Author Topic: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart  (Read 1679 times)

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Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2020, 12:45:49 PM »

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Bit off-topic, but I've got to admit it's hilarious seeing all the debates about whether people (C's fans) want Harden or not. Seems very split and each side has very strong feelings about it  :laugh:
Itís another case of Cs fans over valuing their current team. Harden is a legitimate top 3 player. Itís insane that people would say no to adding him to the Cs in order to see ďorganicĒ growth or whatever that means. Thatís not how the NBA works. NBA moves fast and super stars are always on the move, especially in this era of player empowerment. You need to cash in when you have the opportunity. Itís very unlikely that Tatum and Brown remain on the Cs after their first extension.


For me it is the worry that he may cause Tatum to want to move on like he did with Paul and Westbrook.   

Is it fair?   Probably not.   But it is still my main reason.
I mean, is it really his fault the Rockets traded for a declining player who canít shoot and needs the ball in hands to be effective Westbrook? The Rockets legit came a CP3 hamstring injury away from beating the loaded GS team. Do I think Harden has a big personality? Sure, heís not unlike many of the other diva superstars.   But heís an MVP caliber player and heís be by far the best player on this team.

Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2020, 12:50:16 PM »

Offline td450

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Bit off-topic, but I've got to admit it's hilarious seeing all the debates about whether people (C's fans) want Harden or not. Seems very split and each side has very strong feelings about it  :laugh:
Itís another case of Cs fans over valuing their current team. Harden is a legitimate top 3 player. Itís insane that people would say no to adding him to the Cs in order to see ďorganicĒ growth or whatever that means. Thatís not how the NBA works. NBA moves fast and super stars are always on the move, especially in this era of player empowerment. You need to cash in when you have the opportunity. Itís very unlikely that Tatum and Brown remain on the Cs after their first extension.
TP!!
Very on point ! If you go to any other teams blog and search for other teams fans opinion fo the Celtics fans they all say the same thing: delusional - even more delusional than Bill Simmons in the way they value their players
Like you would not see it so consistently among neutral fans targeted against other team fans that are hated like the lakers or now golden state warriors

We made the final 4 where a 22 yr old and a 23 yr old were our best players. They both played big when it counted (again), while Harden has a long history of disappearing acts in crucial playoff moments. Did I miss something?

Before last year when Tatum and Brown were mostly just young guys with potential and were posting 14-15 ppg, I could see the criticism. But it sometimes works out. They are going to be franchise level players. It isn't just optimism any more.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 12:55:53 PM by td450 »

Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2020, 01:03:24 PM »

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Harden is a top 5 player in the league.  He would instantly be Boston's best player for at least the next couple of seasons.  Of course Ainge is interested.  Heck, he tried to get Harden instead of Jeff Green years ago.  The only question is, does Ainge want to pay the price it will take for Houston to move Harden to Boston.  That is the only thing yet to be decided.  That I have no idea on, but Ainge is absolutely interested in Harden because Ainge is interested in every great player.

You are ignoring the disaster Kyrie Irving brought into our locker room, and how it demoralized Brad Stevens and the other players.  That all went down after any prior interest in Harden from Ainge. I seriously doubt he would bring that type player into our system again.  Plus his style of play is the antithesis of our coaching system. I would be shocked if Harden came to Boston. Shocked.

I think Ainge is realizing this team's best hope is to construct a team that will compete decently the next couple of years, and really reach its peak 3-5 years from now. Thus the reported interest in trading into a top 3 pick.
Harden is not Irving.  First, Irving is no where near as good.  Second, Irving has been a locker-room problem since he entered the league, Harden has not. 

James Harden is a top 5 player in the league.  He is one of the 3 greatest pure scorers in the history of the sport (behind only Wilt and Jordan).  His last 3 seasons, when accounting for pace, are very likely the greatest 3-year scoring span in league history.  He is an excellent passer as well.  James Harden is a legitimately great player and Ainge would absolutely bring him in if the price was right.

Ask yourself this question. Its the NBA finals and we have Tatum and Harden. The Lakers have LeBron and AD. How does that work out? Harden has never met the moment.

