Author Topic: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)  (Read 1714 times)

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Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« on: January 06, 2021, 08:44:16 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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After seeing the destruction of the Raptors and more carefully considering everything, I think a trade for Harden is probably the wrong move. In fact, I was wrong to suggest we should trade JB. Clearly he can become an all-NBAer, perhaps even the undisputed alpha in a winning duo with Tatum. However, I still think we need more firepower to compete for a championship anytime soon, and I’m growing increasingly concerned about losing out on maximizing the value of the TPE. However, there is a team in the west (reminder: no team in the east is going to do business with Danny) that may be open to moving a couple of solid contributors to us if we’re willing to part with Langford, Nesmith and multiple picks, so on that note:

Step One (TPE is Step Two):

To SAC: Langford, Nesmith, Edwards, Green
To BOS: Jabari Parker (26 years old in March)

https://tradenba.com/trades/QQEmyWT5a

Step Two (TPE):

To SAC: ‘21 1st, ‘21 2nd, ‘22 2nd, ‘23 1st (Top 3 Protected)
To BOS: Buddy Hield (turned 28 years old last month)

https://tradenba.com/trades/3S2ns5cHo

We’re adding some much needed depth at the 3/4 in Parker, who Sac probably realizes is going to jump ship (and there’s something going on where he’s not playing for “personal” reasons so perhaps the Kings are going to get what they can?), and who knows what CBS might be able to do with Parker after a disappointing start to his career (remember the magic he worked with our last 2nd overall pick disappointment we picked up - that is, Evan Turner).

Bringing in Hield as our sixth man (or starter when Kemba is hurt with Smart at PG) gives us an extra scoring option to complement the Jays. Furthermore, his contract hedges against the risk of Smart leaving us in free agency. Perhaps long-term we’re looking at a youthful backcourt of PP and Hield complementing Brown and Tatum at the 3/4, with Timelord as our 5. So we really can start to consolidate/trade picks that are clearly of greater value to a team that is really still building themselves up compared to a title contender. Adding more developmental players (after how many the past half decade?) is not what we need/want, but a veteran shooter like Hield (or Barnes) is. If they’re unwilling to part with Hield, take the 2023 pick off the table (or the 2nd rounders), retain one of Langford/Nesmith, and get Barnes instead as a consolation prize (unless we can do something better with the TPE).

We’re probably not going to be able to move Walker without giving up a pick, which is off the table if we move our ‘21 and ‘23 picks, so we need to hope and pray for a full recovery (or at least hope he can play 18-24 MPG the next three years as a spark-plug 6th man behind Smart/Hield, potentially PP/Hield in 2-3 years):

2020-2021 (Truly ten-deep if Kemba returns to form):

Kemba/Teague/PP
Smart/Hield
Brown/Parker
Tatum/Theis/Semi/G. Williams
TT/Timelord/Add a veteran (any potential buyout candidates?)

If Parker shows promise and re-signs, we’ve got this foundation heading into the 2021 off-season (a great position of championship-contending continuity IMHO—and ten-deep with only three players older than 27, with Hield being 28 still, TT at 30 and Kemba at 31)

Kemba/PP
Smart/Hield
Brown/Parker
Tatum/G. Williams
TT/Timelord

Rights to Theis and Semi

Thoughts? Any other deals out there like this one?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 10:03:17 AM by GreenlyGreeny »

Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2021, 10:05:35 AM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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Don't let one game shape your emotions so much. Even in covid times, it's a long season. A couple of days ago you said Tatum was a coward, and were looking to trade him.

Keep this in mind: before the injury, Kemba was scoring 20+ a night, dropping daggers in our opponents when we needed it. If he's never going to be the same, we won't be able to trade him. If he's going to be back to who he was or close to it, we won't want to trade him. He was an all star. The best hope to get this team over the hump is not some trade, it's Kemba getting back.

Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2021, 10:22:11 AM »

Online PAOBoston

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Best course of action is to get Kemba back healthy and use the TPE to shore up the team, not to trade for Jabari freaking Parker.

Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2021, 10:26:14 AM »

Online wdleehi

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Best course of action is to get Kemba back healthy and use the TPE to shore up the team, not to trade for Jabari freaking Parker.


And getting Kemba (and Langford) back early enough to see how the team is (and what it really needs to add) before using the TPE. 


What we think they need now may be completely different when they are back.

Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2021, 10:35:31 AM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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If only we had an all-star point guard who could get good shots for the team to take some pressure off of Brown and Tatum. Is anyone like that available?

Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2021, 10:41:15 AM »

Offline perks-a-beast

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Jabari Paker? Ew...
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Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2021, 10:47:36 AM »

Online RJ87

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Best course of action is to get Kemba back healthy and use the TPE to shore up the team, not to trade for Jabari freaking Parker.


And getting Kemba (and Langford) back early enough to see how the team is (and what it really needs to add) before using the TPE. 


What we think they need now may be completely different when they are back.

I disagree there. I think this team is screaming for a veteran that can play SF/PF and given them consistent production.

Not necessarily a star, but a guy who can start with Kemba/Brown/Tatum/Thompson or come off the bench if Brad keeps Marcus in the starting lineup and slots the Jays up one.

EDIT: Just wanted to clarify, I don't think that guy is Jabari Parker. No thank you, there.

Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2021, 11:04:45 AM »

Online wdleehi

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Best course of action is to get Kemba back healthy and use the TPE to shore up the team, not to trade for Jabari freaking Parker.


And getting Kemba (and Langford) back early enough to see how the team is (and what it really needs to add) before using the TPE. 


What we think they need now may be completely different when they are back.

I disagree there. I think this team is screaming for a veteran that can play SF/PF and given them consistent production.

Not necessarily a star, but a guy who can start with Kemba/Brown/Tatum/Thompson or come off the bench if Brad keeps Marcus in the starting lineup and slots the Jays up one.

EDIT: Just wanted to clarify, I don't think that guy is Jabari Parker. No thank you, there.


I think that a Vet Swing is needed as well but at the rate the Celtics are going right now, I think waiting to see what this team looks like when they are back is a good idea.   

Of course there are not may trades available yet anyways.

Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2021, 11:12:49 AM »

Offline mobilija

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Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2021, 11:15:29 AM »

Offline Big333223

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If only we had an all-star point guard who could get good shots for the team to take some pressure off of Brown and Tatum. Is anyone like that available?
Jabari Paker? Ew...
These two reactions are the two thoughts I had reading this.

As for the TPE, if there's a vet 3-and-D wing out there at mid season (to essentially fill the role we hope Nesmith will eventually) that would be a good addition, assuming Kemba comes back.
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Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2021, 11:27:40 AM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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If only we had an all-star point guard who could get good shots for the team to take some pressure off of Brown and Tatum. Is anyone like that available?
Jabari Paker? Ew...
These two reactions are the two thoughts I had reading this.

As for the TPE, if there's a vet 3-and-D wing out there at mid season (to essentially fill the role we hope Nesmith will eventually) that would be a good addition, assuming Kemba comes back.

It would really depend on the guy. The Cs have a good thing going with their youth movement. I know some guys haven't produced like we hoped, but when Ainge brought in Marcus Morris, we saw what that did to the development of the young guys.

It'd have to be a guy like Teague or Walker that isn't afraid to defer, but can also step in if necessary. It's got to be a guy who doesn't have ego and has had a successful enough career where he doesn't need to prove anything.

Danny Green comes to mind, but I doubt the Sixers would trade or release him. I don't think a guy like Ariza still has enough to play for us in the playoffs. A guy like Milsap would be great, but I don't think the Nuggets are in sell-mode. I'd love to have Olynyk back, but I doubt the Heat would trade with their Eastern Conference finalist rival.

