Woj: Hayward to Charlotte (4 years, $120 million)

[RJ87]

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1329599060764921862?s=21

He gone. Question is are the Cs getting anything for him.

why is that tweet so harsh. Is there some bad blood between the parties?

That's what I'm not understanding—I keep thinking I've missed something. Up until a couple days ago, it was simply a matter of whether Boston and Hayward would do a sign-and-trade or negotiate a new deal. Since then, a lot of people here have been talking like there's a huge rift between Hayward and the Cs, without a concrete explanation of what and why.

The title of that article is purposefully inflammatory to get us to click. The actual article is based on pure speculation from Mannix that Hayward only opted out because he has another deal lined up.

[KGs Knee]

Zero percent surprised Hayward wants out of Boston. Something is clearly sour down there in Boston these days. I just hope we don't eventually drive away Tatum, too.

Is it? Guys have different motivations. Kyrie wanted to play with Kevin Durant. Al wanted his last big pay day and the C's weren't willing to overpay. Gordon... I don't know what he wants (does he?). We've also extended Jaylen and Marcus in that time frame. Enes opted back in. So there's enough to show that guys like playing here fine enough. I think the crux of it is that fans still think guys should be honored to play for franchises when in reality this is business first and foremost.

Honestly, I think it's the fan base & local media that is driving these players away.  Boston fans in general seem to suck. You see it with every team.  Patriots fans are probably the worst, but Sox and C's fans aren't much better.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1329599060764921862?s=21

He gone. Question is are the Cs getting anything for him.

why is that tweet so harsh. Is there some bad blood between the parties?

That's what I'm not understanding—I keep thinking I've missed something. Up until a couple days ago, it was simply a matter of whether Boston and Hayward would do a sign-and-trade or negotiate a new deal. Since then, a lot of people here have been talking like there's a huge rift between Hayward and the Cs, without a concrete explanation of what and why.

The title of that article is purposefully inflammatory to get us to click. The actual article is based on pure speculation from Mannix that Hayward only opted out because he has another deal lined up.

Yes, that particular article is clickbait, but even before that, there have been plenty of people on this board over the last couple of days talking like there's some element of Hayward being dissatisfied (though no actual explanation of why).

[CelticsElite]

[Muzzy66]

I don't get the Semi hate.

He hits threes at 38%. He hits corner threes at an elite 45%. He is a top notch defender at the 3/4 positions. He is a good 10th man in the rotation guy for under $2 million a year.

If you are expecting him to dribble/drive the lane, be an exceptional passer, or draw fouls to get to the line, yeah, you will be disappointed but that's not his game. He plays a role and he does it very well for his pay grade.

My guess is Semi will be a better all around player next year than either first rounder Ainge just took. And if Ainge doesn't think so, picking him up as salary filler for a trade is a good thing.

Just don't understand the moaning and groaning of making the absolute right move in picking up Semi's option.

The issue is that he doesn’t put the ball in the hoop.

He’s 482nd in the NBA in scoring per possession.  We literally play 4-on-5 when he’s out there.  The majority of his 3PTs are with nobody within 6 or more feet, because teams are doubling off him.  If teams have a defender closer than six feet, he shoots beliw 30%.

His defense isn’t good enough to make up for the zero contribution on offense.  He doesn’t rebound, and he’s not a good passer. He’s cheap, but he’s borderline useless.

But he's a third stringer who just does his role, I mean I get the hate if he's off the bench but he's on the end of the bench.

I was totally fine with Semi a year or two ago - even thought he might have some genuine upside as a quality 3+D guy.  Always appreciated that every time he got on the court he seemed to bring energy and have a defensive impact.

I don't now what happened this past season, but he looked like a different player.  He was pretty much completely invisible any time he was on the court, his passable three point shooting turned to brick city, his defensive effort seemingly vanished - most the time he was out there he just looked absolutely useless. 

Unfortunate, but I really don't think the Celtics have a role for him at this rate.

[CoachBS#1]

https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status/1329599060764921862?s=21

He gone. Question is are the Cs getting anything for him.

why is that tweet so harsh. Is there some bad blood between the parties?

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2020/11/19/nba-insider-expects-gordon-hayward-to-leave-celtics-in-free-agency/

That's what I'm not understanding—I keep thinking I've missed something. Up until a couple days ago, it was simply a matter of whether Boston and Hayward would do a sign-and-trade or negotiate a new deal. Since then, a lot of people here have been talking like there's a huge rift between Hayward and the Cs, without a concrete explanation of what and why.

