One move away?

[Moranis]

The Celts are one move away in the sense that every team that lacks a clear cut MVP player is one major move away.



The easiest way for this roster to pop would be if one of the guys they've drafted in the last few years makes an unexpected leap.

Otherwise, we know what we've got. Tatum is a signature star in the NBA, an All NBA fixture for years to come, but not yet a top 5 guy. Kemba and Brown are very nice secondary stars who may or may not make All Star.  Smart is an elite defensive role player.  Mixed bag of role players and young guys otherwise.


The Celts enter this next season in much the same position they were in at the end of their bubble playoff run. That's both good and bad.

How many teams with clear cut MVP players are legit contenders?

Giannis hasn’t made a Finals. Harden and Westbrook didn’t make it since ascending to MVP-level players.

Teams with MVP’s are sometimes further away than a team like ours. Look at the flurry of moves Milwaukee made after running away with the best record.

1. Making the finals or being unable to do so doesn't really determine whether a team is a title contender or not. Milwaukee had two fantastic seasons by smashing indicators that are more reliable than playoff wins that have a ton of variance while Houston had some really good years with Harden as their centrepiece (they almost beat one of the most dominant teams of all time), those teams were absolutely good enough to win NBA titles.

I think there's merit to this, but I also think that you can be a very good team without being a title contender.  Ultimately, in order for a team to hit that bar they would actually have to put themselves into title contention.

Houston's "very good years" with Harden resulted in more first round playoff exits than Conference Finals appearances. As memory serves, with the exception of the WCF loss to the Warriors three years ago, none of their exits were particularly competitive:

'13: 2-4 against the Thunder in the first round
'14: 2-4 against the Trail Blazers in the first round
'15: 1-4 against the Warriors in the WCF
'16: 1-4 against the Warriors in the first round
'17: 2-4 against San Antonio in the Semis
'18: 3-4 against the Warriors In the WCF
'19: 2-4 against the Warriors in the Semis
'20: 1-4 against the Lakers in the Semis

What's the old saying, almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades? At a certain point, if you can't make it to the NBA Finals you self-evidently cannot be good enough to win them.

Milwaukee is a special case so far but save this year they've shown solid incremental improvement around Giannis. Time will tell with them.

Their run from '17 to '19 were title contending years imo, Harden really started hitting his stride in '17. Pushing some fantastic teams to 6 games or more is competitive.

Btw the bolded can only start to hold true with dozens or even hundreds of simulations, it is very much possible for a title contender to lose in the conference semifinals or finals to other really good teams in a few years. Heck, it's even possible for a team that's good enough to win an NBA title to lose to an eighth seed (see the '07 Mavericks)!

Sure. I just don't think Harden in Houston qualifies, even if we shorten the window.

San Antonio with Duncan is the platonic ideal of what you would expect to see: from '97 to '13 they had multiple deep playoff runs, three first-round outs, and five titles in seven finals appearances. LeBron's Heat (or really "any team with LeBron James" for the last 10 years or so) and Golden State with 4+ straight finals appearances, Chicago with Jordan obviously, Los Angeles with Kobe & Shaq in the late '90s to the turn of the century (and a minor reprise after the Gasol trade), so on and so forth.

The obvious rejoinder here is that yes, of course, winning distorts the history of the season... but this isn't football - you don't get a prize for the regular season. For me, Harden on the Rockets is about on par with Iverson with the 76ers.  Good team, just not really good enough.

Houston was the 2nd best team in the world for a 2 to 3 year period.  They weren't better than the Warriors, but no one was.  Had the injuries to Durant, Klay, etc. happened earlier, Houston probably wins the title that Toronto won.   

This is a wonderful hypothetical delivered as an assertion

I assume you are ready with all manner of glorious discussion points regarding points per possession, pace, wins per 100 games, strength of schedule, ORtg/DRtg differential and all sorts of other filigree to disguise the fact that Houston, having claimed the #1 seed in the West once in the regular season (the same year they got bounced by Golden state in the WCF), were the undisputed second chair for multiple seasons.

