Author Topic: Disappointed at Grant Williams game  (Read 6446 times)

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Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2021, 04:15:51 PM »

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Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2021, 04:20:12 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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I disagree he drafts anyone undersized for their position and scrappy hustle guys.

Imo it's lazy drafting. He'd rather take a guy that does a lot of things even at just an average level than a guy that does one thing really great.
Not sure whether it's lazy drafting but it certainly is poor drafting.

Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2021, 04:58:02 PM »

Online Silas

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I disagree he drafts anyone undersized for their position and scrappy hustle guys.

Imo it's lazy drafting. He'd rather take a guy that does a lot of things even at just an average level than a guy that does one thing really great.
Not sure whether it's lazy drafting but it certainly is poor drafting.

Does not appear to be the case with Nesmith.
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Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2021, 02:05:37 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I disagree he drafts anyone undersized for their position and scrappy hustle guys.

Imo it's lazy drafting. He'd rather take a guy that does a lot of things even at just an average level than a guy that does one thing really great.
Not sure whether it's lazy drafting but it certainly is poor drafting.

Does not appear to be the case with Nesmith.

I suspect if nesmith was the knockdown shooter we hoped for he'd be playing. This is why we should not have used any of these picks and we should have filled out bench with veteran role players.

This was such an egregious mistake that when we get bounced from the playoffs because the opposing team goes on a run and we start chucking and proceed to get bounced, major changes need to take place.

Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2021, 02:53:55 AM »

Offline Rikibellevie

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The frustrating thing about Grant is that we're only a few months removed from him being pretty solid in the playoffs. 

Last year, he looked like a solid defender despite his lack of athleticism.  Strong, undersized but good at making taller players play through his chest, just quick enough to be switchable.  Jumpshot started out as a horror show but he actually finished the season and playoffs very well.  Basically a PJ Tucker starter kit.

This year the jumpshot is okay-ish, but he has lost his ability to defend anybody.  And I don't know why.  It looks like his positioning has completely abandoned him and he's constantly a step behind the play now.  And a player with his limited physical tools just can't afford to be behind on anything.

TP (if I would know how to give them). We saw a lot of mentla strenght, maturity, knowledge of BBL, switchability, potential defensiv anchor and offensive link. The kind of guy is not so easy to find and are very important on a championship team. So I get it that we have to wait to see if he developps or not. Now I must say I am not that optimistic, but I don't know at all. But what is sure is that we need to find a good vet at his position with TPE. It is one of our weaknesses.

And for the one who say we should trade all our picks for vets... I don't agree that much (it depends on what we could get, but we saw that with the 30 only...it was nothing). This draft looks like it was a very loaded draft and we even may have missed 3 potential good role player with the 30's (PF Tilleman SG Bane and PG Maledon), players coast controlled for the next 4 years, NBA ready or almost and timing good with the Jays maturation. We still have had TPE for the vet guy (and a min if needed at dedline)

Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2021, 03:40:10 AM »

Offline ozgod

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I disagree he drafts anyone undersized for their position and scrappy hustle guys.

Imo it's lazy drafting. He'd rather take a guy that does a lot of things even at just an average level than a guy that does one thing really great.
Not sure whether it's lazy drafting but it certainly is poor drafting.


Does not appear to be the case with Nesmith.

I suspect if nesmith was the knockdown shooter we hoped for he'd be playing. This is why we should not have used any of these picks and we should have filled out bench with veteran role players.

This was such an egregious mistake that when we get bounced from the playoffs because the opposing team goes on a run and we start chucking and proceed to get bounced, major changes need to take place.

Or...it could be that Nesmith, like most college players, might need a little seasoning first. Kyle Korver averaged 4.5 points his first year in the league and made 1 of 3 3s. We're judging the guy on a month of the season where he's played 4 games, had no summer league and had an abbreviated training camp due to Covid. I'm sure none of us would want to be judged after 4 days on the job. It doesn't help that he's being outperformed by his teammate Payton who was drafted below him but who has been getting more PT due to maturity (he did play 4 years of college ball) and because he more readily filled a need with Kemba out.

I suspect with Nesmith it's more a case of the fanbase having elevated expectations because of the media reports "best pure shooter in the draft", "averaged 50% from 3" etc. and we all extrapolated that we would have this year's Tyler Herro. Give the kid a break, at least let him get through half the season before deciding he sucks balls  :angel:

As for GWill, I think the disappointment is certainly reasonable and it's fair to expect more of him based on the potential he showed last season. He outperformed his draft spot and played larger than his size. This season he certainly seems to have regressed, particularly on the defensive end. I've also seen some bad habits creeping into his game, like complaining to referees and not running back when he thinks he's been fouled.
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Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2021, 08:58:39 AM »

Offline ChillyWilly

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I disagree he drafts anyone undersized for their position and scrappy hustle guys.