The title of that article is purposefully inflammatory to get us to click. The actual article is based on pure speculation from Mannix that Hayward only opted out because he has another deal lined up.

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2020/11/19/nba-insider-expects-gordon-hayward-to-leave-celtics-in-free-agency/“It doesn’t look like Gordon Hayward will ever wear a Celtics jersey again. It’s likely [Gordon Hayward] already has another deal on the table. [Hayward & his agent] aren’t going to opt out of $34 million unless they’re as sure as they can be there’s another deal out there.

“Maybe it’s a team you could sign outright with like the New York Knicks or the Atlanta Hawks. Maybe there’s been some discussions about a sign & trade situation with the Celtics.”

[Uncle_Stingfinger]

Zero percent surprised Hayward wants out of Boston. Something is clearly sour down there in Boston these days. I just hope we don't eventually drive away Tatum, too.

 would it really surprise you that tatum isnt really into locker rooms where guys are fist fighting after losses?   My favorite was when some were trying to spin that unprofessional disaster into a positive.

[SparzWizard]

Collecting big paychecks just sitting on the bench in his suit for most of his tenure as a Celtics/underperforming in his contract...good riddance.

[ozgod]

I don't get the Semi hate.

He hits threes at 38%. He hits corner threes at an elite 45%. He is a top notch defender at the 3/4 positions. He is a good 10th man in the rotation guy for under $2 million a year.

If you are expecting him to dribble/drive the lane, be an exceptional passer, or draw fouls to get to the line, yeah, you will be disappointed but that's not his game. He plays a role and he does it very well for his pay grade.

My guess is Semi will be a better all around player next year than either first rounder Ainge just took. And if Ainge doesn't think so, picking him up as salary filler for a trade is a good thing.

Just don't understand the moaning and groaning of making the absolute right move in picking up Semi's option.

I think the highlighted is where the disconnect is, Nick. For a 10th man getting paid $1m a year he's fine, he provides versatility, he can hit the occasional three, and he can defend bigger guys. Most people are evaluating him like he's a sixth man, which he definitely is not. But for $1m I think he's good value for money.

[nickagneta]

I don't get the Semi hate.

He hits threes at 38%. He hits corner threes at an elite 45%. He is a top notch defender at the 3/4 positions. He is a good 10th man in the rotation guy for under $2 million a year.

If you are expecting him to dribble/drive the lane, be an exceptional passer, or draw fouls to get to the line, yeah, you will be disappointed but that's not his game. He plays a role and he does it very well for his pay grade.

My guess is Semi will be a better all around player next year than either first rounder Ainge just took. And if Ainge doesn't think so, picking him up as salary filler for a trade is a good thing.

Just don't understand the moaning and groaning of making the absolute right move in picking up Semi's option.

The issue is that he doesn’t put the ball in the hoop.

He’s 482nd in the NBA in scoring per possession.  We literally play 4-on-5 when he’s out there.  The majority of his 3PTs are with nobody within 6 or more feet, because teams are doubling off him.  If teams have a defender closer than six feet, he shoots beliw 30%.

His defense isn’t good enough to make up for the zero contribution on offense.  He doesn’t rebound, and he’s not a good passer. He’s cheap, but he’s borderline useless.

But he's a third stringer who just does his role, I mean I get the hate if he's off the bench but he's on the end of the bench.

I was totally fine with Semi a year or two ago - even thought he might have some genuine upside as a quality 3+D guy.  Always appreciated that every time he got on the court he seemed to bring energy and have a defensive impact.

I don't now what happened this past season, but he looked like a different player.  He was pretty much completely invisible any time he was on the court, his passable three point shooting turned to brick city, his defensive effort seemingly vanished - most the time he was out there he just looked absolutely useless. 

Unfortunate, but I really don't think the Celtics have a role for him at this rate.

His passable three point shooting his first two years: 32% and 31.5%...37.1% and 34.4% from the corner.

His brick city shooting this year 37.8% from three and 46.2% from the corner.

Also FT% his first two years: 61% and 61.5%
His FT% this year: 87.5%

He was one of the league leaders in taking charges. He had the same amount of charges drawn as Marcus Smart and played like 900 minutes less than Smart. The guy was a plus defender all season.

And let's not forget, the role Semi played on offense was one of the guys that just sits in a corner while three guys play offense. We have seen Hayward and Brown wrongly labeled as not aggressive because they were also thrown into that offensive role. So part of Semi's lack of offense is definitely the role he played on offense. When he went in, he was the 5th option that just sits in the corner waiting for a kick out three. 

