Author Topic: Stretch 4 options  (Read 1431 times)

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Stretch 4 options
« on: January 02, 2021, 01:24:36 PM »

Offline W8ting2McHale

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This is an obvious hole that needs filling. I donít think we need a superstar talent to fill it though. We need a complementary piece, but one at least 6í-8Ē and 225 lbs, that is less than 28 years old. One that is at least average at defending the perimeter. So no to Kevin Love and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Aaron Gordon is an obvious target. So is John Collins, but both are expensive. I like Lauri Markkanen. Who is a less obvious target? One that could be a starter level role player? I donít see any Chris Bosh types being misused on someone elseís bench. A Robert Horry is more what I am thinking anyway.

Rui Hachimura, Brandon Clarke, Nemanja Bjelica or Maxi Kleber maybe? Theyíre more in the line of what I am thinking. How do you acquire any of them. I like Clarkeís energy, but think Hachimura is a better fit. Kyle Anderson isnít a knockdown 3pt shooter, but he has grown into a starter.

Could the Kings be misusing Marvin Bagley and be ready to move on?

If we canít get Aaron Gordon with the TPE, can we do something else with it? Say pick up a point guard whoís more of a facilitator than scorer and trade Kemba for a stretch 4? Or a small forward that say, Washington wants, and send that player along with Grant Williams for Hachimura?

Can you even flip a player you acquire with the TPE? I just think if you canít get the guy you want directly with the TPE, perhaps you get creative?

If you target a stretch 4, than it would seem that Theis, G-Will, and maybe Nesmith would be expendable. They probably arenít worth a Markkanen, or a Bagley, but could 2 of them and a 1st and 2nd do it? Could you get Bjelica for Theis and a couple of 2nds? Or Grant and a 1st?

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2021, 01:45:06 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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People keep saying that we need a stretch 4. We already got an elite stretch 4 in Tatum, plus 2 backup options in Semi and Grant. I would argue that Tatum is the best small-ball stretch 4 in the NBA (given that LeBron ain't playing at the 4). Semi and Grant are inconsistent shooters, but they aren't afraid to shoot the 3. They are both useful 3+D swings.

The way I see it, we desperately need a Hayward replacement. To put it another way, we need a Point Forward.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 02:16:19 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2021, 02:02:07 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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People keep saying that we need a stretch 4. We already got an elite stretch 4 in Tatum, plus 2 backup options in Semi and Grant. I would argue that Tatum is the best stretch 4 in the NBA (given that LeBron ain't playing at the 4). Semi and Grant are inconsistent shooters, but they aren't afraid to shoot the 3. They are both useful 3+D swings.

The way I see it, we desperately need a pass-first (s)wing.
Sounds like you might like Derozan

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2021, 02:13:01 PM »

Online Tr1boy

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This is an obvious hole that needs filling. I donít think we need a superstar talent to fill it though. We need a complementary piece, but one at least 6í-8Ē and 225 lbs, that is less than 28 years old. One that is at least average at defending the perimeter. So no to Kevin Love and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Aaron Gordon is an obvious target. So is John Collins, but both are expensive. I like Lauri Markkanen. Who is a less obvious target? One that could be a starter level role player? I donít see any Chris Bosh types being misused on someone elseís bench. A Robert Horry is more what I am thinking anyway.

Rui Hachimura, Brandon Clarke, Nemanja Bjelica or Maxi Kleber maybe? Theyíre more in the line of what I am thinking. How do you acquire any of them. I like Clarkeís energy, but think Hachimura is a better fit. Kyle Anderson isnít a knockdown 3pt shooter, but he has grown into a starter.

Could the Kings be misusing Marvin Bagley and be ready to move on?

If we canít get Aaron Gordon with the TPE, can we do something else with it? Say pick up a point guard whoís more of a facilitator than scorer and trade Kemba for a stretch 4? Or a small forward that say, Washington wants, and send that player along with Grant Williams for Hachimura?

Can you even flip a player you acquire with the TPE? I just think if you canít get the guy you want directly with the TPE, perhaps you get creative?

If you target a stretch 4, than it would seem that Theis, G-Will, and maybe Nesmith would be expendable. They probably arenít worth a Markkanen, or a Bagley, but could 2 of them and a 1st and 2nd do it? Could you get Bjelica for Theis and a couple of 2nds? Or Grant and a 1st?