Imo it's lazy drafting. He'd rather take a guy that does a lot of things even at just an average level than a guy that does one thing really great.
Not sure whether it's lazy drafting but it certainly is poor drafting.


Does not appear to be the case with Nesmith.

I suspect if nesmith was the knockdown shooter we hoped for he'd be playing. This is why we should not have used any of these picks and we should have filled out bench with veteran role players.

This was such an egregious mistake that when we get bounced from the playoffs because the opposing team goes on a run and we start chucking and proceed to get bounced, major changes need to take place.

Or...it could be that Nesmith, like most college players, might need a little seasoning first. Kyle Korver averaged 4.5 points his first year in the league and made 1 of 3 3s. We're judging the guy on a month of the season where he's played 4 games, had no summer league and had an abbreviated training camp due to Covid. I'm sure none of us would want to be judged after 4 days on the job. It doesn't help that he's being outperformed by his teammate Payton who was drafted below him but who has been getting more PT due to maturity (he did play 4 years of college ball) and because he more readily filled a need with Kemba out.

I suspect with Nesmith it's more a case of the fanbase having elevated expectations because of the media reports "best pure shooter in the draft", "averaged 50% from 3" etc. and we all extrapolated that we would have this year's Tyler Herro. Give the kid a break, at least let him get through half the season before deciding he sucks balls  :angel:

As for GWill, I think the disappointment is certainly reasonable and it's fair to expect more of him based on the potential he showed last season. He outperformed his draft spot and played larger than his size. This season he certainly seems to have regressed, particularly on the defensive end. I've also seen some bad habits creeping into his game, like complaining to referees and not running back when he thinks he's been fouled.

We are a demanding fan base and seeing other guys come out the gate really hot is really frustrating when your guy can't even see the floor. However you are right this is a marathon not a sprint. We can go back and see rookies come out hot but that's their peak and its down from there.
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Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2021, 10:04:51 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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Yeah, I like Grant a lot, but I think he's just too small, with too limited an offensive skillset, to be an impact guy.

I want him to be more but right now he just isn't.
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Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #68 on: January 24, 2021, 10:57:20 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I disagree he drafts anyone undersized for their position and scrappy hustle guys.

Imo it's lazy drafting. He'd rather take a guy that does a lot of things even at just an average level than a guy that does one thing really great.
Not sure whether it's lazy drafting but it certainly is poor drafting.


Does not appear to be the case with Nesmith.

I suspect if nesmith was the knockdown shooter we hoped for he'd be playing. This is why we should not have used any of these picks and we should have filled out bench with veteran role players.

This was such an egregious mistake that when we get bounced from the playoffs because the opposing team goes on a run and we start chucking and proceed to get bounced, major changes need to take place.

Or...it could be that Nesmith, like most college players, might need a little seasoning first. Kyle Korver averaged 4.5 points his first year in the league and made 1 of 3 3s. We're judging the guy on a month of the season where he's played 4 games, had no summer league and had an abbreviated training camp due to Covid. I'm sure none of us would want to be judged after 4 days on the job. It doesn't help that he's being outperformed by his teammate Payton who was drafted below him but who has been getting more PT due to maturity (he did play 4 years of college ball) and because he more readily filled a need with Kemba out.

I suspect with Nesmith it's more a case of the fanbase having elevated expectations because of the media reports "best pure shooter in the draft", "averaged 50% from 3" etc. and we all extrapolated that we would have this year's Tyler Herro. Give the kid a break, at least let him get through half the season before deciding he sucks balls  :angel:

As for GWill, I think the disappointment is certainly reasonable and it's fair to expect more of him based on the potential he showed last season. He outperformed his draft spot and played larger than his size. This season he certainly seems to have regressed, particularly on the defensive end. I've also seen some bad habits creeping into his game, like complaining to referees and not running back when he thinks he's been fouled.

Umm I could've sworn danny had stated they took nesmith and pritchard with the thought these guys would at least be able to play right away.

But either way, this is why we should be out of the developing of players beyond tatum and brown at this point - we need what nesmith can do, now not 3 yrs. from now.

Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #69 on: January 24, 2021, 12:56:38 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Yeah, I like Grant a lot, but I think he's just too small, with too limited an offensive skillset, to be an impact guy.

I want him to be more but right now he just isn't.
He just doesn’t have the athleticism nor physical tools to be an NBA player. He isn’t a 3 but also doesn’t have the size or athleticism to be an effective undersized 4/5. Throw in that he is an awful offensive player and it just isn’t adding up.

Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #70 on: January 24, 2021, 01:09:15 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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I disagree he drafts anyone undersized for their position and scrappy hustle guys.

Imo it's lazy drafting. He'd rather take a guy that does a lot of things even at just an average level than a guy that does one thing really great.
Not sure whether it's lazy drafting but it certainly is poor drafting.


