Woj: Hayward to Charlotte (4 years, $120 million)

[PAOBoston]

Lot of surprising Turner hate.

Turner is an elite shot blocker. This doesn’t mean he is an elite defender but he is well above average. He can hit the three and space the floor. His per36 numbers are 16 and 8.5 with 2.6 blocks.



Turner is only 24, has already played five NBA seasons, is on a killer contract. Indiana did not use him properly. If you ever watched Indy play, they just have Turner stand there. Stand in the middle, stand outside, set a screen here and there, and they literally never give him the ball. He would kill it in Brads system.

I would have been thrilled to get Turner when he was 21 and finishing his second season but he hasn't improved and actually seems to have regressed since then.  I don't see his upside being nearly as high as I did a few years ago.   I don't see him as much of an improvement on Theis and would prefer that money to go elsewhere- preferably to Hayward if Turner is the best that we can do.

Issue is Theis is like 5 years older than Turner and he’s a FA next year who will command a (well deserved) pay raise.

Defensively speaking, Turner and Theis have very comparable stats (in albeit different defensive schemes). I don’t think Turner is a top 5 center but he’s a pretty good one and I think he would do well in the Cs system both offensively and defensively. Does that mean it is similar value for Hayward? No, Hayward plays the more important position and is more valuable. But everything pointing to Hayward wanting out and losing him for nothing would be catastrophic.

[celticinorlando]

Times a ticking Danny.

[blink]

I know we all want a big man to balance our roster better, but I kind of agree with others here that I haven’t been overly impressed with Turner the last couple of years.  He just seems passive whenever I watch him.  I don’t know how much of that is the player vs the system-team.  Could be a really low sample rate, but to the eye test Theis has been more impressive to me lately.  Theis just can’t stay out of foul trouble. 

If we do trade Gordon for Turner are we even sure that Turner starts in front of Theis?  It would be weird to have the higher paid player off the bench but Theis may be better.

If Baynes is out there and wants to come back, is he better than both Turner and Theis?

[PAOBoston]

I know we all want a big man to balance our roster better, but I kind of agree with others here that I haven’t been overly impressed with Turner the last couple of years.  He just seems passive whenever I watch him.  I don’t know how much of that is the player vs the system-team.  Could be a really low sample rate, but to the eye test Theis has been more impressive to me lately.  Theis just can’t stay out of foul trouble. 

If we do trade Gordon for Turner are we even sure that Turner starts in front of Theis?  It would be weird to have the higher paid player off the bench but Theis may be better.

Theis being a foul magnet during the playoffs was a big problem for the Cs. I think Turner would start over Theis.

Also, if Ainge is asking for Turner/Warren wouldn’t the Cs need to include something else to get close to match salaries? Could Theis be possibly the other piece? Hayward+Theis for Turner+ Warren could make sense.

[michigan adam]

If wayward wants out we need to let him go.  Get turner and the best second piece you can, even if you have too add future picks or minor payer or two.  Then I sign a portis for the PF/C role similar to theis so we occasionally can go big with 2 bigs.  Also JT insurance(I know don't jinx it).  I like baynes, and he would be fine if no turner, but he doesn't move the needle much at all, and he cost MLE rather than the "free" trade slot of GH who wants to be gone anyhow.  Either way, this GH situation needs to be resolved quickly, or at least use your MLE quickly before you lose out on all of the choices.

[PhoSita]

Times a ticking Danny.

All of free agency whizzing by while Danny and Kevin Pritchard stare each other down.

[GreenEnvy]

Times a ticking Danny.

All of free agency whizzing by while Danny and Kevin Pritchard stare each other down.

Danny has some leverage here. If he doesn’t get the deal he wants, Hayward likely has to come back. I can’t see him preferring New York or Atlanta, so if Danny walks away from Indy, Hayward will need to decide if he rather tie the money and run somewhere he really doesn’t be, chase another S&T somewhere closer to Indy that still doesn’t make sense, or just come back to Boston.

So Danny can really wait it out and see what Indiana’s best offer really is. I’m not gonna say Danny is in the driver’s seat, but Hayward needs Boston to get him to Indiana. And Boston has to be his #2 choice.

[BruceBanner18]

Ainge doesn't seem to invest that amount of salary into the C/Big position. Ainge seems more likely to have 3 bigs with a combined 18M salary than 1. If Indy didn't want to give up Dipo or Warren, then they should be able to use Turner's value to go get me the athletic, wing I'd be willing to pay 20M.

[Vermont Green]

So the "talk" seems to be that Turner + McDermott is on the table but Danny wants Oladipo or Warren over McDermott.  That all seems pretty reasonable to me.  To get Oladipo, we probably need to add something just the make the salaries work and I think overall Oladipo+Turner > Hayward.  Anybody willing to throw in Langford to make this happen?  I would.

To get Warren, we would have to add something like Smart to balance the value and make it a fair trade.  Not sure anyone would want to go there.

[michigan adam]

If they added a rw3 and langford to Gh for turner+dipo I would want a future pick back I think, maybe lottery protected for a few years. Like the memphis pick was.  You have to be sure dipo is over his injuries though...as 21M for injured player makes me think of....GH.

[wdleehi]

So the "talk" seems to be that Turner + McDermott is on the table but Danny wants Oladipo or Warren over McDermott.  That all seems pretty reasonable to me.  To get Oladipo, we probably need to add something just the make the salaries work and I think overall Oladipo+Turner > Hayward.  Anybody willing to throw in Langford to make this happen?  I would.

To get Warren, we would have to add something like Smart to balance the value and make it a fair trade.  Not sure anyone would want to go there.

I doubt Celtics will add anything else important.    Semi and Edwards as cap filler. 

No way they add Smart.   


I still think what the Celtics really want is Hayward back.

[GreenEnvy]

So the "talk" seems to be that Turner + McDermott is on the table but Danny wants Oladipo or Warren over McDermott.  That all seems pretty reasonable to me.  To get Oladipo, we probably need to add something just the make the salaries work and I think overall Oladipo+Turner > Hayward.  Anybody willing to throw in Langford to make this happen?  I would.

To get Warren, we would have to add something like Smart to balance the value and make it a fair trade.  Not sure anyone would want to go there.

I doubt Celtics will add anything else important.    Semi and Edwards as cap filler. 

No way they add Smart.   


I still think what the Celtics really want is Hayward back.

I wonder if they really want him back (at whatever price he is seeking). If that was the case, wouldn’t Danny just tell him he’s not facilitating a trade intraconference that makes another team better and us worse? It’s not like we are rebuilding. So unless Hayward’s team can convince Indy to pony up, it’s not happening.

Then you either return here or get further from Indy in Atlanta to a bad team, or slightly closer in NY where it’s always a circus and he will face media scrutiny when they underperform as usual.

[hwangjini_1]

Times a ticking Danny.

All of free agency whizzing by while Danny and Kevin Pritchard stare each other down.

are you actually suggesting that ainge cannot do two things at once? that simply waiting by the phone and sometimes talking with indiana's front office occupies all his attention?

[MattyIce]

with atlanta signing Dunn, they are out right?

[Jiri Welsch]

with atlanta signing Dunn, they are out right?

Yeah seems to be Indiana, Boston, and the Knicks in a distant distant third.