Heat unless a drastic meltdown likely don't trade Olynyk

but yeah... KO would be a nice guy to bring back.  He has improved his body .... still not the best defensively but improved.  Shoots the 3 well

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2021, 02:17:08 PM »

Offline Somebody

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People keep saying that we need a stretch 4. We already got an elite stretch 4 in Tatum, plus 2 backup options in Semi and Grant. I would argue that Tatum is the best small-ball stretch 4 in the NBA (given that LeBron ain't playing at the 4). Semi and Grant are inconsistent shooters, but they aren't afraid to shoot the 3. They are both useful 3+D swings.

The way I see it, we desperately need a Hayward replacement. To put it another way, we need a Point Forward.
Jaylen is our go-to guy when we need to guard elite 4s.
Jaylen for All-NBA

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2021, 02:31:04 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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People keep saying that we need a stretch 4. We already got an elite stretch 4 in Tatum, plus 2 backup options in Semi and Grant. I would argue that Tatum is the best stretch 4 in the NBA (given that LeBron ain't playing at the 4). Semi and Grant are inconsistent shooters, but they aren't afraid to shoot the 3. They are both useful 3+D swings.

The way I see it, we desperately need a pass-first (s)wing.
Sounds like you might like Derozan
Not really. DeRozan is a ball dominant wing. We need a guy who's happy to play off the ball cause we already got 2 ball dominant wings in Tatum and Brown. Off the top of my head, I'd like us to go after Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. Another name that comes to mind is Harrison Barnes. Not exactly a Point Forward, but he's a decent passer at the swing positions. Unfortunately, he's overpaid.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 02:37:41 PM by Jvalin »

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2021, 02:38:12 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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People keep saying that we need a stretch 4. We already got an elite stretch 4 in Tatum, plus 2 backup options in Semi and Grant. I would argue that Tatum is the best stretch 4 in the NBA (given that LeBron ain't playing at the 4). Semi and Grant are inconsistent shooters, but they aren't afraid to shoot the 3. They are both useful 3+D swings.

The way I see it, we desperately need a pass-first (s)wing.
Sounds like you might like Derozan
Not really. DeRozan is a ball dominant wing. We need a guy who's happy to play off the ball cause we already got 2 ball dominant wings in Tatum and Brown. Off the top of my head, I'd like us to go after Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. Another name that comes to mind is Harrison Barnes. Problem is, he's overpaid.
Derozan is averaging 8 assist per game this season. He has doubled his assist averages since the trade to the Spurs. He had 6.2 and 5.6 APG last couple seasons. I wouldnít mind him coming here at all. He is probably a much better player than a hobbled Kemba and elite offensively compared to smart.
If it takes Grant and Nesmith to bring Derozan here I would be really upset of Danny doesnít do it

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2021, 02:38:39 PM »

Offline Celtsfan24

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Agree on Hachimura and Markkenen, would be solid additions.  Not sure either is available or what it would take to get them.  Free agents that are available and could help are Skal Labissiere, a 4 with size can shoot the 3 and get his own shot has been inconsistent, but is only 24 and has put up 30pt games.  Can also rebound and block a shot here and there.  Vonleh is the other fa I think could play the stretch 4 and help.  Henzonia played the point forward role with the Knicks and played some of his best basketball.  Obviously they are faís for a reason, but if given minutes I think they would be better pieces than who is currently playing.  Team is too small consistently getting out rebounded at crucial times in the game.  Theis, G. Williams, and Thompson at 6í8Ē are just not going to get it done against bigger teams.  Would like to see more of Robert Wiliams, not sure why he is playing 30mins a game.

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2021, 02:46:07 PM »

Online RodyTur10

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This is an obvious hole that needs filling. I donít think we need a superstar talent to fill it though. We need a complementary piece, but one at least 6í-8Ē and 225 lbs, that is less than 28 years old. One that is at least average at defending the perimeter. So no to Kevin Love and LaMarcus Aldridge.

Aaron Gordon is an obvious target. So is John Collins, but both are expensive. I like Lauri Markkanen. Who is a less obvious target? One that could be a starter level role player? I donít see any Chris Bosh types being misused on someone elseís bench. A Robert Horry is more what I am thinking anyway.