Let me save you your time. I don't agree with that assertion. They had one great year. They had a few good years. Ultimately they always lost as they played: with a complete absence of grace,  joy, and any redeeming aesthetic quality.

Two years ago, it is true they were the 4th seed, but they had the same record as the 3rd seed and 1 less win than the 2nd seed.  They destroyed a 50 win Jazz team in 5 games in the 1st round before losing in 6 to the Warriors in the Semis.  They lost the 4 games to the Warriors by 4, 6, 5, and 5.  The Warriors ended up sweeping the Blazers in the WCF without Durant before the injuries mounted up even more against the Raptors.  So sure, I can't say for sure that Houston would have beaten GS or won the Finals if Durant and Klay had missed that series, but it isn't a difficult conclusion to reach either.  The prior season they won 65 games and pushed the Warriors (with Durant) to 7 games in the WCF and lost the final two games without Chris Paul.  If he doesn't get hurt the Rockets probably beat the Warriors and then likely beat the Cavs in the Finals. 

[mmmmm]

One more move?

This team doesn't need to add a 'MVP' level guy to make the next level.  They need a good, solid starter-level, versatile wing to fill out their wing rotation.  Maybe Nesmith or Romeo emerges as that guy, but that's down the road.  We need someone now.

I think Danny will want to try to add one more veteran wing.  A lot depends on whether he can finagle a TPE or other asset out of CHA's signing of Hayward.

If he can get a TPE for that, he could potentially trade for a player making up to around ~22M or so while staying under the tax.

Harrison Barnes would be a perfect basketball fit and his contract fits right in that slot.   Not sure what it would take to pry him from the Kings, though.

Fournier is another guy to maybe go after.

If he can't get the large TPE, then he'll have to see what he can do with the 5M TPE he got for Kanter.

[PhoSita]

It all depends on the J's. If Tatum and Brown continue to develop, Tatum might be an MVP candidate and Brown might be an all star. If those things come to pass and Kemba is healthy, there's a nice roster of contributing players behind them (Smart, Thompson, Theis, Teague). There's also some young guys who might still contribute (Nesmith, Timelord, Langford) and if one of those guys break out then, yeah, we could be adding a vet wing away from a title.

There's a lot of "ifs" there but no crazy predictions.

Yep, this is what it comes down to.  This team will go wherever Jay and Jay take them.

I'm OK with that.  Should be a fun ride.

 

We saw last year the super high level Tatum can hit when he put up 30 pts 8 reb 3 ast on blazing hot shooting in January. 

If Tatum can be at that level for several playoff series in a row, and both Kemba and Jaylen are playing well scoring 20+ on good efficiency as well, the Celts will have a chance against anyone.

[RJ87]

Harrison Barnes would be a perfect basketball fit and his contract fits right in that slot.   Not sure what it would take to pry him from the Kings, though.

This would be a perfect move to fill out our rotation.

[Darth_Yoda]

It all depends on the J's. If Tatum and Brown continue to develop, Tatum might be an MVP candidate and Brown might be an all star. If those things come to pass and Kemba is healthy, there's a nice roster of contributing players behind them (Smart, Thompson, Theis, Teague). There's also some young guys who might still contribute (Nesmith, Timelord, Langford) and if one of those guys break out then, yeah, we could be adding a vet wing away from a title.

There's a lot of "ifs" there but no crazy predictions.

Yep, this is what it comes down to.  This team will go wherever Jay and Jay take them.

I'm OK with that.  Should be a fun ride.

 

We saw last year the super high level Tatum can hit when he put up 30 pts 8 reb 3 ast on blazing hot shooting in January. 

If Tatum can be at that level for several playoff series in a row, and both Kemba and Jaylen are playing well scoring 20+ on good efficiency as well, the Celts will have a chance against anyone.

Tatum in the Playoffs
26ppg, 10rpg, 5apg, 1spg, 1bpg

Brown in Playoffs
22ppg, 7.5rpg, 2.5apg, 1.5spg, 0.5bpg

Kemba Walker in Playoffs
20ppg, 4rpg, 5apg, 1spg, .5bpg

That is 66 points, 21.5rpg, 12.5apg, 3.5spg, 2bpg per game. Not many trios in the league doing better than that. And we just added a lethal shooter to the team and very, very solid frontcourt defense/rebounding

[Darth_Yoda]

One more move?