Does not appear to be the case with Nesmith.

I suspect if nesmith was the knockdown shooter we hoped for he'd be playing. This is why we should not have used any of these picks and we should have filled out bench with veteran role players.

This was such an egregious mistake that when we get bounced from the playoffs because the opposing team goes on a run and we start chucking and proceed to get bounced, major changes need to take place.

Or...it could be that Nesmith, like most college players, might need a little seasoning first. Kyle Korver averaged 4.5 points his first year in the league and made 1 of 3 3s. We're judging the guy on a month of the season where he's played 4 games, had no summer league and had an abbreviated training camp due to Covid. I'm sure none of us would want to be judged after 4 days on the job. It doesn't help that he's being outperformed by his teammate Payton who was drafted below him but who has been getting more PT due to maturity (he did play 4 years of college ball) and because he more readily filled a need with Kemba out.

I suspect with Nesmith it's more a case of the fanbase having elevated expectations because of the media reports "best pure shooter in the draft", "averaged 50% from 3" etc. and we all extrapolated that we would have this year's Tyler Herro. Give the kid a break, at least let him get through half the season before deciding he sucks balls  :angel:

As for GWill, I think the disappointment is certainly reasonable and it's fair to expect more of him based on the potential he showed last season. He outperformed his draft spot and played larger than his size. This season he certainly seems to have regressed, particularly on the defensive end. I've also seen some bad habits creeping into his game, like complaining to referees and not running back when he thinks he's been fouled.

Umm I could've sworn danny had stated they took nesmith and pritchard with the thought these guys would at least be able to play right away.

But either way, this is why we should be out of the developing of players beyond tatum and brown at this point - we need what nesmith can do, now not 3 yrs. from now.

In 3 years Lebron will be done, Tatum will be 25 and Brown will be 26.

Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #71 on: January 24, 2021, 04:13:17 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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I disagree he drafts anyone undersized for their position and scrappy hustle guys.

Imo it's lazy drafting. He'd rather take a guy that does a lot of things even at just an average level than a guy that does one thing really great.
Not sure whether it's lazy drafting but it certainly is poor drafting.


Does not appear to be the case with Nesmith.

I suspect if nesmith was the knockdown shooter we hoped for he'd be playing. This is why we should not have used any of these picks and we should have filled out bench with veteran role players.

This was such an egregious mistake that when we get bounced from the playoffs because the opposing team goes on a run and we start chucking and proceed to get bounced, major changes need to take place.

Or...it could be that Nesmith, like most college players, might need a little seasoning first. Kyle Korver averaged 4.5 points his first year in the league and made 1 of 3 3s. We're judging the guy on a month of the season where he's played 4 games, had no summer league and had an abbreviated training camp due to Covid. I'm sure none of us would want to be judged after 4 days on the job. It doesn't help that he's being outperformed by his teammate Payton who was drafted below him but who has been getting more PT due to maturity (he did play 4 years of college ball) and because he more readily filled a need with Kemba out.

I suspect with Nesmith it's more a case of the fanbase having elevated expectations because of the media reports "best pure shooter in the draft", "averaged 50% from 3" etc. and we all extrapolated that we would have this year's Tyler Herro. Give the kid a break, at least let him get through half the season before deciding he sucks balls  :angel:

As for GWill, I think the disappointment is certainly reasonable and it's fair to expect more of him based on the potential he showed last season. He outperformed his draft spot and played larger than his size. This season he certainly seems to have regressed, particularly on the defensive end. I've also seen some bad habits creeping into his game, like complaining to referees and not running back when he thinks he's been fouled.

Umm I could've sworn danny had stated they took nesmith and pritchard with the thought these guys would at least be able to play right away.

But either way, this is why we should be out of the developing of players beyond tatum and brown at this point - we need what nesmith can do, now not 3 yrs. from now.

In 3 years Lebron will be done, Tatum will be 25 and Brown will be 26.

Ok this is the biggest loser perspective I've seen in a long time.

"We can't compete with the best teams right now so why bother?"

...Even though this team has shown things that you don't normally see from young teams, like make it to within a game of the finals.

Ok so let's say we continue along this path and lebron retires next yr. and giannis decides to join anthony davis and throw someone like george or kawhi in for the hell of it. Are we just going to wait another 5-6 yrs. and hope by that time there isn't another super team?

At what point do we try to compete or are we just happy to have a participation trophy?

And by participation trophy I mean are we just happy we have an NBA team to cheer for.

This is just sad I can't believe boston fans are just content.

Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #72 on: January 24, 2021, 05:31:38 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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I disagree he drafts anyone undersized for their position and scrappy hustle guys.

Imo it's lazy drafting. He'd rather take a guy that does a lot of things even at just an average level than a guy that does one thing really great.
Not sure whether it's lazy drafting but it certainly is poor drafting.