Rui Hachimura, Brandon Clarke, Nemanja Bjelica or Maxi Kleber maybe? Theyíre more in the line of what I am thinking. How do you acquire any of them. I like Clarkeís energy, but think Hachimura is a better fit. Kyle Anderson isnít a knockdown 3pt shooter, but he has grown into a starter.

Could the Kings be misusing Marvin Bagley and be ready to move on?

If we canít get Aaron Gordon with the TPE, can we do something else with it? Say pick up a point guard whoís more of a facilitator than scorer and trade Kemba for a stretch 4? Or a small forward that say, Washington wants, and send that player along with Grant Williams for Hachimura?

Can you even flip a player you acquire with the TPE? I just think if you canít get the guy you want directly with the TPE, perhaps you get creative?

If you target a stretch 4, than it would seem that Theis, G-Will, and maybe Nesmith would be expendable. They probably arenít worth a Markkanen, or a Bagley, but could 2 of them and a 1st and 2nd do it? Could you get Bjelica for Theis and a couple of 2nds? Or Grant and a 1st?

Last trade deadline I was proposing Grant Williams + Carsen Edwards + Javonte Green + Vincent Poirier + 1st round pick for Richaun Holmes + Nemanja Bjelica. I didn't understand why Ainge didn't improve the bench as it was obvious we were only 6-7 guys deep, I wanted improvement in our front court for two playoff runs.

Now that Hayward is gone and both these potential targets guys are on expiring contracts it makes less sense to give up a first round pick though.
Rationalism over beliefs

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2021, 02:50:43 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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People keep saying that we need a stretch 4. We already got an elite stretch 4 in Tatum, plus 2 backup options in Semi and Grant. I would argue that Tatum is the best stretch 4 in the NBA (given that LeBron ain't playing at the 4). Semi and Grant are inconsistent shooters, but they aren't afraid to shoot the 3. They are both useful 3+D swings.

The way I see it, we desperately need a pass-first (s)wing.
Sounds like you might like Derozan
Not really. DeRozan is a ball dominant wing. We need a guy who's happy to play off the ball cause we already got 2 ball dominant wings in Tatum and Brown. Off the top of my head, I'd like us to go after Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. Another name that comes to mind is Harrison Barnes. Problem is, he's overpaid.
Derozan is averaging 8 assist per game this season. He has doubled his assist averages since the trade to the Spurs. He had 6.2 and 5.6 APG last couple seasons. I wouldnít mind him coming here at all. He is probably a much better player than a hobbled Kemba and elite offensively compared to smart.
If it takes Grant and Nesmith to bring Derozan here I would be really upset of Danny doesnít do it
DeRozan needs the ball in his hands in order to maximize his effectiveness. Again, we already got 2 ball-dominant wings. Basketball is played with only 1 ball. What's the point in adding DeRozan and using him off the ball? He's a below average 3pt shooter.

I know he's shooting 53.8% from 3 this season, but it ain't sustainable. He's a career 28.5% 3pt shooter. His career high prior to this season is 33.8% in 2015/16.

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2021, 02:54:23 PM »

Offline Somebody

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People keep saying that we need a stretch 4. We already got an elite stretch 4 in Tatum, plus 2 backup options in Semi and Grant. I would argue that Tatum is the best stretch 4 in the NBA (given that LeBron ain't playing at the 4). Semi and Grant are inconsistent shooters, but they aren't afraid to shoot the 3. They are both useful 3+D swings.

The way I see it, we desperately need a pass-first (s)wing.
Sounds like you might like Derozan
Not really. DeRozan is a ball dominant wing. We need a guy who's happy to play off the ball cause we already got 2 ball dominant wings in Tatum and Brown. Off the top of my head, I'd like us to go after Joe Ingles or Kyle Anderson. Another name that comes to mind is Harrison Barnes. Not exactly a Point Forward, but he's a decent passer at the swing positions. Unfortunately, he's overpaid.
DeRozan isn't exactly ball dominant nowadays - he's pretty active off the ball when it comes to probing the defence by moving into soft spots with cuts to the basket and weaves around screens, he can definitely approximate what Hayward did for us (swap three point shooting for drives).