This team doesn't need to add a 'MVP' level guy to make the next level.  They need a good, solid starter-level, versatile wing to fill out their wing rotation.  Maybe Nesmith or Romeo emerges as that guy, but that's down the road.  We need someone now.

I think Danny will want to try to add one more veteran wing.  A lot depends on whether he can finagle a TPE or other asset out of CHA's signing of Hayward.

If he can get a TPE for that, he could potentially trade for a player making up to around ~22M or so while staying under the tax.

Harrison Barnes would be a perfect basketball fit and his contract fits right in that slot.   Not sure what it would take to pry him from the Kings, though.

Fournier is another guy to maybe go after.

If he can't get the large TPE, then he'll have to see what he can do with the 5M TPE he got for Kanter.

On Barnes, we think alike, I have been posting on him for a bit now.

I think it wouldnt take much honestly. he is a 67 million dollar bench player for them, and they are very much in the early stages of a rebuild.
Trading him for a pick and the TPE would save them a boatload of money and open up the ability to sign free agents sooner.

[Kernewek]

The Celts are one move away in the sense that every team that lacks a clear cut MVP player is one major move away.



The easiest way for this roster to pop would be if one of the guys they've drafted in the last few years makes an unexpected leap.

Otherwise, we know what we've got. Tatum is a signature star in the NBA, an All NBA fixture for years to come, but not yet a top 5 guy. Kemba and Brown are very nice secondary stars who may or may not make All Star.  Smart is an elite defensive role player.  Mixed bag of role players and young guys otherwise.


The Celts enter this next season in much the same position they were in at the end of their bubble playoff run. That's both good and bad.

How many teams with clear cut MVP players are legit contenders?

Giannis hasn’t made a Finals. Harden and Westbrook didn’t make it since ascending to MVP-level players.

Teams with MVP’s are sometimes further away than a team like ours. Look at the flurry of moves Milwaukee made after running away with the best record.

1. Making the finals or being unable to do so doesn't really determine whether a team is a title contender or not. Milwaukee had two fantastic seasons by smashing indicators that are more reliable than playoff wins that have a ton of variance while Houston had some really good years with Harden as their centrepiece (they almost beat one of the most dominant teams of all time), those teams were absolutely good enough to win NBA titles.

I think there's merit to this, but I also think that you can be a very good team without being a title contender.  Ultimately, in order for a team to hit that bar they would actually have to put themselves into title contention.

Houston's "very good years" with Harden resulted in more first round playoff exits than Conference Finals appearances. As memory serves, with the exception of the WCF loss to the Warriors three years ago, none of their exits were particularly competitive:

'13: 2-4 against the Thunder in the first round
'14: 2-4 against the Trail Blazers in the first round
'15: 1-4 against the Warriors in the WCF
'16: 1-4 against the Warriors in the first round
'17: 2-4 against San Antonio in the Semis
'18: 3-4 against the Warriors In the WCF
'19: 2-4 against the Warriors in the Semis
'20: 1-4 against the Lakers in the Semis

What's the old saying, almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades? At a certain point, if you can't make it to the NBA Finals you self-evidently cannot be good enough to win them.

Milwaukee is a special case so far but save this year they've shown solid incremental improvement around Giannis. Time will tell with them.

Their run from '17 to '19 were title contending years imo, Harden really started hitting his stride in '17. Pushing some fantastic teams to 6 games or more is competitive.

Btw the bolded can only start to hold true with dozens or even hundreds of simulations, it is very much possible for a title contender to lose in the conference semifinals or finals to other really good teams in a few years. Heck, it's even possible for a team that's good enough to win an NBA title to lose to an eighth seed (see the '07 Mavericks)!

Sure. I just don't think Harden in Houston qualifies, even if we shorten the window.

San Antonio with Duncan is the platonic ideal of what you would expect to see: from '97 to '13 they had multiple deep playoff runs, three first-round outs, and five titles in seven finals appearances. LeBron's Heat (or really "any team with LeBron James" for the last 10 years or so) and Golden State with 4+ straight finals appearances, Chicago with Jordan obviously, Los Angeles with Kobe & Shaq in the late '90s to the turn of the century (and a minor reprise after the Gasol trade), so on and so forth.