I'd rather go into that with Jaylen and a boatload of other assets any day of the week.
at least we'd be in the Finals.  The current team has basically no shot of getting there.  You add Harden, and then it is at least realistically possible. 
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Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2020, 01:10:55 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Harden is a top 5 player in the league.  He would instantly be Boston's best player for at least the next couple of seasons.  Of course Ainge is interested.  Heck, he tried to get Harden instead of Jeff Green years ago.  The only question is, does Ainge want to pay the price it will take for Houston to move Harden to Boston.  That is the only thing yet to be decided.  That I have no idea on, but Ainge is absolutely interested in Harden because Ainge is interested in every great player.

You are ignoring the disaster Kyrie Irving brought into our locker room, and how it demoralized Brad Stevens and the other players.  That all went down after any prior interest in Harden from Ainge. I seriously doubt he would bring that type player into our system again.  Plus his style of play is the antithesis of our coaching system. I would be shocked if Harden came to Boston. Shocked.

I think Ainge is realizing this team's best hope is to construct a team that will compete decently the next couple of years, and really reach its peak 3-5 years from now. Thus the reported interest in trading into a top 3 pick.
Harden is not Irving.  First, Irving is no where near as good.  Second, Irving has been a locker-room problem since he entered the league, Harden has not. 

James Harden is a top 5 player in the league.  He is one of the 3 greatest pure scorers in the history of the sport (behind only Wilt and Jordan).  His last 3 seasons, when accounting for pace, are very likely the greatest 3-year scoring span in league history.  He is an excellent passer as well.  James Harden is a legitimately great player and Ainge would absolutely bring him in if the price was right.

Ask yourself this question. Its the NBA finals and we have Tatum and Harden. The Lakers have LeBron and AD. How does that work out? Harden has never met the moment.

I'd rather go into that with Jaylen and a boatload of other assets any day of the week.
at least we'd be in the Finals.  The current team has basically no shot of getting there.  You add Harden, and then it is at least realistically possible.

This team (depending on what happens to Hayward) still has the chance to be in the Finals.  The Bucks still have a coach that doesn't adjust well in the playoffs.  The Nets are a big questions mark until we see Durant back on the floor.   The 76ers still haven't fix their issue. 



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Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2020, 01:12:34 PM »

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James Harden is fools gold. He'll turn Tatum and Brown into role players while he pounds the ball into dust and takes awful shots, and then he'll run them out of town for getting in his way, just like he did with CP3 and probably Westbrook. No thanks.
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Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2020, 02:36:22 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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Harden is a top 5 player in the league.  He would instantly be Boston's best player for at least the next couple of seasons.  Of course Ainge is interested.  Heck, he tried to get Harden instead of Jeff Green years ago.  The only question is, does Ainge want to pay the price it will take for Houston to move Harden to Boston.  That is the only thing yet to be decided.  That I have no idea on, but Ainge is absolutely interested in Harden because Ainge is interested in every great player.

You are ignoring the disaster Kyrie Irving brought into our locker room, and how it demoralized Brad Stevens and the other players.  That all went down after any prior interest in Harden from Ainge. I seriously doubt he would bring that type player into our system again.  Plus his style of play is the antithesis of our coaching system. I would be shocked if Harden came to Boston. Shocked.

I think Ainge is realizing this team's best hope is to construct a team that will compete decently the next couple of years, and really reach its peak 3-5 years from now. Thus the reported interest in trading into a top 3 pick.
Harden is not Irving.  First, Irving is no where near as good.  Second, Irving has been a locker-room problem since he entered the league, Harden has not. 

James Harden is a top 5 player in the league.  He is one of the 3 greatest pure scorers in the history of the sport (behind only Wilt and Jordan).  His last 3 seasons, when accounting for pace, are very likely the greatest 3-year scoring span in league history.  He is an excellent passer as well.  James Harden is a legitimately great player and Ainge would absolutely bring him in if the price was right.

Ask yourself this question. Its the NBA finals and we have Tatum and Harden. The Lakers have LeBron and AD. How does that work out? Harden has never met the moment.