The guy I'd be looking at is Otto Porter Jr. He's an elite shooter who can defend and do some ballhandling/playmaking duties. He's an expiring contract on a Bulls team that wants to chase free agents this summer (so they'll have to waive his cap hold in the offseason in order to create cap space), so we might be able to get him for say Langford+Javonte+Edwards. I get that Langford has the potential to turn into an elite defensive wing with the ability to create and score, but Porter is a really good 3 and D wing who's decent on the ball that can help us for years (he's 27 so we can probably get 5 more prime years out of him with how players are aging nowadays).
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 02:59:25 PM by Somebody »
Jaylen for All-NBA

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2021, 02:55:32 PM »

Offline W8ting2McHale

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People keep saying that we need a stretch 4. We already got an elite stretch 4 in Tatum, plus 2 backup options in Semi and Grant. I would argue that Tatum is the best small-ball stretch 4 in the NBA (given that LeBron ain't playing at the 4). Semi and Grant are inconsistent shooters, but they aren't afraid to shoot the 3. They are both useful 3+D swings.

The way I see it, we desperately need a Hayward replacement. To put it another way, we need a Point Forward.

True, Tatum is a great small ball 4, but I would rather have him in that role at 15 minutes or fewer a game and the rest of the time as a 3, with Jaylen as a big 2.  I want someone who maybe isnít a starter but can play 22-25 minutes and not be a liability.

Jaylen can defend elite 4s, but do you really want him on Giannis or Zion? Wouldnít Brandon Clarke or Kyle Anderson be a better choice? Or Aaron Gordon?

I am still hoping Timelord can contribute more as a passer at the top of the key, with Kemba or Jaylen cutting. We do need more passing but it doesnít necessarily have to be from the 2-3, a 4 or 5 can work just as well, Big Al already proved that.

I would be fine with Grant and his skill level, but heís 3Ē too short and isnít very athletic. Nesmith isnít strong or experienced enough to fill this role. Maybe in 2-3 years, but we need someone in the meantime.

Either Porter would fit into what I am thinking, but would Denver or Chicago give them up?

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2021, 03:05:38 PM »

Offline W8ting2McHale

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Every time I see Grant Williams out there and get reminded that White Mamba had better hops and 3 point stroke, leaves me shaking my head. I think heís fine as depth, but he should be getting Scalabrine level minutes on a contender, not 22-25.

Anyone think Kyle Kuzma could be an option? At the very least heís going to want to prove to the Lakers they misused him.

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2021, 03:11:04 PM »

Online knuckleballer

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This won't be a popular name, but I thought I'd raise it anyway.  Marcus Morris? 

The Clippers just re-signed him so I doubt they're looking to unload him, but they are thin at center and could use someone like Theis.  If Kawhi leaves after this season, they'll be looking at a rebuild and Morris won't be a part of their plans. 

For the Celtics, he knows the team, he'll give us added size, another scoring option, and some needed attitude.

It's far fetched, but I thought I'd add it to the discussion.

Re: Stretch 4 options
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2021, 03:35:33 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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DeRozan isn't exactly ball dominant nowadays - he's pretty active off the ball when it comes to probing the defence by moving into soft spots with cuts to the basket and weaves around screens,
He had a USG% of 26.1 last season (36th in the NBA) and 27.6 the season before that (25th in the NBA). That's pretty ball dominant in my book. Sure, his USG% is lower this season (22.8 ), but he has only played 5 games. Chances are, it will revert to the mean.


he can definitely approximate what Hayward did for us (swap three point shooting for drives).
I don't think we need a slasher. We already got an elite slasher in Brown. Imo, we need more passing and shooting. Most importantly, we need someone who's happy to play off the ball next to Tatum and Brown. I guess a 3+D wing would be a decent alternative, but we'd still need more passing. Hopefully, Kemba will fill that void once he comes back.


The guy I'd be looking at is Otto Porter Jr. (...) we might be able to get him for say Langford+Javonte+Edwards.
The C's are hard capped at the apron. If my math is correct, this would be an invalid trade. We would end up $408,659 above the apron.

Basketball-wise, Otto Porter would be a nice fit. Unfortunately, he's massively overpaid, not to mention he's injury prone.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 03:49:48 PM by Jvalin »