The obvious rejoinder here is that yes, of course, winning distorts the history of the season... but this isn't football - you don't get a prize for the regular season. For me, Harden on the Rockets is about on par with Iverson with the 76ers.  Good team, just not really good enough.

Houston was the 2nd best team in the world for a 2 to 3 year period.  They weren't better than the Warriors, but no one was.  Had the injuries to Durant, Klay, etc. happened earlier, Houston probably wins the title that Toronto won.   

This is a wonderful hypothetical delivered as an assertion

I assume you are ready with all manner of glorious discussion points regarding points per possession, pace, wins per 100 games, strength of schedule, ORtg/DRtg differential and all sorts of other filigree to disguise the fact that Houston, having claimed the #1 seed in the West once in the regular season (the same year they got bounced by Golden state in the WCF), were the undisputed second chair for multiple seasons.

Let me save you your time. I don't agree with that assertion. They had one great year. They had a few good years. Ultimately they always lost as they played: with a complete absence of grace,  joy, and any redeeming aesthetic quality.

Two years ago, it is true they were the 4th seed, but they had the same record as the 3rd seed and 1 less win than the 2nd seed.  They destroyed a 50 win Jazz team in 5 games in the 1st round before losing in 6 to the Warriors in the Semis.  They lost the 4 games to the Warriors by 4, 6, 5, and 5.  The Warriors ended up sweeping the Blazers in the WCF without Durant before the injuries mounted up even more against the Raptors.  So sure, I can't say for sure that Houston would have beaten GS or won the Finals if Durant and Klay had missed that series, but it isn't a difficult conclusion to reach either.  The prior season they won 65 games and pushed the Warriors (with Durant) to 7 games in the WCF and lost the final two games without Chris Paul.  If he doesn't get hurt the Rockets probably beat the Warriors and then likely beat the Cavs in the Finals.

Yeah, that's fair, but the injury box is another one where it can be tricky to establish a proper ceiling for a team. What if Hayward doesn't break his leg? Do we win 3 titles with a healthy KG? What happens to Tracy McGrady? What happens to Shaun Livingston? Reggie? Len? &c.

Are they better with Chris Paul on the floor? Absolutely. Could they have beaten the Warriors? It looked like it. Did they? Nyet comrade, they did not.

[Big333223]

It all depends on the J's. If Tatum and Brown continue to develop, Tatum might be an MVP candidate and Brown might be an all star. If those things come to pass and Kemba is healthy, there's a nice roster of contributing players behind them (Smart, Thompson, Theis, Teague). There's also some young guys who might still contribute (Nesmith, Timelord, Langford) and if one of those guys break out then, yeah, we could be adding a vet wing away from a title.

There's a lot of "ifs" there but no crazy predictions.

Yep, this is what it comes down to.  This team will go wherever Jay and Jay take them.

I'm OK with that.  Should be a fun ride.

 

We saw last year the super high level Tatum can hit when he put up 30 pts 8 reb 3 ast on blazing hot shooting in January. 

If Tatum can be at that level for several playoff series in a row, and both Kemba and Jaylen are playing well scoring 20+ on good efficiency as well, the Celts will have a chance against anyone.

Tatum in the Playoffs
26ppg, 10rpg, 5apg, 1spg, 1bpg

Brown in Playoffs
22ppg, 7.5rpg, 2.5apg, 1.5spg, 0.5bpg

Kemba Walker in Playoffs
20ppg, 4rpg, 5apg, 1spg, .5bpg

That is 66 points, 21.5rpg, 12.5apg, 3.5spg, 2bpg per game. Not many trios in the league doing better than that. And we just added a lethal shooter to the team and very, very solid frontcourt defense/rebounding

That Tatum assist number in the playoffs is important, to me. He jumped from 3 in the regular season to 5 in 17 playoff games. Was the a blip or development? If it was real development, that's a new dimension to his game that's going to help the team and himself immensely. If he's putting up 25-7-5 next year, those are MVP caliber numbers.

