Author Topic: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball  (Read 6833 times)

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Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2021, 04:47:38 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The problem is Smart is being asked to do too much given all the injuries and absences, leading him to have to do things on a larger, full-time basis that he’s not capable of doing.

I expect him to get back to his usual ways now that we are starting to get guys back in Kemba and Tatum.
See, this makes sense. People are all crazy because Smart is taking to many shots, trying to create his own offense and ball handling too much.

But with Kemba out for 10 games and on a minutes restriction upon his return and Tatum missing the next three games, Smart is the team's third option. He has often been the first option when playing with the bench.

Thing is, Smart, when starting, plays best as a 4th offensive option, where he can put most of his energy into playing defense, distributing and taking open shots. When playing with the bench he is best as as a second or third option on the offensive side.

Once the team is healthy and they can recreate the chemistry from last year, I think we will see a better balanced Marcus Smart.
Smart is taking 0.3 more shots a game this year as opposed to last year.  His 3PT attempts are actually down 0.8 per game.  In other words, Smart isn't shooting more.  And sure his 3 point percentage is down this year, but it is still above his career average so he is more just regressing to the mean.

The simple truth is Smart just isn't a very smart offensive player.  He never has been and pretty clearly never will be.

So how can you look at those stats and conclude that he's not a smart offensive player and never will be? I hope you're this definitive with other teams.
Because he is shooting around 6 3's a game and is a career 31.8% shooter.  He is only a career 43.2% from 2 PT range.  Any shot Marcus Smart takes is a bad shot.  Now to keep teams honest he has to take some, but he should be shooting no more than like 3 3's a game and should probably be in that range for his 2PT attempts as well.  6 shots a game from Smart would go a long way to improving his value.  He go from around 1.5 points per 100 possessions in the positive (for his career) up into the 4 or 5 range if he just let the better shooters on the floor actually shoot the ball more.
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Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2021, 05:50:59 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The problem is Smart is being asked to do too much given all the injuries and absences, leading him to have to do things on a larger, full-time basis that he’s not capable of doing.

I expect him to get back to his usual ways now that we are starting to get guys back in Kemba and Tatum.
See, this makes sense. People are all crazy because Smart is taking to many shots, trying to create his own offense and ball handling too much.

But with Kemba out for 10 games and on a minutes restriction upon his return and Tatum missing the next three games, Smart is the team's third option. He has often been the first option when playing with the bench.

Thing is, Smart, when starting, plays best as a 4th offensive option, where he can put most of his energy into playing defense, distributing and taking open shots. When playing with the bench he is best as as a second or third option on the offensive side.

Once the team is healthy and they can recreate the chemistry from last year, I think we will see a better balanced Marcus Smart.
Smart is taking 0.3 more shots a game this year as opposed to last year.  His 3PT attempts are actually down 0.8 per game.  In other words, Smart isn't shooting more.  And sure his 3 point percentage is down this year, but it is still above his career average so he is more just regressing to the mean.

The simple truth is Smart just isn't a very smart offensive player.  He never has been and pretty clearly never will be.
So far this year, Smart has been this team's #3 overall offensive option. And when he plays with the bench, he is, at times, the #1 option.

Last year, he was the team's overall 5th offensive option and, at best during various games, when playing with the bench the #2 option but also, he played a ton of minutes as the #3 option during bench minutes because Stevens played him a lot with two of Jaylen, Tatum, Hayward and Kemba.

So same amount of shots or not, he has had to play a different role offensively.

Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2021, 12:39:14 AM »

Offline Spicoli

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I'm sorry he is not a good basketball player. He has very low IQ (shot selection, committing dumb fouls etc) and other than the occasional steal/charge he brings nothing to the table. If i were Ainge i would trade this guy for anyone. Addition by subtraction. I've had enough of him in a Celtics uniform. I'm posting this the day after he supposedly had a "good game" as well.

You categorize first team all defense as "the occasional steal/charge"?

What does first team all defense even mean? The eye test tells me that he cannot lock down a hot player on the opposing team when we absolutely positively need him to. So then what else is he getting accolades for besides hustling, drawing charges, and getting steals?

Hustling ,drawing charges ,and getting steals are all hugely valuable defensive contributions.


