Woj: Hayward to Charlotte (4 years, $120 million)

[gift]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

Very much so. Hayward made things run. The team still has potential but there's no one really driving that machine, luring the defense and then moving the ball, adding a secondary threat on every play.

[Moranis]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth. 

[footey]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth.

Bam or Jimmy?

[Moranis]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth.

Bam or Jimmy?

Butler. I thought that was obvious based on the description of the 2nd guy as Butler was not an all league defender last year.  Butler is also still the best player on either team (though Tatum has narrowed the gap this year).  Butler is a legit top 10 player in the league.  Superb player on both ends of the floor.  Bam was probably the 3rd best player in the series last year.  Dragic, Herro, AI2, KO, Nunn, Robinson, Leonard, etc. added a lot of strong depth surrounding their top 2 players. 

I think we all had hope that once Miami beat Milwaukee that Boston might actually break through, but I think we all underestimated just how good Miami was.  I know I did, and post-series I really didn't know why I doubted Miami as they have what you generally need to win a series i.e. the best player, another top 3/4 player, and a lot of good quality depth surrounding them.

Miami is 18-9 with Butler this year.  They are 4-10 without him.  And some of those wins with Butler they also were missing other players as guys like Herro, Nunn, and Dragic have all missed a bunch of games due to injury.  If healthy, Miami is a clear top 4 team in the East and may actually be the 2nd best team in the conference.  They are the real deal. 

[MattyIce]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth.

Bam or Jimmy?

Butler. I thought that was obvious based on the description of the 2nd guy as Butler was not an all league defender last year.  Butler is also still the best player on either team (though Tatum has narrowed the gap this year).  Butler is a legit top 10 player in the league.  Superb player on both ends of the floor.  Bam was probably the 3rd best player in the series last year.  Dragic, Herro, AI2, KO, Nunn, Robinson, Leonard, etc. added a lot of strong depth surrounding their top 2 players. 

I think we all had hope that once Miami beat Milwaukee that Boston might actually break through, but I think we all underestimated just how good Miami was.  I know I did, and post-series I really didn't know why I doubted Miami as they have what you generally need to win a series i.e. the best player, another top 3/4 player, and a lot of good quality depth surrounding them.

Miami is 18-9 with Butler this year.  They are 4-10 without him.  And some of those wins with Butler they also were missing other players as guys like Herro, Nunn, and Dragic have all missed a bunch of games due to injury.  If healthy, Miami is a clear top 4 team in the East and may actually be the 2nd best team in the conference.  They are the real deal.

agreed on most, but regardless, if we had a healthy Hayward very likely we would have beaten them

[Donoghus]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth.

Bam or Jimmy?

Butler. I thought that was obvious based on the description of the 2nd guy as Butler was not an all league defender last year.  Butler is also still the best player on either team (though Tatum has narrowed the gap this year).  Butler is a legit top 10 player in the league.  Superb player on both ends of the floor.  Bam was probably the 3rd best player in the series last year.  Dragic, Herro, AI2, KO, Nunn, Robinson, Leonard, etc. added a lot of strong depth surrounding their top 2 players. 

I think we all had hope that once Miami beat Milwaukee that Boston might actually break through, but I think we all underestimated just how good Miami was.  I know I did, and post-series I really didn't know why I doubted Miami as they have what you generally need to win a series i.e. the best player, another top 3/4 player, and a lot of good quality depth surrounding them.

Miami is 18-9 with Butler this year.  They are 4-10 without him.  And some of those wins with Butler they also were missing other players as guys like Herro, Nunn, and Dragic have all missed a bunch of games due to injury.  If healthy, Miami is a clear top 4 team in the East and may actually be the 2nd best team in the conference.  They are the real deal.

agreed on most, but regardless, if we had a healthy Hayward very likely we would have beaten them

I'll go to my grave thinking the Celtics choked away that series and blew a golden opportunity that was right in front of them. 

[NKY fan]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth.

It drives me nuts when I hear how we are more talented than insert “team” that is clearly better than ours and has a player that is better than anyone we have or we hope our young “talented” player may become. It’s just so much fan bias and unfortunately Ainge has the same thought process as he clearly overvalues his players.

[Moranis]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth.

Bam or Jimmy?

Butler. I thought that was obvious based on the description of the 2nd guy as Butler was not an all league defender last year.  Butler is also still the best player on either team (though Tatum has narrowed the gap this year).  Butler is a legit top 10 player in the league.  Superb player on both ends of the floor.  Bam was probably the 3rd best player in the series last year.  Dragic, Herro, AI2, KO, Nunn, Robinson, Leonard, etc. added a lot of strong depth surrounding their top 2 players. 

I think we all had hope that once Miami beat Milwaukee that Boston might actually break through, but I think we all underestimated just how good Miami was.  I know I did, and post-series I really didn't know why I doubted Miami as they have what you generally need to win a series i.e. the best player, another top 3/4 player, and a lot of good quality depth surrounding them.

Miami is 18-9 with Butler this year.  They are 4-10 without him.  And some of those wins with Butler they also were missing other players as guys like Herro, Nunn, and Dragic have all missed a bunch of games due to injury.  If healthy, Miami is a clear top 4 team in the East and may actually be the 2nd best team in the conference.  They are the real deal.

agreed on most, but regardless, if we had a healthy Hayward very likely we would have beaten them

I'll go to my grave thinking the Celtics choked away that series and blew a golden opportunity that was right in front of them.