[Darth_Yoda]

It all depends on the J's. If Tatum and Brown continue to develop, Tatum might be an MVP candidate and Brown might be an all star. If those things come to pass and Kemba is healthy, there's a nice roster of contributing players behind them (Smart, Thompson, Theis, Teague). There's also some young guys who might still contribute (Nesmith, Timelord, Langford) and if one of those guys break out then, yeah, we could be adding a vet wing away from a title.

There's a lot of "ifs" there but no crazy predictions.

Yep, this is what it comes down to.  This team will go wherever Jay and Jay take them.

I'm OK with that.  Should be a fun ride.

 

We saw last year the super high level Tatum can hit when he put up 30 pts 8 reb 3 ast on blazing hot shooting in January. 

If Tatum can be at that level for several playoff series in a row, and both Kemba and Jaylen are playing well scoring 20+ on good efficiency as well, the Celts will have a chance against anyone.

Tatum in the Playoffs
26ppg, 10rpg, 5apg, 1spg, 1bpg

Brown in Playoffs
22ppg, 7.5rpg, 2.5apg, 1.5spg, 0.5bpg

Kemba Walker in Playoffs
20ppg, 4rpg, 5apg, 1spg, .5bpg

That is 66 points, 21.5rpg, 12.5apg, 3.5spg, 2bpg per game. Not many trios in the league doing better than that. And we just added a lethal shooter to the team and very, very solid frontcourt defense/rebounding

That Tatum assist number in the playoffs is important, to me. He jumped from 3 in the regular season to 5 in 17 playoff games. Was the a blip or development? If it was real development, that's a new dimension to his game that's going to help the team and himself immensely. If he's putting up 25-7-5 next year, those are MVP caliber numbers.

I tend to lean towards it not being a blip. He was actively facilitating to get those assists.

[Moranis]

The Celts are one move away in the sense that every team that lacks a clear cut MVP player is one major move away.



The easiest way for this roster to pop would be if one of the guys they've drafted in the last few years makes an unexpected leap.

Otherwise, we know what we've got. Tatum is a signature star in the NBA, an All NBA fixture for years to come, but not yet a top 5 guy. Kemba and Brown are very nice secondary stars who may or may not make All Star.  Smart is an elite defensive role player.  Mixed bag of role players and young guys otherwise.


The Celts enter this next season in much the same position they were in at the end of their bubble playoff run. That's both good and bad.

How many teams with clear cut MVP players are legit contenders?

Giannis hasn’t made a Finals. Harden and Westbrook didn’t make it since ascending to MVP-level players.

Teams with MVP’s are sometimes further away than a team like ours. Look at the flurry of moves Milwaukee made after running away with the best record.

1. Making the finals or being unable to do so doesn't really determine whether a team is a title contender or not. Milwaukee had two fantastic seasons by smashing indicators that are more reliable than playoff wins that have a ton of variance while Houston had some really good years with Harden as their centrepiece (they almost beat one of the most dominant teams of all time), those teams were absolutely good enough to win NBA titles.

I think there's merit to this, but I also think that you can be a very good team without being a title contender.  Ultimately, in order for a team to hit that bar they would actually have to put themselves into title contention.

Houston's "very good years" with Harden resulted in more first round playoff exits than Conference Finals appearances. As memory serves, with the exception of the WCF loss to the Warriors three years ago, none of their exits were particularly competitive:

'13: 2-4 against the Thunder in the first round
'14: 2-4 against the Trail Blazers in the first round
'15: 1-4 against the Warriors in the WCF
'16: 1-4 against the Warriors in the first round
'17: 2-4 against San Antonio in the Semis
'18: 3-4 against the Warriors In the WCF
'19: 2-4 against the Warriors in the Semis
'20: 1-4 against the Lakers in the Semis

What's the old saying, almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades? At a certain point, if you can't make it to the NBA Finals you self-evidently cannot be good enough to win them.

Milwaukee is a special case so far but save this year they've shown solid incremental improvement around Giannis. Time will tell with them.

