Author Topic: Woj: Hayward to Charlotte (4 years, $120 million)  (Read 245534 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #810 on: November 19, 2020, 11:46:06 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

  • NCE
  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15402
  • Tommy Points: 2785


He looks gross and fat in that NY uniform so I know he's not going there.

Gordon Hayward is way too cool to look disheveled.

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #811 on: November 19, 2020, 11:47:31 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1243
  • Tommy Points: 164
I don't get the Semi hate.

He hits threes at 38%. He hits corner threes at an elite 45%. He is a top notch defender at the 3/4 positions. He is a good 10th man in the rotation guy for under $2 million a year.

If you are expecting him to dribble/drive the lane, be an exceptional passer, or draw fouls to get to the line, yeah, you will be disappointed but that's not his game. He plays a role and he does it very well for his pay grade.

My guess is Semi will be a better all around player next year than either first rounder Ainge just took. And if Ainge doesn't think so, picking him up as salary filler for a trade is a good thing.

Just don't understand the moaning and groaning of making the absolute right move in picking up Semi's option.

The issue is that he doesn’t put the ball in the hoop.

He’s 482nd in the NBA in scoring per possession.  We literally play 4-on-5 when he’s out there.  The majority of his 3PTs are with nobody within 6 or more feet, because teams are doubling off him.  If teams have a defender closer than six feet, he shoots beliw 30%.

His defense isn’t good enough to make up for the zero contribution on offense.  He’s cheap, but he’s borderline useless.


Yeah we desperately need guys who can put the ball on the floor and attack space off the dribble.  Semi on offense is basically spot up only.  It's not a moral failing or something, I can see that he tries very hard.  He's just not good enough to be in the rotation of a really good team.

Eh?

He’s been in the rotation of a really good team since his rookie season.

3-and-D players fit any team.

Boston has had enough players who create shots off the dribble to have at least two on the floor at any time, three most of the time, and four starters who are brilliant at it. In fact it’s been an issue getting enough touches for Hayward and Brown.

This “four on five” formulation doesn’t match reality. They don’t need him to score, they need him to make open 3’s. League average is .358, Semi shot .378.

Semi would get more shots if that’s what the coaches wanted, and he would score more points if he got more shots. Both Brown and Hayward needed more shots, for God’s sake.

He virtually never turns it over; you can’t hack him because he’s a AA+ free throw shooter; he runs the floor like a deer.

He draws some of the toughest covers, and is one of the best in the league at staying in front - has the footwork and laterals of a guard; his shoulders and anticipation are similarly quick so he’s one of the quickest to get a hand up and challenge a shot.

But at this point his team D is maybe a bit ahead of his individual D. One of the top players at drawing charges, religious about getting back, fills the gap when a driver beats his man, versatile and switchable.

He’s dirt cheap. Picking up his option is a no-brainer.
'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #812 on: November 19, 2020, 11:54:04 PM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19479
  • Tommy Points: 1871


He looks gross and fat in that NY uniform so I know he's not going there.

Gordon Hayward is way too cool to look disheveled.

'way too cool to look disheveled' ...that may be the problem he deferred too much to the Jays. He is the vet he should have led that team.

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #813 on: November 20, 2020, 01:56:42 AM »

Offline ederson

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2896
  • Tommy Points: 279


He looks gross and fat in that NY uniform so I know he's not going there.

Gordon Hayward is way too cool to look disheveled.

'way too cool to look disheveled' ...that may be the problem he deferred too much to the Jays. He is the vet he should have led that team.

Maybe he should have but he was himself for only for 2 months during his 3 year stay. Not his fault obviously but he was one season injured, spent the next one getting back and then when he was realy back  first Corona and then new injury cut his last season short. 

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #814 on: November 20, 2020, 11:54:22 AM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 62690
  • Tommy Points: -25472
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Quote
Marc Stein: Indiana continues to explore sign-and-trade pathways to try acquire Gordon Hayward from Boston, league sources say The Knicks, as covered here yesterday, remain a suitor for Hayward with their salary-cap space – via Twitter TheSteinLine


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #815 on: November 20, 2020, 11:58:15 AM »

Offline jpotter33

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 51955
  • Tommy Points: 3186
Quote
Marc Stein: Indiana continues to explore sign-and-trade pathways to try acquire Gordon Hayward from Boston, league sources say The Knicks, as covered here yesterday, remain a suitor for Hayward with their salary-cap space – via Twitter TheSteinLine

Read: get me to Indy, Danny, or I’m signing with the Knicks.  ;D

Definitely encouraging, though. But it makes you wonder if it’s (a) we’re not that fond of Turner (especially with Timelord needing more time), or (b) we’re asking for quite a bit more than just Turner.
Recovering Joe Skeptic, but inching towards a relapse.