The pickings are pretty slim, which leaves two other types of players. The first type are the guys that could probably help some in the regular season, but would not be able to get playing in the playoffs and big games. Bjelica, Muscala, etc. are the guys I'm thinking of here. The second type of player are the guys that are humble enough to fit into a team, but are being written off for various reasons and have something to prove. The cross-section of these two qualities is pretty rare. Evan Turner was one of them years ago when he came to Boston. Isaiah Thomas was another.

The problem with the second kind of player is that fans have their binkies that they think could still be good, but we often don't know if ego is involved or we are often bad at evaluation. This year, Marvin Bagley is one of the main names that have come up so far.

It's just one of those things that needs time to develop. Frankly, the Cs should give it time. Brad Stevens is one of the best talent developers in the NBA, and the Cs have a lot of talent on their roster. The team should be given the opportunity to figure it out for awhile. They should also see what things look like when Walker is back. The Cs are one of the only teams that are performing at a high level while missing an all-star player. That's significant.

Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2021, 11:56:28 AM »

Offline Big333223

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If only we had an all-star point guard who could get good shots for the team to take some pressure off of Brown and Tatum. Is anyone like that available?
Jabari Paker? Ew...
These two reactions are the two thoughts I had reading this.

As for the TPE, if there's a vet 3-and-D wing out there at mid season (to essentially fill the role we hope Nesmith will eventually) that would be a good addition, assuming Kemba comes back.

It would really depend on the guy. The Cs have a good thing going with their youth movement. I know some guys haven't produced like we hoped, but when Ainge brought in Marcus Morris, we saw what that did to the development of the young guys.

It'd have to be a guy like Teague or Walker that isn't afraid to defer, but can also step in if necessary. It's got to be a guy who doesn't have ego and has had a successful enough career where he doesn't need to prove anything.

Danny Green comes to mind, but I doubt the Sixers would trade or release him. I don't think a guy like Ariza still has enough to play for us in the playoffs. A guy like Milsap would be great, but I don't think the Nuggets are in sell-mode. I'd love to have Olynyk back, but I doubt the Heat would trade with their Eastern Conference finalist rival.

The pickings are pretty slim, which leaves two other types of players. The first type are the guys that could probably help some in the regular season, but would not be able to get playing in the playoffs and big games. Bjelica, Muscala, etc. are the guys I'm thinking of here. The second type of player are the guys that are humble enough to fit into a team, but are being written off for various reasons and have something to prove. The cross-section of these two qualities is pretty rare. Evan Turner was one of them years ago when he came to Boston. Isaiah Thomas was another.

The problem with the second kind of player is that fans have their binkies that they think could still be good, but we often don't know if ego is involved or we are often bad at evaluation. This year, Marvin Bagley is one of the main names that have come up so far.

It's just one of those things that needs time to develop. Frankly, the Cs should give it time. Brad Stevens is one of the best talent developers in the NBA, and the Cs have a lot of talent on their roster. The team should be given the opportunity to figure it out for awhile. They should also see what things look like when Walker is back. The Cs are one of the only teams that are performing at a high level while missing an all-star player. That's significant.

I agree that giving tie for development is good but I also think it's good for the young guys to have role models. If Utah were ever to make Joe Ingles available, he'd be perfect to slide into the swing rotation. Tony Snell or Glenn Robinson are guys who would be less ideal but fit a need that Nesmith isn't ready for and Langford... who knows?
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Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2021, 12:13:23 PM »

Offline tonydelk

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Don't let one game shape your emotions so much. Even in covid times, it's a long season. A couple of days ago you said Tatum was a coward, and were looking to trade him.

Keep this in mind: before the injury, Kemba was scoring 20+ a night, dropping daggers in our opponents when we needed it. If he's never going to be the same, we won't be able to trade him. If he's going to be back to who he was or close to it, we won't want to trade him. He was an all star. The best hope to get this team over the hump is not some trade, it's Kemba getting back.

TP.  People love the trade machine.  I will take it further and state the C's need Kemba and Romeo both back.  Romeo will be a good bench player this year.  Provide some defensive stability at the wing and he's shown in flashes he can get to the rim.  6 to 8 pts off the bench with good Wing D will be a welcome addition.  If he can hit 33% from 3pt range all the better.  The C's need to get healthy.

Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2021, 12:31:21 PM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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If only we had an all-star point guard who could get good shots for the team to take some pressure off of Brown and Tatum. Is anyone like that available?
Jabari Paker? Ew...
These two reactions are the two thoughts I had reading this.

As for the TPE, if there's a vet 3-and-D wing out there at mid season (to essentially fill the role we hope Nesmith will eventually) that would be a good addition, assuming Kemba comes back.

It would really depend on the guy. The Cs have a good thing going with their youth movement. I know some guys haven't produced like we hoped, but when Ainge brought in Marcus Morris, we saw what that did to the development of the young guys.

It'd have to be a guy like Teague or Walker that isn't afraid to defer, but can also step in if necessary. It's got to be a guy who doesn't have ego and has had a successful enough career where he doesn't need to prove anything.

Danny Green comes to mind, but I doubt the Sixers would trade or release him. I don't think a guy like Ariza still has enough to play for us in the playoffs. A guy like Milsap would be great, but I don't think the Nuggets are in sell-mode. I'd love to have Olynyk back, but I doubt the Heat would trade with their Eastern Conference finalist rival.

The pickings are pretty slim, which leaves two other types of players. The first type are the guys that could probably help some in the regular season, but would not be able to get playing in the playoffs and big games. Bjelica, Muscala, etc. are the guys I'm thinking of here. The second type of player are the guys that are humble enough to fit into a team, but are being written off for various reasons and have something to prove. The cross-section of these two qualities is pretty rare. Evan Turner was one of them years ago when he came to Boston. Isaiah Thomas was another.

The problem with the second kind of player is that fans have their binkies that they think could still be good, but we often don't know if ego is involved or we are often bad at evaluation. This year, Marvin Bagley is one of the main names that have come up so far.

It's just one of those things that needs time to develop. Frankly, the Cs should give it time. Brad Stevens is one of the best talent developers in the NBA, and the Cs have a lot of talent on their roster. The team should be given the opportunity to figure it out for awhile. They should also see what things look like when Walker is back. The Cs are one of the only teams that are performing at a high level while missing an all-star player. That's significant.

I agree that giving tie for development is good but I also think it's good for the young guys to have role models. If Utah were ever to make Joe Ingles available, he'd be perfect to slide into the swing rotation. Tony Snell or Glenn Robinson are guys who would be less ideal but fit a need that Nesmith isn't ready for and Langford... who knows?

I like Ingles, but I think the Jazz want to add to their team, not sell parts away.

Snell is not very good at basketball. He's a 3D wing without a reliable 3 and with questionable D. I'd rather give minutes to guys who know our system like Semi or to guys who have a higher ceiling like Nesmith or Langford.

I feel like Celtic fans have clamored for Glen Robinson for years. I don't see the draw. I think there is a reason he's been so many places around the league. I'm not sure he knows how to play within a good team system. He seems like a guy who is out there to get his in order to prove he belongs and get a big paycheck.

Re: Jaylen/Jayson Are the Future, But We Need More (TPE Idea)
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2021, 01:06:19 PM »

Offline td450

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If only we had an all-star point guard who could get good shots for the team to take some pressure off of Brown and Tatum. Is anyone like that available?

I'm not sure how long Smart and Teague will be out, but hopefully it will be long enough for Stevens and Ainge to see the obvious. Pritchard and Waters shoot better and keep the the ball moving. Smart and Teague pound the rock, and so does Kemba.

We don't need better players. We need players who will do complimentary work for this team. Smart, Theis and Thompson are our best players other than the J's, but they don't provide spacing and movement.

Kemba does help with spacing, but he doesn't promote ball movement while he's out there. He will help a lot when he returns, but I hope it is as a scorer off the bench.

If we get someone with the TPE, I hope they support spacing, movement and defense. That matters as much as how good they are. We are lucky. We've got the franchise players locked up for years.