Their run from '17 to '19 were title contending years imo, Harden really started hitting his stride in '17. Pushing some fantastic teams to 6 games or more is competitive.

Btw the bolded can only start to hold true with dozens or even hundreds of simulations, it is very much possible for a title contender to lose in the conference semifinals or finals to other really good teams in a few years. Heck, it's even possible for a team that's good enough to win an NBA title to lose to an eighth seed (see the '07 Mavericks)!

Sure. I just don't think Harden in Houston qualifies, even if we shorten the window.

San Antonio with Duncan is the platonic ideal of what you would expect to see: from '97 to '13 they had multiple deep playoff runs, three first-round outs, and five titles in seven finals appearances. LeBron's Heat (or really "any team with LeBron James" for the last 10 years or so) and Golden State with 4+ straight finals appearances, Chicago with Jordan obviously, Los Angeles with Kobe & Shaq in the late '90s to the turn of the century (and a minor reprise after the Gasol trade), so on and so forth.

The obvious rejoinder here is that yes, of course, winning distorts the history of the season... but this isn't football - you don't get a prize for the regular season. For me, Harden on the Rockets is about on par with Iverson with the 76ers.  Good team, just not really good enough.

Houston was the 2nd best team in the world for a 2 to 3 year period.  They weren't better than the Warriors, but no one was.  Had the injuries to Durant, Klay, etc. happened earlier, Houston probably wins the title that Toronto won.   

This is a wonderful hypothetical delivered as an assertion

I assume you are ready with all manner of glorious discussion points regarding points per possession, pace, wins per 100 games, strength of schedule, ORtg/DRtg differential and all sorts of other filigree to disguise the fact that Houston, having claimed the #1 seed in the West once in the regular season (the same year they got bounced by Golden state in the WCF), were the undisputed second chair for multiple seasons.

Let me save you your time. I don't agree with that assertion. They had one great year. They had a few good years. Ultimately they always lost as they played: with a complete absence of grace,  joy, and any redeeming aesthetic quality.

Two years ago, it is true they were the 4th seed, but they had the same record as the 3rd seed and 1 less win than the 2nd seed.  They destroyed a 50 win Jazz team in 5 games in the 1st round before losing in 6 to the Warriors in the Semis.  They lost the 4 games to the Warriors by 4, 6, 5, and 5.  The Warriors ended up sweeping the Blazers in the WCF without Durant before the injuries mounted up even more against the Raptors.  So sure, I can't say for sure that Houston would have beaten GS or won the Finals if Durant and Klay had missed that series, but it isn't a difficult conclusion to reach either.  The prior season they won 65 games and pushed the Warriors (with Durant) to 7 games in the WCF and lost the final two games without Chris Paul.  If he doesn't get hurt the Rockets probably beat the Warriors and then likely beat the Cavs in the Finals.

Yeah, that's fair, but the injury box is another one where it can be tricky to establish a proper ceiling for a team. What if Hayward doesn't break his leg? Do we win 3 titles with a healthy KG? What happens to Tracy McGrady? What happens to Shaun Livingston? Reggie? Len? &c.

Are they better with Chris Paul on the floor? Absolutely. Could they have beaten the Warriors? It looked like it. Did they? Nyet comrade, they did not.

Right, which is why I said they were the 2nd best team in the world those two seasons.  Only the Warriors were better.  That was the argument that I was making i.e. that the Rockets with Harden were the 2nd best team in the world such that Harden was clearly good enough to be the best player on a title team.

[tstorey_97]

It all depends on the J's. If Tatum and Brown continue to develop, Tatum might be an MVP candidate and Brown might be an all star. If those things come to pass and Kemba is healthy, there's a nice roster of contributing players behind them (Smart, Thompson, Theis, Teague). There's also some young guys who might still contribute (Nesmith, Timelord, Langford) and if one of those guys break out then, yeah, we could be adding a vet wing away from a title.

There's a lot of "ifs" there but no crazy predictions.

Yep, this is what it comes down to.  This team will go wherever Jay and Jay take them.

I'm OK with that.  Should be a fun ride.

 

We saw last year the super high level Tatum can hit when he put up 30 pts 8 reb 3 ast on blazing hot shooting in January. 