Check out my Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@Yakin_Bassin/shorts

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #816 on: November 20, 2020, 11:58:50 AM »

Offline hpantazo

  • Tommy Heinsohn
  • *************************
  • Posts: 25355
  • Tommy Points: 2756
Quote
Marc Stein: Indiana continues to explore sign-and-trade pathways to try acquire Gordon Hayward from Boston, league sources say The Knicks, as covered here yesterday, remain a suitor for Hayward with their salary-cap space – via Twitter TheSteinLine

I've seen a few reports that the Pacers want to send out Oladipo and TJ Leaf and do not want to include Turner, which is the holdup so far.

We really need a decent center and Turner should fit well, but Oladipo might be ready for a bounceback season. Still, Turner is on the books at a reasonable deal for several seasons whereas Oladipo is a 21 million dollar expiring deal. He'd be looking for a big contract this time next season.

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #817 on: November 20, 2020, 12:01:43 PM »

Offline ederson

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2896
  • Tommy Points: 279
Quote
Marc Stein: Indiana continues to explore sign-and-trade pathways to try acquire Gordon Hayward from Boston, league sources say The Knicks, as covered here yesterday, remain a suitor for Hayward with their salary-cap space – via Twitter TheSteinLine

Read: get me to Indy, Danny, or I’m signing with the Knicks.  ;D

Definitely encouraging, though. But it makes you wonder if it’s (a) we’re not that fond of Turner (especially with Timelord needing more time), or (b) we’re asking for quite a bit more than just Turner.

i am tempted to say "is that so my boy Gordie ???? go play for the knicks.... and i ll send you a new couch so you can enjoy watching the play offs on tv for the rest of your carrier"

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #818 on: November 20, 2020, 12:03:22 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 62690
  • Tommy Points: -25472
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Quote
Marc Stein: Indiana continues to explore sign-and-trade pathways to try acquire Gordon Hayward from Boston, league sources say The Knicks, as covered here yesterday, remain a suitor for Hayward with their salary-cap space – via Twitter TheSteinLine

I've seen a few reports that the Pacers want to send out Oladipo and TJ Leaf and do not want to include Turner, which is the holdup so far.

We really need a decent center and Turner should fit well, but Oladipo might be ready for a bounceback season. Still, Turner is on the books at a reasonable deal for several seasons whereas Oladipo is a 21 million dollar expiring deal. He'd be looking for a big contract this time next season.

They should send us Dipo and Turner, haha.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #819 on: November 20, 2020, 12:06:13 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Quote
Marc Stein: Indiana continues to explore sign-and-trade pathways to try acquire Gordon Hayward from Boston, league sources say The Knicks, as covered here yesterday, remain a suitor for Hayward with their salary-cap space – via Twitter TheSteinLine

I've seen a few reports that the Pacers want to send out Oladipo and TJ Leaf and do not want to include Turner, which is the holdup so far.

We really need a decent center and Turner should fit well, but Oladipo might be ready for a bounceback season. Still, Turner is on the books at a reasonable deal for several seasons whereas Oladipo is a 21 million dollar expiring deal. He'd be looking for a big contract this time next season.



Yeah it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to replace Hayward at least for one season with Oladipo.  There's some upside there with Oladipo if he can rediscover some of his old form, and he would be motivated to ball out to secure his next payday.

At the same time, from a cap management standpoint it's much better for the Celts to somehow turn Hayward into multiple smaller deals that continue into next season and perhaps the season beyond.  Anybody who expires that we can't afford to resign is an asset that we can't replace.


I can totally see how Indiana might feel that Turner is too good an asset to give up to acquire a player who is otherwise going to leave his team with nothing anyway.  At the same time, Turner and Sabonis doesn't really work and they can probably get Hayward signed to a multiyear deal.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #820 on: November 20, 2020, 12:12:07 PM »

Offline hpantazo

  • Tommy Heinsohn
  • *************************
  • Posts: 25355
  • Tommy Points: 2756
Quote
Marc Stein: Indiana continues to explore sign-and-trade pathways to try acquire Gordon Hayward from Boston, league sources say The Knicks, as covered here yesterday, remain a suitor for Hayward with their salary-cap space – via Twitter TheSteinLine

I've seen a few reports that the Pacers want to send out Oladipo and TJ Leaf and do not want to include Turner, which is the holdup so far.

We really need a decent center and Turner should fit well, but Oladipo might be ready for a bounceback season. Still, Turner is on the books at a reasonable deal for several seasons whereas Oladipo is a 21 million dollar expiring deal. He'd be looking for a big contract this time next season.



Yeah it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to replace Hayward at least for one season with Oladipo.  There's some upside there with Oladipo if he can rediscover some of his old form, and he would be motivated to ball out to secure his next payday.

At the same time, from a cap management standpoint it's much better for the Celts to somehow turn Hayward into multiple smaller deals that continue into next season and perhaps the season beyond.  Anybody who expires that we can't afford to resign is an asset that we can't replace.