What players around the league "lock down" opposing scorers on a regular basis?  I feel like you just don't really see that anymore.  The way they call the game and the way teams set up their defense means that great defense is more about teamwork, positioning, and timing to either shepherd guys to less advantageous spots on the floor or force ballhandlers into turnovers.

I agree with you. You don't see that kind of defense anymore in the NBA. So if defenders aren't allowed to play like that and are only allowed to get a few steals and charges which might or might not affect the game in a meaningful way, then what value does Smart actually have since he's an extremely low IQ player on the offensive end? I'm not really seeing his value to this team on offense or defense.

Why is defense such a highly regarded thing even though the NBA won't allow these guys to play any? Why is Stevens giving Smart all these minutes because he's supposedly good on defense yet the Celtics can never stop anybody when it counts?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 12:53:06 AM by Spicoli »

Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2021, 01:50:31 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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I don't know what a defensive role player could do beyond what Smart has done to earn the trust and appreciation of a fan base.  He's got flaws. I don't need to repeat myself again. But I don't get how anyone could hate watching him and I don't understand why he's a goat for some people when the team struggles.

I think we're all a bit spoiled. We went from having KG as the heart and soul of a championship contender, then spent only a single season without an emotional centerpiece to the squad. Smart was drafted just a year after KG got traded.


I sure hope we don't have to spend years after Smart is gone frustrated by the lack of a guy like that setting the tone and making clutch plays. But maybe people need to be reminded that finding guys like that is not so easy. A lot of teams squander seasons with talented rosters that lack an X factor. 


Marcus Smart is going to be making winning plays in crunch time for a NBA championship team someday. I don't know if it'll be the Celtics, but I sure hope so. I'll be rooting for him either way.
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Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2021, 04:10:53 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I'm sorry he is not a good basketball player. He has very low IQ (shot selection, committing dumb fouls etc) and other than the occasional steal/charge he brings nothing to the table. If i were Ainge i would trade this guy for anyone. Addition by subtraction. I've had enough of him in a Celtics uniform. I'm posting this the day after he supposedly had a "good game" as well.

You categorize first team all defense as "the occasional steal/charge"?

What does first team all defense even mean? The eye test tells me that he cannot lock down a hot player on the opposing team when we absolutely positively need him to. So then what else is he getting accolades for besides hustling, drawing charges, and getting steals?

Hustling ,drawing charges ,and getting steals are all hugely valuable defensive contributions.


What players around the league "lock down" opposing scorers on a regular basis?  I feel like you just don't really see that anymore.  The way they call the game and the way teams set up their defense means that great defense is more about teamwork, positioning, and timing to either shepherd guys to less advantageous spots on the floor or force ballhandlers into turnovers.
I agree with you. You don't see that kind of defense anymore in the NBA. So if defenders aren't allowed to play like that and are only allowed to get a few steals and charges which might or might not affect the game in a meaningful way, then what value does Smart actually have since he's an extremely low IQ player on the offensive end? I'm not really seeing his value to this team on offense or defense.

Why is defense such a highly regarded thing even though the NBA won't allow these guys to play any? Why is Stevens giving Smart all these minutes because he's supposedly good on defense yet the Celtics can never stop anybody when it counts?
Aaaaand man defence was never the main driving force of high impact defenders in league history, the best defenders ever were elite team defenders who do the things that your post derided at a high level - creating loads of deflections, making timely rotations to stymy looks created by the opposing team, drawing charges, affect the decision-making of offensive players just with your presence and threat to steal/block the ball, etc.

Obviously Smart doesn't move the needle like a titanic big man who can influence the entire paint with his mere presence and easily block or distort the highest value shots in basketball (attempts at the rim) at high volume, but all of those little things that he does plus strong man defence (he's still an elite man defender, his technique and physical attributes allow him to disrupt a variety of players, eg. Kawhi, Booker, etc.) add up into a defender who can drive above average defences with average teammates and be a key cog on elite ones that either have multiple Smart-like guards/wings or a defensive anchor in the pivot. I view him higher than others on this forum (I think he's a top 40-50 player), but even if you don't rate him that highly I see no solid argument for him being a non-impact player, he's one of the best guard defenders in the league (if not the best) and isn't exactly poor on offence when he isn't forced to create for his teammates a lot.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2021, 01:50:16 AM by Somebody »
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Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2021, 02:59:09 PM »

Offline celticbos

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Would love to send Smart to NO for Lonzo Ball. Could be good trade for both teams as Bledsoe has been their main ball handler. Walker can play off the ball here, and we would have 2 guys that can beat their man off the dribble and distribute also.

Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2021, 03:05:11 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Would love to send Smart to NO for Lonzo Ball. Could be good trade for both teams as Bledsoe has been their main ball handler. Walker can play off the ball here, and we would have 2 guys that can beat their man off the dribble and distribute also.

You want to trade for the guy with 39/29/58 shooting splits?  The guy who, despite his reputation as a passer, is averaging less assists and more turnovers than Smart? 

I don't understand some of the ideas that people on this site come up with sometimes.

Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2021, 11:37:11 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Would love to send Smart to NO for Lonzo Ball. Could be good trade for both teams as Bledsoe has been their main ball handler. Walker can play off the ball here, and we would have 2 guys that can beat their man off the dribble and distribute also.

You want to trade for the guy with 39/29/58 shooting splits?  The guy who, despite his reputation as a passer, is averaging less assists and more turnovers than Smart? 

I don't understand some of the ideas that people on this site come up with sometimes.
I think they are using Lonzo wrong as he has a lot of career lows this years.  They run their offense through Ingram and Williamson and are trying to use Lonzo off the ball and that isn't his game.  It is for those reasons, I wouldn't move Smart to bring him here either, since he would be used in much the same way in Boston and that just wouldn't maximize his ability.  I would move Smart in the right trade, Lonzo just isn't it.
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Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2021, 12:13:57 AM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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Would love to send Smart to NO for Lonzo Ball. Could be good trade for both teams as Bledsoe has been their main ball handler. Walker can play off the ball here, and we would have 2 guys that can beat their man off the dribble and distribute also.

Lonzo for Smart and we lose in first round this year. Incredible...can you imagine Lonzo trying to guard Kyrie? Yikes....

Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2021, 06:02:42 AM »

Offline RodyTur10

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This is the way we want Marcus to play! Keep it up!

Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #70 on: January 25, 2021, 08:06:05 AM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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Would love to send Smart to NO for Lonzo Ball. Could be good trade for both teams as Bledsoe has been their main ball handler. Walker can play off the ball here, and we would have 2 guys that can beat their man off the dribble and distribute also.

Lonzo for Smart and we lose in first round this year. Incredible...can you imagine Lonzo trying to guard Kyrie? Yikes....

Lonzo is a stout defender. Actually that's probably the best part of his game. I mean Lonzo starting to get the reputation of being a Marcus Smart type of player.
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Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2021, 09:32:49 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Would love to send Smart to NO for Lonzo Ball. Could be good trade for both teams as Bledsoe has been their main ball handler. Walker can play off the ball here, and we would have 2 guys that can beat their man off the dribble and distribute also.

Lonzo for Smart and we lose in first round this year. Incredible...can you imagine Lonzo trying to guard Kyrie? Yikes....

Lonzo is a stout defender. Actually that's probably the best part of his game. I mean Lonzo starting to get the reputation of being a Marcus Smart type of player.
Yeah Lonzo is a very good guard defender. I'm not sure if he's as good of a point of attack defender though - I haven't been impressed with his work when he was tasked to chase speedy guards around.
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Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #72 on: January 25, 2021, 10:47:11 AM »

Offline Moranis

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2 3 point attempts from Smart last night.  That is what he needs to do every game.  If he does that, his value goes up immensely. 
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Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2021, 03:17:24 AM »

Offline Indocelts

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Smart had 4-6 FG, 1-3 3Pt, +21 +/-  tonight against Chicago.

This is the way Smart should be playing, focusing on defense and let others take the shots. Hopefully, now that both Jays are back in action, Smart can keep up this kind of statistics.

Re: I hate watching Marcus Smart play basketball
« Reply #74 on: January 26, 2021, 03:21:09 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Smart had 4-6 FG, 1-3 3Pt, +21 +/-  tonight against Chicago.

This is the way Smart should be playing, focusing on defense and let others take the shots. Hopefully, now that both Jays are back in action, Smart can keep up this kind of statistics.

Most of his shots were fadeaways though. I prefer seeing him use runners/leaners/floaters, or even posting up smaller guards.
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