I'd rather go into that with Jaylen and a boatload of other assets any day of the week.
at least we'd be in the Finals.  The current team has basically no shot of getting there.  You add Harden, and then it is at least realistically possible.

This team (depending on what happens to Hayward) still has the chance to be in the Finals.  The Bucks still have a coach that doesn't adjust well in the playoffs.  The Nets are a big questions mark until we see Durant back on the floor.   The 76ers still haven't fix their issue.

  We also have a coach who fails to adjust.

Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2020, 03:11:50 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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Harden is a top 5 player in the league.  He would instantly be Boston's best player for at least the next couple of seasons.  Of course Ainge is interested.  Heck, he tried to get Harden instead of Jeff Green years ago.  The only question is, does Ainge want to pay the price it will take for Houston to move Harden to Boston.  That is the only thing yet to be decided.  That I have no idea on, but Ainge is absolutely interested in Harden because Ainge is interested in every great player.

You are ignoring the disaster Kyrie Irving brought into our locker room, and how it demoralized Brad Stevens and the other players.  That all went down after any prior interest in Harden from Ainge. I seriously doubt he would bring that type player into our system again.  Plus his style of play is the antithesis of our coaching system. I would be shocked if Harden came to Boston. Shocked.

I think Ainge is realizing this team's best hope is to construct a team that will compete decently the next couple of years, and really reach its peak 3-5 years from now. Thus the reported interest in trading into a top 3 pick.
Harden is not Irving.  First, Irving is no where near as good.  Second, Irving has been a locker-room problem since he entered the league, Harden has not. 

James Harden is a top 5 player in the league.  He is one of the 3 greatest pure scorers in the history of the sport (behind only Wilt and Jordan).  His last 3 seasons, when accounting for pace, are very likely the greatest 3-year scoring span in league history.  He is an excellent passer as well.  James Harden is a legitimately great player and Ainge would absolutely bring him in if the price was right.

Ask yourself this question. Its the NBA finals and we have Tatum and Harden. The Lakers have LeBron and AD. How does that work out? Harden has never met the moment.

I'd rather go into that with Jaylen and a boatload of other assets any day of the week.
at least we'd be in the Finals.  The current team has basically no shot of getting there.  You add Harden, and then it is at least realistically possible.

Agree Celtics have no shot at getting to the next level with the current team.

Doubt Harden would do it. What  will improve the team is a "rim protector" whom the coach will play for 25 mins.
That may be tougher to do than trading for Harden.

Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2020, 03:12:30 PM »

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Harden is a top 5 player in the league.  He would instantly be Boston's best player for at least the next couple of seasons.  Of course Ainge is interested.  Heck, he tried to get Harden instead of Jeff Green years ago.  The only question is, does Ainge want to pay the price it will take for Houston to move Harden to Boston.  That is the only thing yet to be decided.  That I have no idea on, but Ainge is absolutely interested in Harden because Ainge is interested in every great player.

You are ignoring the disaster Kyrie Irving brought into our locker room, and how it demoralized Brad Stevens and the other players.  That all went down after any prior interest in Harden from Ainge. I seriously doubt he would bring that type player into our system again.  Plus his style of play is the antithesis of our coaching system. I would be shocked if Harden came to Boston. Shocked.

I think Ainge is realizing this team's best hope is to construct a team that will compete decently the next couple of years, and really reach its peak 3-5 years from now. Thus the reported interest in trading into a top 3 pick.
Harden is not Irving.  First, Irving is no where near as good.  Second, Irving has been a locker-room problem since he entered the league, Harden has not. 

James Harden is a top 5 player in the league.  He is one of the 3 greatest pure scorers in the history of the sport (behind only Wilt and Jordan).  His last 3 seasons, when accounting for pace, are very likely the greatest 3-year scoring span in league history.  He is an excellent passer as well.  James Harden is a legitimately great player and Ainge would absolutely bring him in if the price was right.

Ask yourself this question. Its the NBA finals and we have Tatum and Harden. The Lakers have LeBron and AD. How does that work out? Harden has never met the moment.

