.

If you look at the numbers for this season, it's rough. He doesn't want to go inside so he isn't getting free throws 2.2FTA vs 4.7FTA.
And of course his shooting percentages are way off.

Every player has struggles, but the team has to keep on while he figures it out.
 

[wdleehi]

One of the worst possible points to try and trade him. 


Give him time.   Give the whole team some time. 

[Boise To Boston]

One of the worst possible points to try and trade him. 


Give him time.   Give the whole team some time.

What do you expect him to become?  He’s a career 41% FG and 35% 3P shooter. He’s never been a GREAT shooter. What evidence is there that he’ll ever be what Boston needs him to be?  I honestly think we might be better off with washed JJ Reddick than Kemba at this point. He was an inefficient good-state-bad-team guy that we thought would come in and become more efficient. It went the other way, and there is no evidence that our hopes were founded in reality.

[wdleehi]

One of the worst possible points to try and trade him. 


Give him time.   Give the whole team some time.

What do you expect him to become?  He’s a career 41% FG and 35% 3P shooter. He’s never been a GREAT shooter. What evidence is there that he’ll ever be what Boston needs him to be?  I honestly think we might be better off with washed JJ Reddick than Kemba at this point. He was an inefficient good-state-bad-team guy that we thought would come in and become more efficient. It went the other way, and there is no evidence that our hopes were founded in reality.

Reality?   You just suggested wanting an older, more one dimensional player who can't do that dimension any more.


Meanwhile, when Kemba starts hitting his shots again, is a near all-star level player. 

[Indocelts]

The issue is actually far deeper than Kemba. Our talent roster is not constructed to win against the true contenders like the Lakers, Jazz, or Bucks.

Outside of Tatum and Brown, our players are inefficient. When shooting high volume, Kemba and Smart are not efficient. And so are our bench.

And most importantly, our  centers will always be abused by bonafide centers. During playoffs our weakness will be exposed and we will never get banner 18 with our current centers.

So we need to fix our PG and Center, and improve our bench. But with the way DA always prioritized wings over center the last 10 years, I doubt that we will have this fixed anytime soon.

[apc]

Kemba = Carmelo, should have the same role. Scorer off the bench.

[tonydelk]

The issue is actually far deeper than Kemba. Our talent roster is not constructed to win against the true contenders like the Lakers, Jazz, or Bucks.

Outside of Tatum and Brown, our players are inefficient. When shooting high volume, Kemba and Smart are not efficient. And so are our bench.

And most importantly, our  centers will always be abused by bonafide centers. During playoffs our weakness will be exposed and we will never get banner 18 with our current centers.

So we need to fix our PG and Center, and improve our bench. But with the way DA always prioritized wings over center the last 10 years, I doubt that we will have this fixed anytime soon.

I honestly would like to see Timelord getting more minutes with Theis backing him up.  Kemba really seems lost right now.  He's getting his shots but can't hit the broad side of a barn.  He's also struggling going to the hoop as well.  I'm really hoping it's just a matter of playing himself back into shape.  He's been resting for months.  This team needs bench scoring.  We were hoping Nesmith and Romeo could help but it seems Romeo won't be playing anytime soon and Brand won't let Nesmith learn by making mistakes on the court.  I mean the team is losing.  Is Nesmith going to affect that losing that much more or is he going to help in the long term by getting immediate PT.  I think sitting him is a mistake.  This teams roster is once again poorly constructed.  The bench is weak and we need a big who can shoot and a wing who can shoot.  Joe Ingles lit the C's up yesterday.  The Jazz spacing is so good because they have 4 floor spacers with Gobert who can protect the rim, get offensive rebounds and can be dominant in the PNR.  The C's are trying to build a team like this but don't have the shooter and don't move the ball.  They have three guys who play so much Iso and dominate the ball.  I can see what frustrated Hayward.  Move the ball, get open shots. 

[johnnygreen]

I find it amazing that Donavon Mitchell and Kemba Walker are both 6’0” tall. Mitchell plays like he is 6’5” and is not intimidated by anyone. However, Kemba plays like he knows he’s small and doesn’t know how to play amongst the trees.

I can’t see Kemba accepting a role off the bench, or Brad even suggesting it. I would suggest making Kemba the shooting guard and playing off the ball. Help set screens for him, so he can get open/clean looks. He is not as explosive as he once was, and can’t get to his spots like he used to. He needs to adjust his game accordingly. No one is taking on his contract, so the Celtics have to figure out how to make this work.

[footey]

I find it amazing that Donavon Mitchell and Kemba Walker are both 6’0” tall. Mitchell plays like he is 6’5” and is not intimidated by anyone. However, Kemba plays like he knows he’s small and doesn’t know how to play amongst the trees.

I can’t see Kemba accepting a role off the bench, or Brad even suggesting it. I would suggest making Kemba the shooting guard and playing off the ball. Help set screens for him, so he can get open/clean looks. He is not as explosive as he once was, and can’t get to his spots like he used to. He needs to adjust his game accordingly. No one is taking on his contract, so the Celtics have to figure out how to make this work.

Donovan's official height is 6'1" but you make a great point. It goes to show you how much Kemba has been hampered since the knee.

[Celtics2021]

First time poster, but been lurking for a while.  I'm not sure why this is the thread that has triggered me to post, but I just want to say that the overreaction in threads like this is... difficult to understand.  It's clear that the best version of this Celtics team will be to get Kemba playing like he did before the All-Star break last year, when he was a deserving starter averaging 22 points and 5 assists a game with an efficient (given his volume) 58 TS%.  We saw a bit of that Kemba through the first bit of the playoffs last year, but the overtime game against Toronto seemed to drain him, as through those first 7 games he average 23 and 4.5 with similar efficiency, before dropping to 17 points at far worse shooting percentages for the rest of the postseason.

It's clear Kemba was significantly injured for the end of last season, and that it recurred in the playoffs, given his offseason operation and delayed start to this year.  Certainly the Celtics should try to help Kemba return to that version, which we saw for three months barely a year ago, for a lot longer than 10 or so games.  This is especially true when 7 of them have been played on the road, which likely impacts the level of conditioning and off-day work Kemba can do, since the players pretty much aren't supposed to leave the hotel when they travel any more.

Will some facsimile of last year's Kemba ultimately return?  That's an open question, but there is zero reason to take any drastic measures at this juncture, such as trading him for role players or moving him to the bench.  Let him get his personal rhythm, let him get a rhythm with this improved version of the J's.  No one even knows the schedule beyond the next 11 games -- what is the hurry with posters here?

[obnoxiousmime]

I find it amazing that Donavon Mitchell and Kemba Walker are both 6’0” tall. Mitchell plays like he is 6’5” and is not intimidated by anyone. However, Kemba plays like he knows he’s small and doesn’t know how to play amongst the trees.

I can’t see Kemba accepting a role off the bench, or Brad even suggesting it. I would suggest making Kemba the shooting guard and playing off the ball. Help set screens for him, so he can get open/clean looks. He is not as explosive as he once was, and can’t get to his spots like he used to. He needs to adjust his game accordingly. No one is taking on his contract, so the Celtics have to figure out how to make this work.

Donovan's official height is 6'1" but you make a great point. It goes to show you how much Kemba has been hampered since the knee.

Mitchell is known for having a wingspan (6'10'') that is much greater than average for someone his height. Kemba's wingspan is only 6'4''. Mitchell is also has a much bigger body compared to Kemba (216 lbs vs. 184 lbs), making it easier for him to use his size to his advantage. You can't only look at height.