If Tatum can be at that level for several playoff series in a row, and both Kemba and Jaylen are playing well scoring 20+ on good efficiency as well, the Celts will have a chance against anyone.

Tatum in the Playoffs
26ppg, 10rpg, 5apg, 1spg, 1bpg

Brown in Playoffs
22ppg, 7.5rpg, 2.5apg, 1.5spg, 0.5bpg

Kemba Walker in Playoffs
20ppg, 4rpg, 5apg, 1spg, .5bpg

That is 66 points, 21.5rpg, 12.5apg, 3.5spg, 2bpg per game. Not many trios in the league doing better than that. And we just added a lethal shooter to the team and very, very solid frontcourt defense/rebounding

That Tatum assist number in the playoffs is important, to me. He jumped from 3 in the regular season to 5 in 17 playoff games. Was the a blip or development? If it was real development, that's a new dimension to his game that's going to help the team and himself immensely. If he's putting up 25-7-5 next year, those are MVP caliber numbers.

   TP to Big333223

He is on the court with really good team mates, he is a great athlete with superior vision....pass the ball!

As he figured out the occasional double team...he started to do it and it made the team better.

[Darth_Yoda]

It all depends on the J's. If Tatum and Brown continue to develop, Tatum might be an MVP candidate and Brown might be an all star. If those things come to pass and Kemba is healthy, there's a nice roster of contributing players behind them (Smart, Thompson, Theis, Teague). There's also some young guys who might still contribute (Nesmith, Timelord, Langford) and if one of those guys break out then, yeah, we could be adding a vet wing away from a title.

There's a lot of "ifs" there but no crazy predictions.

Yep, this is what it comes down to.  This team will go wherever Jay and Jay take them.

I'm OK with that.  Should be a fun ride.

 

We saw last year the super high level Tatum can hit when he put up 30 pts 8 reb 3 ast on blazing hot shooting in January. 

If Tatum can be at that level for several playoff series in a row, and both Kemba and Jaylen are playing well scoring 20+ on good efficiency as well, the Celts will have a chance against anyone.

Tatum in the Playoffs
26ppg, 10rpg, 5apg, 1spg, 1bpg

Brown in Playoffs
22ppg, 7.5rpg, 2.5apg, 1.5spg, 0.5bpg

Kemba Walker in Playoffs
20ppg, 4rpg, 5apg, 1spg, .5bpg

That is 66 points, 21.5rpg, 12.5apg, 3.5spg, 2bpg per game. Not many trios in the league doing better than that. And we just added a lethal shooter to the team and very, very solid frontcourt defense/rebounding

That Tatum assist number in the playoffs is important, to me. He jumped from 3 in the regular season to 5 in 17 playoff games. Was the a blip or development? If it was real development, that's a new dimension to his game that's going to help the team and himself immensely. If he's putting up 25-7-5 next year, those are MVP caliber numbers.

   TP to Big333223

He is on the court with really good team mates, he is a great athlete with superior vision....pass the ball!

As he figured out the occasional double team...he started to do it and it made the team better.

This is what I see benefiting him with assists is Nesmith and Thompson.

Thompson is excellent at rolling to the rim and making himself available for passes (He did play off Lebron) and NEsmith is the best shooter in the draft. They both will be recipients of Tatum dishes.

[Big333223]

It all depends on the J's. If Tatum and Brown continue to develop, Tatum might be an MVP candidate and Brown might be an all star. If those things come to pass and Kemba is healthy, there's a nice roster of contributing players behind them (Smart, Thompson, Theis, Teague). There's also some young guys who might still contribute (Nesmith, Timelord, Langford) and if one of those guys break out then, yeah, we could be adding a vet wing away from a title.

There's a lot of "ifs" there but no crazy predictions.

Yep, this is what it comes down to.  This team will go wherever Jay and Jay take them.

I'm OK with that.  Should be a fun ride.

 

We saw last year the super high level Tatum can hit when he put up 30 pts 8 reb 3 ast on blazing hot shooting in January. 

If Tatum can be at that level for several playoff series in a row, and both Kemba and Jaylen are playing well scoring 20+ on good efficiency as well, the Celts will have a chance against anyone.

