Explain - Why No TPE With The Hayward Trade?

[Roy H.]

  Hi, guys. Enjoying the discussion. It’s informative. Can you give some of us that don’t understand all this an idea of what this could mean?
   I’m reading best case but possible scenario is habit g 28 mil to spend? Is this true as the best case? My next question would be could we afford this player beyond this year if it is that expensive of a player? I realize there may be a ton of bariables but I thought I’d try to ask anyways. Thanks.
 
 

We would have $28 million that we could use to acquire a player in trade or to claim a player off waivers.  It would last one year, meaning that we could use it at the trade deadline or next off-season.

It’s very unlikely that we’d use its full value this season, as we are unable to spend beyond the “apron” (luxury tax plus $6 million).   The team probably doesn’t want to spend beyond the tax itself ($132 million).

We’re at $100 million now, with TT, Teague and the rookies unaccounted for..  that’s roughly $16 - $18 million (depending on Teague’s salary).  So, assuming $117 million, the most we’d take in this year is probably $15 million or so).

[SteveD]

Think Charlotte might have Eyes for Horford as well?

I can see OKC moving him as they are in full cap shedding/pick acquisition.

Also Knicks really wanted Scary Terry, perhaps a deal can be made to save Jordan from having to waive Batum (saving him money) and getting him Al Horford to man the middle.

Rozier to NYK
Zeller and Boston 1st to OKC
Horford and Hayward to Charlotte
Large TPE to Boston

Who says no?
NYK upgrades
OKC saves money and adds a pick (its what they do)
Charlotte makes playoffs
Boston gets their TPE


Or just
Hayward to Charlotte
Zeller to Sacramento
Barnes to Boston

I think Danny Ainge values 1st round draft picks a lot more than TPEs.

[celts55]

  Hi, guys. Enjoying the discussion. It’s informative. Can you give some of us that don’t understand all this an idea of what this could mean?
   I’m reading best case but possible scenario is habit g 28 mil to spend? Is this true as the best case? My next question would be could we afford this player beyond this year if it is that expensive of a player? I realize there may be a ton of bariables but I thought I’d try to ask anyways. Thanks.
 
 

We would have $28 million that we could use to acquire a player in trade or to claim a player off waivers.  It would last one year, meaning that we could use it at the trade deadline or next off-season.

It’s very unlikely that we’d use its full value this season, as we are unable to spend beyond the “apron” (luxury tax plus $6 million).   The team probably doesn’t want to spend beyond the tax itself ($132 million).

We’re at $100 million now, with TT, Teague and the rookies unaccounted for..  that’s roughly $16 - $18 million (depending on Teague’s salary).  So, assuming $117 million, the most we’d take in this year is probably $15 million or so).

I would imagine they could sign someone decent for 15 million.

[KGs Knee]

I wouldn't expect a TPE out this. Charlotte really has no good reason to unless Danny is willing to give them something. Danny is too cheap for that, though.

They do actually.

Danny helped Charlotte out a ton last year by doing a sign and trade with Kemba, allowing them to get Rozier.

It is EXACTLY the same thing essentially.

Jordan will do the TPE back, I will be shocked if he doesnt.

If nothing else, it's just good business to not p--- off your fellow GMs for no good reason, as you will have to work with them for future trades.

And it is basically an absolute freebie way for CHA to gain an assett.  It costs them nothing to execute the signing as a sign & trade and they gain whatever asset Danny sends to them for doing so.

No reason for CHA to not do this.

Danny being Danny is all the reason in the world for Charlotte not to do a S&T with him. Charlotte has the leverage here, not Boston. If Danny isn't willing to pay their price it won't happen.

My money is on Danny continuing to be himself and getting nothing.

[nickagneta]

I wouldn't expect a TPE out this. Charlotte really has no good reason to unless Danny is willing to give them something. Danny is too cheap for that, though.

They do actually.

Danny helped Charlotte out a ton last year by doing a sign and trade with Kemba, allowing them to get Rozier.

It is EXACTLY the same thing essentially.