Does not appear to be the case with Nesmith.

I suspect if nesmith was the knockdown shooter we hoped for he'd be playing. This is why we should not have used any of these picks and we should have filled out bench with veteran role players.

This was such an egregious mistake that when we get bounced from the playoffs because the opposing team goes on a run and we start chucking and proceed to get bounced, major changes need to take place.

Or...it could be that Nesmith, like most college players, might need a little seasoning first. Kyle Korver averaged 4.5 points his first year in the league and made 1 of 3 3s. We're judging the guy on a month of the season where he's played 4 games, had no summer league and had an abbreviated training camp due to Covid. I'm sure none of us would want to be judged after 4 days on the job. It doesn't help that he's being outperformed by his teammate Payton who was drafted below him but who has been getting more PT due to maturity (he did play 4 years of college ball) and because he more readily filled a need with Kemba out.

I suspect with Nesmith it's more a case of the fanbase having elevated expectations because of the media reports "best pure shooter in the draft", "averaged 50% from 3" etc. and we all extrapolated that we would have this year's Tyler Herro. Give the kid a break, at least let him get through half the season before deciding he sucks balls  :angel:

As for GWill, I think the disappointment is certainly reasonable and it's fair to expect more of him based on the potential he showed last season. He outperformed his draft spot and played larger than his size. This season he certainly seems to have regressed, particularly on the defensive end. I've also seen some bad habits creeping into his game, like complaining to referees and not running back when he thinks he's been fouled.

Umm I could've sworn danny had stated they took nesmith and pritchard with the thought these guys would at least be able to play right away.

But either way, this is why we should be out of the developing of players beyond tatum and brown at this point - we need what nesmith can do, now not 3 yrs. from now.

In 3 years Lebron will be done, Tatum will be 25 and Brown will be 26.

Ok this is the biggest loser perspective I've seen in a long time.

"We can't compete with the best teams right now so why bother?"

...Even though this team has shown things that you don't normally see from young teams, like make it to within a game of the finals.

Ok so let's say we continue along this path and lebron retires next yr. and giannis decides to join anthony davis and throw someone like george or kawhi in for the hell of it. Are we just going to wait another 5-6 yrs. and hope by that time there isn't another super team?

At what point do we try to compete or are we just happy to have a participation trophy?

And by participation trophy I mean are we just happy we have an NBA team to cheer for.

This is just sad I can't believe boston fans are just content.

Before this season I figured development of the youngsters was key to the team. Either to get some to become starter/rotation level players in 2-3 years or to build up value as trading assets.

The turning point was when Irving and Horford left, and we couldn't make a trade for Davis, and decided to keep all our draft picks in 2019. From that point it became clear to me that we weren't going to be able to trade for a superstar anymore with our warchest of picks gone and that we had to wait until Tatum and Brown could lead the team to a championship.

For that to happen we needed good drafting, player development and patience. However Tatum and Brown have both made tremendous progress in the last one-and-a-half year. They're much closer to being ready than I could have hoped, which is great of course. The supporting cast isn't there, because Ainge never expected or planned this to happen so soon.

I understand the urge to make moves and I believe we definitely should be looking to use the TPE this season to get a valuable role player, but we need to stay on the course for the longterm. A guy like Aldridge or Tucker isn't going to help in the future, so I'm against such moves (unless it's giving up a guy like Edwards or a second round pick).

I agree though that we can't sit and wait until a project like Nesmith is going to blossom 3 years from now. The Celtics are past that stadium. And we certainly shouldn't be afraid to try to contend because the Lakers, Nets, Bucks or Clippers have assembled a superstar collection. Stay on our own course and if the level of Tatum and Brown warrants moves to fasten that traject: we should. The Golden State Warriors were an GOAT-team, so we should praise the opportunities it gives that this team has gone.

Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #73 on: Yesterday at 01:14:00 PM »

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Quietest 17pts I have seen from a player. But geez, 17 pts shooting 7-9 fg? 

Grant has been inconsistent this season.  If he could string together games like, last night.... it would really help out the team

Was better at the D end also.  Just has to put it together

highlights vs Raptors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F18gJEajO8I

Re: Disappointed at Grant Williams game
« Reply #74 on: Yesterday at 01:39:21 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I just don't get the hate towards Grant. He is world's better at shooting the three this year. His scoring has been very efficient. And he does guard PFs at a good level and can at least credibly switch onto a lot of SFs and some centers.

He started the year defensively completely lost and appeared a step slower and a tiny bit rounder. But he has worked through that.

He has a high BBIQ and is more than fine as a 9th to 11th man in the rotation. Like everyone on the bench, he has to get consistent. And lest we forget, he only turned 22 in December. Give him time. I see a future, extremely solid and productive bench guy, especially if that 3 point shot is always over 40%.