Tatum in the Playoffs
26ppg, 10rpg, 5apg, 1spg, 1bpg

Brown in Playoffs
22ppg, 7.5rpg, 2.5apg, 1.5spg, 0.5bpg

Kemba Walker in Playoffs
20ppg, 4rpg, 5apg, 1spg, .5bpg

That is 66 points, 21.5rpg, 12.5apg, 3.5spg, 2bpg per game. Not many trios in the league doing better than that. And we just added a lethal shooter to the team and very, very solid frontcourt defense/rebounding

That Tatum assist number in the playoffs is important, to me. He jumped from 3 in the regular season to 5 in 17 playoff games. Was the a blip or development? If it was real development, that's a new dimension to his game that's going to help the team and himself immensely. If he's putting up 25-7-5 next year, those are MVP caliber numbers.

   TP to Big333223

He is on the court with really good team mates, he is a great athlete with superior vision....pass the ball!

As he figured out the occasional double team...he started to do it and it made the team better.

This is what I see benefiting him with assists is Nesmith and Thompson.

Thompson is excellent at rolling to the rim and making himself available for passes (He did play off Lebron) and NEsmith is the best shooter in the draft. They both will be recipients of Tatum dishes.

Definitely.

The other thing that'll help is going to be Hayward being gone. Tatum looked great in the bubble when Hayward went down and Tatum moved up a rung on the ballhandler ladder. This season, Tatum is going to be running the show a lot.

[MichiganAdam]

If jt can take that step up on running the show and dishing at 5 yo 7 a game and just get physically a little stronger now he is getting into LeBron territory with better pure shooting ability. LeBron just did it sooner.

[Darth_Yoda]

It all depends on the J's. If Tatum and Brown continue to develop, Tatum might be an MVP candidate and Brown might be an all star. If those things come to pass and Kemba is healthy, there's a nice roster of contributing players behind them (Smart, Thompson, Theis, Teague). There's also some young guys who might still contribute (Nesmith, Timelord, Langford) and if one of those guys break out then, yeah, we could be adding a vet wing away from a title.

There's a lot of "ifs" there but no crazy predictions.

Yep, this is what it comes down to.  This team will go wherever Jay and Jay take them.

I'm OK with that.  Should be a fun ride.

 

We saw last year the super high level Tatum can hit when he put up 30 pts 8 reb 3 ast on blazing hot shooting in January. 

If Tatum can be at that level for several playoff series in a row, and both Kemba and Jaylen are playing well scoring 20+ on good efficiency as well, the Celts will have a chance against anyone.

Tatum in the Playoffs
26ppg, 10rpg, 5apg, 1spg, 1bpg

Brown in Playoffs
22ppg, 7.5rpg, 2.5apg, 1.5spg, 0.5bpg

Kemba Walker in Playoffs
20ppg, 4rpg, 5apg, 1spg, .5bpg

That is 66 points, 21.5rpg, 12.5apg, 3.5spg, 2bpg per game. Not many trios in the league doing better than that. And we just added a lethal shooter to the team and very, very solid frontcourt defense/rebounding

That Tatum assist number in the playoffs is important, to me. He jumped from 3 in the regular season to 5 in 17 playoff games. Was the a blip or development? If it was real development, that's a new dimension to his game that's going to help the team and himself immensely. If he's putting up 25-7-5 next year, those are MVP caliber numbers.

   TP to Big333223

He is on the court with really good team mates, he is a great athlete with superior vision....pass the ball!

As he figured out the occasional double team...he started to do it and it made the team better.

This is what I see benefiting him with assists is Nesmith and Thompson.

Thompson is excellent at rolling to the rim and making himself available for passes (He did play off Lebron) and NEsmith is the best shooter in the draft. They both will be recipients of Tatum dishes.

Definitely.

The other thing that'll help is going to be Hayward being gone. Tatum looked great in the bubble when Hayward went down and Tatum moved up a rung on the ballhandler ladder. This season, Tatum is going to be running the show a lot.

I can see A 27PPG, 8 RPG, 6 APG SEASON.