I'd rather go into that with Jaylen and a boatload of other assets any day of the week.
at least we'd be in the Finals.  The current team has basically no shot of getting there.  You add Harden, and then it is at least realistically possible.

This team (depending on what happens to Hayward) still has the chance to be in the Finals.  The Bucks still have a coach that doesn't adjust well in the playoffs.  The Nets are a big questions mark until we see Durant back on the floor.   The 76ers still haven't fix their issue.
About a 0.01% chance.  Boston is not a Finals team as currently constructed.  Might be as likely to lose in the first round as even make the ECF next year.  Milwaukee, Brooklyn, and Miami are all better (assuming Durant is healthy anyway).  Philadelphia is probably better as well. 

All the problems Boston had this year are still present.  No big men, lots of injury concerns, and 2 young guys that aren't quite ready to be the main cogs of a realistic title contender.  Boston is not a realistic contender, with Harden it absolutely would be.
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Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2020, 03:18:36 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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I think if Houston would do harden for kemba plus 7 picks and a couple swaps we should probably make the trade... it helps if you have a direction for the next 3-4 years

The Celtics may have the most weapons of any team to get Harden.  The question is whether they want to use those weapons. It may depend on whether Harden wants to come to Boston. They hesitated on Davis because they knew his agent was steering him to the LAL.

Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2020, 03:27:21 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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How many times has Harden led his team to the Finals?.....cough...cough....

It is sure not from not being around talented players so scratch that as an excuse....

From what I am hearing on other sites, he wants to play with players who have been there and won...Nets are his top team of choice

I would take a 21 year old Tatum over a 31 year old Harden every day of the week as well. Not that Tatum's name is being jacked around but I think it is foolish to think Harden could get us to the promised land over a yearly improving Tatum as the top dog.

Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2020, 05:26:55 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I really do find it peculiar how much talent analysis is driven by narrative. Harden is a much better playoff performer than Damian Lillard, yet Harden is the one who doesn't show up in big games, and Lillard is the one who is clutch in spite of his teammates.

Harden just had his best playoff run ever. 30/8/6 with elite efficiency (56% EFG and 64% TS%), less than 4 TOs per game, good defence (a DBPM of 1.9!) and was playing winning basketball. It was Westbrook, unsurprisingly, who tanked them.

We'd all be drooling if we had anyone capable of playing basketball that well
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Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2020, 05:28:07 PM »

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I really do find it peculiar how much talent analysis is driven by narrative. Harden is a much better playoff performer than Damian Lillard, yet Harden is the one who doesn't show up in big games, and Lillard is the one who is clutch in spite of his teammates.

Harden just had his best playoff run ever. 30/8/6 with elite efficiency (56% EFG and 64% TS%), less than 4 TOs per game, good defence (a DBPM of 1.9!) and was playing winning basketball. It was Westbrook, unsurprisingly, who tanked them.

We'd all be drooling if we had anyone capable of playing basketball that well

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Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2020, 05:29:32 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I really do find it peculiar how much talent analysis is driven by narrative. Harden is a much better playoff performer than Damian Lillard, yet Harden is the one who doesn't show up in big games, and Lillard is the one who is clutch in spite of his teammates.

Harden just had his best playoff run ever. 30/8/6 with elite efficiency (56% EFG and 64% TS%), less than 4 TOs per game, good defence (a DBPM of 1.9!) and was playing winning basketball. It was Westbrook, unsurprisingly, who tanked them.

We'd all be drooling if we had anyone capable of playing basketball that well

Don't you dare speak ill of one of my biggest binkies, Dame!
I actually really like Dame, and do buy into the point that he's let down by his team. I think opposition coaches are pretty happy to swarm Dame with 2 or 3 guys and let Melo try and beat them.

I just think Harden cops it more than he deserves, and is a great player.
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Re: Bringing in Harden, keeping Brown and Smart
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2020, 03:47:55 PM »

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https://tradenba.com/trades/2fwvbc2tf

Kemba, Young guns (Edwards, Romeo, Grant) and a bunch of 1ís for Harden. Call it in Danny!