Definitely should have won game 1, which would have potentially altered the whole series outcome.  Should have won that one even without Hayward as you should never blow a 12 point lead entering the 4th quarter (or have the last minute be 6-1 against you).

[Roy H.]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth.

It drives me nuts when I hear how we are more talented than insert “team” that is clearly better than ours and has a player that is better than anyone we have or we hope our young “talented” player may become. It’s just so much fan bias and unfortunately Ainge has the same thought process as he clearly overvalues his players.

Miami wasn’t “clearly better” than a healthy Celtics team, nor was Butler clearly better than Tatum.

Last year is a bit of a lost season.  We had four all-star caliber players, and two ended up hurt.

[Moranis]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth.

It drives me nuts when I hear how we are more talented than insert “team” that is clearly better than ours and has a player that is better than anyone we have or we hope our young “talented” player may become. It’s just so much fan bias and unfortunately Ainge has the same thought process as he clearly overvalues his players.

Miami wasn’t “clearly better” than a healthy Celtics team, nor was Butler clearly better than Tatum.

Last year is a bit of a lost season.  We had four all-star caliber players, and two ended up hurt.

Butler was pretty clearly better than Tatum last year as he is still better than him this year (though the gap has shrunk a great deal). 

[gouki88]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth.

It drives me nuts when I hear how we are more talented than insert “team” that is clearly better than ours and has a player that is better than anyone we have or we hope our young “talented” player may become. It’s just so much fan bias and unfortunately Ainge has the same thought process as he clearly overvalues his players.

Miami wasn’t “clearly better” than a healthy Celtics team, nor was Butler clearly better than Tatum.

Last year is a bit of a lost season.  We had four all-star caliber players, and two ended up hurt.

Butler was pretty clearly better than Tatum last year as he is still better than him this year (though the gap has shrunk a great deal).

Nah, he wasn't, and isn't

[Moranis]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth.

It drives me nuts when I hear how we are more talented than insert “team” that is clearly better than ours and has a player that is better than anyone we have or we hope our young “talented” player may become. It’s just so much fan bias and unfortunately Ainge has the same thought process as he clearly overvalues his players.

Miami wasn’t “clearly better” than a healthy Celtics team, nor was Butler clearly better than Tatum.

Last year is a bit of a lost season.  We had four all-star caliber players, and two ended up hurt.

Butler was pretty clearly better than Tatum last year as he is still better than him this year (though the gap has shrunk a great deal).

Nah, he wasn't, and isn't

Except basically all the metrics say that he is, as well as all the experts.  Butler is currently a better player than Tatum.  Tatum is closing the gap and will probably pass him up next year, but right now Butler is still better.  Butler is a better passer, rebounder, and a significantly better defender.  He isn't close to the shooter Tatum is, but Butler gets to the line a lot and because of that has a much higher TS%.  WS, BPM, VORP, etc. all favor Butler and most by a decent margin.  And for as good as Tatum's +-, Net RTG, etc. are, Butler is uber elite in those and by and large better.  Butler is also a much more savvy player.  He has had years to hone his skills, instincts, etc. that Tatum just hasn't done yet. 

[Somebody]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth.

It drives me nuts when I hear how we are more talented than insert “team” that is clearly better than ours and has a player that is better than anyone we have or we hope our young “talented” player may become. It’s just so much fan bias and unfortunately Ainge has the same thought process as he clearly overvalues his players.

Miami wasn’t “clearly better” than a healthy Celtics team, nor was Butler clearly better than Tatum.

Last year is a bit of a lost season.  We had four all-star caliber players, and two ended up hurt.

Butler was pretty clearly better than Tatum last year as he is still better than him this year (though the gap has shrunk a great deal).

If anything the gap has widened due to Tatum's struggles with Covid.

[IDreamCeltics]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth.

It drives me nuts when I hear how we are more talented than insert “team” that is clearly better than ours and has a player that is better than anyone we have or we hope our young “talented” player may become. It’s just so much fan bias and unfortunately Ainge has the same thought process as he clearly overvalues his players.

Miami wasn’t “clearly better” than a healthy Celtics team, nor was Butler clearly better than Tatum.

Last year is a bit of a lost season.  We had four all-star caliber players, and two ended up hurt.

But it shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone that Kemba and Hayward didn't show up for the playoffs.  That's historically what they do... They're the guys on vacation while other people are trying to fight their way into the conference finals. 

Neither has ever been a player that could be relied upon in the NBA post-season.  Hayward has been fading under the bright lights since college.

[Roy H.]

Hayward implemented Brad's system.  His loss hurts the most because it feels like a loss of system.  This became apparent last year in the Miami series, where we lost to a team less talented, but more trusting of their system. It is only more apparent now.

I don't think Miami was less talented.  They had the best player in the series.  They had another all star/all nba defender.  They had a lot of good quality depth.

It drives me nuts when I hear how we are more talented than insert “team” that is clearly better than ours and has a player that is better than anyone we have or we hope our young “talented” player may become. It’s just so much fan bias and unfortunately Ainge has the same thought process as he clearly overvalues his players.

Miami wasn’t “clearly better” than a healthy Celtics team, nor was Butler clearly better than Tatum.

Last year is a bit of a lost season.  We had four all-star caliber players, and two ended up hurt.

But it shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone that Kemba and Hayward didn't show up for the playoffs.  That's historically what they do... They're the guys on vacation while other people are trying to fight their way into the conference finals. 

Neither has ever been a player that could be relied upon in the NBA post-season.  Hayward has been fading under the bright lights since college.