Jordan will do the TPE back, I will be shocked if he doesnt.

If nothing else, it's just good business to not p--- off your fellow GMs for no good reason, as you will have to work with them for future trades.

And it is basically an absolute freebie way for CHA to gain an assett.  It costs them nothing to execute the signing as a sign & trade and they gain whatever asset Danny sends to them for doing so.

No reason for CHA to not do this.

Danny being Danny is all the reason in the world for Charlotte not to do a S&T with him. Charlotte has the leverage here, not Boston. If Danny isn't willing to pay their price it won't happen.

My money is on Danny continuing to be himself and getting nothing.

If Charlotte is going to stretch Batum anyway, why wouldn't they do the sign and trade for either two 2nd rounders or a future first with protections that descend into two seconds.

Charlotte can either get Hayward or Hayward and two seconds or a protected first. Why wouldn't they do the sign and trade to get the extra asset(s)?

[KGs Knee]

I wouldn't expect a TPE out this. Charlotte really has no good reason to unless Danny is willing to give them something. Danny is too cheap for that, though.

They do actually.

Danny helped Charlotte out a ton last year by doing a sign and trade with Kemba, allowing them to get Rozier.

It is EXACTLY the same thing essentially.

Jordan will do the TPE back, I will be shocked if he doesnt.

If nothing else, it's just good business to not p--- off your fellow GMs for no good reason, as you will have to work with them for future trades.

And it is basically an absolute freebie way for CHA to gain an assett.  It costs them nothing to execute the signing as a sign & trade and they gain whatever asset Danny sends to them for doing so.

No reason for CHA to not do this.

Danny being Danny is all the reason in the world for Charlotte not to do a S&T with him. Charlotte has the leverage here, not Boston. If Danny isn't willing to pay their price it won't happen.

My money is on Danny continuing to be himself and getting nothing.

If Charlotte is going to stretch Batum anyway, why wouldn't they do the sign and trade for either two 2nd rounders or a future first with protections that descend into two seconds.

Charlotte can either get Hayward or Hayward and two seconds or a protected first. Why wouldn't they do the sign and trade to get the extra asset(s)?

I think they would do that.  I don't think Danny will be willing to part with such assets.

[BitterJim]

Think Charlotte might have Eyes for Horford as well?

I can see OKC moving him as they are in full cap shedding/pick acquisition.

Also Knicks really wanted Scary Terry, perhaps a deal can be made to save Jordan from having to waive Batum (saving him money) and getting him Al Horford to man the middle.

Rozier to NYK
Zeller and Boston 1st to OKC
Horford and Hayward to Charlotte
Large TPE to Boston

Who says no?
NYK upgrades
OKC saves money and adds a pick (its what they do)
Charlotte makes playoffs
Boston gets their TPE


Or just
Hayward to Charlotte
Zeller to Sacramento
Barnes to Boston

I think Danny Ainge values 1st round draft picks a lot more than TPEs.

Everybody should value a first over a TPE. TheY offer great flexability, but their value isn't as high as having 4+ years of a cost controlled player

If you had something already lined up to use the TPE, that would be different (and possibly worth a first), but just a TPE isn't

[Tr1boy]

I wouldn't expect a TPE out this. Charlotte really has no good reason to unless Danny is willing to give them something. Danny is too cheap for that, though.

They do actually.

Danny helped Charlotte out a ton last year by doing a sign and trade with Kemba, allowing them to get Rozier.

It is EXACTLY the same thing essentially.

Jordan will do the TPE back, I will be shocked if he doesnt.

If nothing else, it's just good business to not p--- off your fellow GMs for no good reason, as you will have to work with them for future trades.

And it is basically an absolute freebie way for CHA to gain an assett.  It costs them nothing to execute the signing as a sign & trade and they gain whatever asset Danny sends to them for doing so.

No reason for CHA to not do this.

Danny being Danny is all the reason in the world for Charlotte not to do a S&T with him. Charlotte has the leverage here, not Boston. If Danny isn't willing to pay their price it won't happen.

My money is on Danny continuing to be himself and getting nothing.