I can totally see how Indiana might feel that Turner is too good an asset to give up to acquire a player who is otherwise going to leave his team with nothing anyway.  At the same time, Turner and Sabonis doesn't really work and they can probably get Hayward signed to a multiyear deal.

I agree, Oladipo would not be a bad short term replacement, but if I were Ainge I'd hold out for Turner. The Pacers really can't get Hayward if they don't agree to a trade, they are stuck with their lack of cap space and as you say, Turner and Sabonis just doesn't work. It would be good for them to move on and move ahead with their new lineup and try to get something for Oladipo at the deadline.

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #821 on: November 20, 2020, 12:13:02 PM »

Offline RJ87

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11954
  • Tommy Points: 1431
  • Let's Go Celtics!
Quote
Marc Stein: Indiana continues to explore sign-and-trade pathways to try acquire Gordon Hayward from Boston, league sources say The Knicks, as covered here yesterday, remain a suitor for Hayward with their salary-cap space – via Twitter TheSteinLine

I've seen a few reports that the Pacers want to send out Oladipo and TJ Leaf and do not want to include Turner, which is the holdup so far.

We really need a decent center and Turner should fit well, but Oladipo might be ready for a bounceback season. Still, Turner is on the books at a reasonable deal for several seasons whereas Oladipo is a 21 million dollar expiring deal. He'd be looking for a big contract this time next season.



Yeah it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to replace Hayward at least for one season with Oladipo.  There's some upside there with Oladipo if he can rediscover some of his old form, and he would be motivated to ball out to secure his next payday.

At the same time, from a cap management standpoint it's much better for the Celts to somehow turn Hayward into multiple smaller deals that continue into next season and perhaps the season beyond.  Anybody who expires that we can't afford to resign is an asset that we can't replace.


I can totally see how Indiana might feel that Turner is too good an asset to give up to acquire a player who is otherwise going to leave his team with nothing anyway.  At the same time, Turner and Sabonis doesn't really work and they can probably get Hayward signed to a multiyear deal.

That could easily backfire if he's more concerned about securing his next payday than playing within what the team needs. We've seen that with Terry Rozier. If reports are true that he was going up to opposing players in the bubble and asking he could come play for them in front of his teammates, that's a red flag. I also have doubts about him bouncing back. His play was leveling off before the injury, so it's fair to wonder if his All-Star season was an outlier.

Turner isn't my first choice, but I far prefer him in this scenario.
2021 Houston Rockets
PG: Kyrie Irving/Patty Mills/Jalen Brunson
SG: OG Anunoby/Norman Powell/Matisse Thybulle
SF: Gordon Hayward/Demar Derozan
PF: Giannis Antetokounmpo/Robert Covington
C: Kristaps Porzingis/Bobby Portis/James Wiseman

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #822 on: November 20, 2020, 12:13:45 PM »

Online Vermont Green

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13580
  • Tommy Points: 1023
My hunch is that Turner is not the issue preventing an Indy trade.  It is more about what else as needed for salary matching.  I think Indy is more willing to give up more for Hayward on a smaller multi-year contract over a higher, one year contract.  So this Turner + McDermott could have been the offer for Hayward at 1 year $34.1M.  If this is all true, it likely means that the Celtics didn't feel that was enough and wanted to roll the dice to see what they could get for Hayward on a sign and trade with a contract say 3 years at $20M.

I think getting Turner and Oladipo for Hayward on a reasonable 3 or 4 year deal, even if we have to add in a future draft pick, is a pretty fair deal for everyone.  Oladipo is coming back from a major injury and has an expiring contract (risk of walking for no return for the team) so he carries some risk along with plenty of potential reward.  Turner and McDermott for Hayward on the new deal would be much better than nothing but feels to me like a cave by the Celtics.  I feel like there are enough teams potentially interested in a sign and trade that the Celtics can work the market and come up with something.

If they really did pass up a deal in hand to roll the dice, it is a risk.  We'll see how smart of a gamble.

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #823 on: November 20, 2020, 12:14:39 PM »

Offline footey

  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16039
  • Tommy Points: 1837
I've been beating this drum to death, but would be sweet if we could figure out how to get Bogdonavich.  He'd be perfect replacement for Hayward.  Great secondary facilitator, sweet jump shot, not ball dominant, real team player.   3 way deal with Indy where Indy can send Sac a better package than that weak package offered by Bucks.  Say Hayward starting salary in new deal is $25mm, I'd sign Boggy for $20mm per; he'd be so worth it. What was he reported to make in trade to Bucks?

I guess we have to wait until 6PM before the craziness begins again!!

Re: Shams: Hayward opts out, hits free agency
« Reply #824 on: November 20, 2020, 12:15:02 PM »

Offline Uncle_Stingfinger

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 229
  • Tommy Points: 9
Apparently Oladipo has turned into a real head case.  I could be misinformed but he doesn’t sound like he would be a good fit into a already suspect locker room.