If Charlotte is going to stretch Batum anyway, why wouldn't they do the sign and trade for either two 2nd rounders or a future first with protections that descend into two seconds.

Charlotte can either get Hayward or Hayward and two seconds or a protected first. Why wouldn't they do the sign and trade to get the extra asset(s)?

I think they would do that.  I don't think Danny will be willing to part with such assets.

hoarder Danny loves his picks

he was highly reluctant to give up a 2nd for Kyrie (IT4 medical report situation)

[BitterJim]

I wouldn't expect a TPE out this. Charlotte really has no good reason to unless Danny is willing to give them something. Danny is too cheap for that, though.

They do actually.

Danny helped Charlotte out a ton last year by doing a sign and trade with Kemba, allowing them to get Rozier.

It is EXACTLY the same thing essentially.

Jordan will do the TPE back, I will be shocked if he doesnt.

If nothing else, it's just good business to not p--- off your fellow GMs for no good reason, as you will have to work with them for future trades.

Danny refused to do a sign and trade with Utah 3 years ago when Hayward signed with us. I think they wanted Crowder back so we could have kept Kelly or Bradley but he refused.
Last year Danny wouldn’t do the sign and trade with Charlotte until they agreed to give us that second round pick swap to us..... I think both Charlotte and Utah weren’t very pleased with Danny at the time

Where did you hear Charlotte wasn’t pleased with us?  We gave them an asset for about the smallest return possible?

And do you have a link to the Utah stuff?  Why would we randomly give them Crowder for free?

Jazz talks 2017:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-celtics-jazz-engaged-in-sign-and-trade-talks-involving-hayward-crowder/amp/

Hornets talks I can’t find a link but the sign and trade didn’t get official until the pick swap came out way... like it didn’t happen first thing when free agency started it took a week or so

Neither of those sound like something a GM would be upset about... a team not trading a good, cost controlled player just to avoid making another trade, or asking for a swap of second rounders to help a team acquire a player sounds pretty normal

If Ainge had refused to do a sign and trade with the Jazz where they gave us a second (instead of us giving them a good player/contract in Crowder), or had demanded too much from the Hornets (say, a first rounder), then them being upset would make sense. But neither of those was Danny being a jerk or asking for too much

[BitterJim]

I wouldn't expect a TPE out this. Charlotte really has no good reason to unless Danny is willing to give them something. Danny is too cheap for that, though.

They do actually.

Danny helped Charlotte out a ton last year by doing a sign and trade with Kemba, allowing them to get Rozier.

It is EXACTLY the same thing essentially.

Jordan will do the TPE back, I will be shocked if he doesnt.

If nothing else, it's just good business to not p--- off your fellow GMs for no good reason, as you will have to work with them for future trades.

And it is basically an absolute freebie way for CHA to gain an assett.  It costs them nothing to execute the signing as a sign & trade and they gain whatever asset Danny sends to them for doing so.

No reason for CHA to not do this.

Danny being Danny is all the reason in the world for Charlotte not to do a S&T with him. Charlotte has the leverage here, not Boston. If Danny isn't willing to pay their price it won't happen.

My money is on Danny continuing to be himself and getting nothing.

If Charlotte is going to stretch Batum anyway, why wouldn't they do the sign and trade for either two 2nd rounders or a future first with protections that descend into two seconds.

Charlotte can either get Hayward or Hayward and two seconds or a protected first. Why wouldn't they do the sign and trade to get the extra asset(s)?

I think they would do that.  I don't think Danny will be willing to part with such assets.

hoarder Danny loves his picks

he was highly reluctant to give up a 2nd for Kyrie (IT4 medical report situation)

They came to an agreement initially with everyone and their mothers knowing that IT's hip was hurt, and then Altman came back later and asked for more because IT's hip was hurt.

I would have more of a problem if our GM was just throwing picks around willy-nilly whenever another GM decided they wanted more than was previously agreed on...

[hwangjini_1]

I wouldn't expect a TPE out this. Charlotte really has no good reason to unless Danny is willing to give them something. Danny is too cheap for that, though.

They do actually.

Danny helped Charlotte out a ton last year by doing a sign and trade with Kemba, allowing them to get Rozier.

It is EXACTLY the same thing essentially.

Jordan will do the TPE back, I will be shocked if he doesnt.

If nothing else, it's just good business to not p--- off your fellow GMs for no good reason, as you will have to work with them for future trades.

And it is basically an absolute freebie way for CHA to gain an assett.  It costs them nothing to execute the signing as a sign & trade and they gain whatever asset Danny sends to them for doing so.

No reason for CHA to not do this.

Danny being Danny is all the reason in the world for Charlotte not to do a S&T with him. Charlotte has the leverage here, not Boston. If Danny isn't willing to pay their price it won't happen.

My money is on Danny continuing to be himself and getting nothing.

last year ainge did this same thing to help charlotte get a tpe, no? this is simply reversing the favor and charlotte would get a second round pick.

[boscel33]

WOW, this report doesn't shed good light on GH. 

Took the money and ran, rather than playing a reduced role on a winning team like the C's or going home.

Lot's of respect lost today for him.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/260546/Celtics-Pacers-Were-Each-Offering-Gordon-Hayward-Four-Year-$100M+-Contracts

Meant this for another thread, sorry, I can't delete......

[Darth_Yoda]

I wouldn't expect a TPE out this. Charlotte really has no good reason to unless Danny is willing to give them something. Danny is too cheap for that, though.

They do actually.

Danny helped Charlotte out a ton last year by doing a sign and trade with Kemba, allowing them to get Rozier.

It is EXACTLY the same thing essentially.

Jordan will do the TPE back, I will be shocked if he doesnt.

If nothing else, it's just good business to not p--- off your fellow GMs for no good reason, as you will have to work with them for future trades.

And it is basically an absolute freebie way for CHA to gain an assett.  It costs them nothing to execute the signing as a sign & trade and they gain whatever asset Danny sends to them for doing so.

No reason for CHA to not do this.

Danny being Danny is all the reason in the world for Charlotte not to do a S&T with him. Charlotte has the leverage here, not Boston. If Danny isn't willing to pay their price it won't happen.

My money is on Danny continuing to be himself and getting nothing.

last year ainge did this same thing to help charlotte get a tpe, no? this is simply reversing the favor and charlotte would get a second round pick.

Yes.

Apparently the slow down is that knicks are asking about getting rozier, and charlotte would rather trade him and preserve capspace or not waive batum.

This will end up being at least a 3 team deal

[Roy H.]

Apparently the slow down is that knicks are asking about getting rozier

Got a link?

[mmmmm]

I wouldn't expect a TPE out this. Charlotte really has no good reason to unless Danny is willing to give them something. Danny is too cheap for that, though.

They do actually.

Danny helped Charlotte out a ton last year by doing a sign and trade with Kemba, allowing them to get Rozier.

It is EXACTLY the same thing essentially.

Jordan will do the TPE back, I will be shocked if he doesnt.

If nothing else, it's just good business to not p--- off your fellow GMs for no good reason, as you will have to work with them for future trades.

And it is basically an absolute freebie way for CHA to gain an assett.  It costs them nothing to execute the signing as a sign & trade and they gain whatever asset Danny sends to them for doing so.

No reason for CHA to not do this.

Danny being Danny is all the reason in the world for Charlotte not to do a S&T with him. Charlotte has the leverage here, not Boston. If Danny isn't willing to pay their price it won't happen.

My money is on Danny continuing to be himself and getting nothing.

The only reason Danny wouldn't offer _something_ of value is if he didn't think there was any value in an S&T.   He's in negotiations for an S&T so clearly he thinks the value is above zero.

So if he offers that "above zero" value -- by definition a positive asset no matter how small -- it is a completely free asset for CHA by simply taking Hayward's salary in via S&T.

Again, BOS just helped CHA out last year in this exact same situation when they might have lost Kemba to free agency for nothing.    There is no reason that CHA wouldn't want to be given a free asset here.