[jpotter33]

Zero percent surprised Hayward wants out of Boston. Something is clearly sour down there in Boston these days. I just hope we don't eventually drive away Tatum, too.

 would it really surprise you that tatum isnt really into locker rooms where guys are fist fighting after losses?   My favorite was when some were trying to spin that unprofessional disaster into a positive.

What are you referring to here? I don’t remember any reports of this? Seems like an exaggeration.

[Cman]

Zero percent surprised Hayward wants out of Boston. Something is clearly sour down there in Boston these days. I just hope we don't eventually drive away Tatum, too.

The only thing sour is Hayward, who was hoping to be "the guy" in Boston, and instead is number 4 or so. He'd fit perfectly in New York, leading a bunch of has-beens and wanna-bees. Do I hope we get more for him, via a S&T? Yes, of course. But, if not, so be it. See ya Hayward.

[gouki88]

Collecting big paychecks just sitting on the bench in his suit for most of his tenure as a Celtics/underperforming in his contract...good riddance.

I too would want to leave the Celtics

[ozgod]

I'm sure a lot of the salary cap gurus here know this already but I read this article on Reddit which explains why, due to Covid, it made financial sense for Gordon (and also Avery Bradley) to opt out of the last year of his contract:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/jxfi01/when_34_million_is_not_34_million_a_case_for/

John Karalis made the same point in an article back in October, about how his $34m option is really a fake number and why covid means he will not get that much.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/10/gordon-hayward-contract-why-his-34-million-option-is-a-fake-number-why-covid-could-make-him-opt-out.html

The thesis of it is this:

The league and the players split Basketball Related Income, or BRI. That includes television money, tickets, and anything else directly related to the game. The league puts out an estimate of what that is going to be before the season, sets a salary cap based on that number, and we all get to enjoy basketball.

Players divvy up their half of that pie. So while we hear specific numbers about how much a player makes, the amount of money that actually shows up in their bank accounts is actually a percentage of their portion of BRI, based on their contract.

“The salary cap is really just sort of a construct,” explained Ryan Bernadoni on the Locked On Celtics podcast (embedded below). Bernadoni is a salary cap expert and former Celtics blogger. “(If a) player is gonna make $5 million, they don’t actually get $5 million, necessarily. What they get is $5 million divided by all of the salaries paid in the season. It gives you a percentage, right? That’s .07% of total salaries times half of revenue. And that’s what you get.”

“They take 10% of every player’s check and they put it (aside)” Bernadoni explained. “That 10% is enough where under normal circumstances, you can adjust it up or down and give them the right amount of money for the year.”

These are not normal circumstances. Players normally get some or all of that money back, but in May, the league began withholding 25% of players' checks because of the league’s COVID-19 hiatus. The league’s revenues took a big hit, and that additional withholding is probably money the players probably won’t see.

By opting into $34.2 million, he’s ensuring that large number will give him a significant piece of whatever the players split of BRI is, but if the league keeps the entire 25-30% escrow payment, Hayward could lose out on more than $10 million of what he was expecting.

However, if he opts out and signs long-term, he can take the one year escrow hit on a lower number and hope things go back to normal. As his contract progresses, the escrow situation goes back to normal and he would end up keeping more of his money after this season.

“If you’re Gordon Hayward...I can think, well, I could bypass this year, I can opt out and re-sign for a longer term at lower dollars,” Bernadoni said. “The possible advantage is, if you’re gonna lose 30% of your salary in one year, it’s better to lose 30% of 20 million than 30% of 34 million.”

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2020/10/gordon-hayward-contract-why-his-34-million-option-is-a-fake-number-why-covid-could-make-him-opt-out.html

Here's a table showing 2 hypotheticals for Gordon:
1) he opts in to his $34m, then signs 2 1 year deals of $20m and $15m for a total of $69m total; or
2) he opts out and signs a 3 year deal for $22.5m each for a total of $67.5m



The calculations are on the reddit link for anyone who wants to review them so I won't repost them here but it illustrates how he could end up taking home more actual cash - $58.5M for hypothetical 2 vs $55.4M for hypothetical 1, because of the big Covid hit this coming season. And it shows how he might end up taking home considerably less than the $34M that he was owed this season due to the overall reduction in league revenues due to Covid.

Based on this, there's financial sense for Gordon to opt out and find a longer term deal that pays him more money due to the way that Covid has hit player incomes this year and the coming year. Whether that is a longer term deal with the Cs or with another team who can sign him outright or get him via sign and trade is yet to be seen, I'm sure we will find out in coming days. So feel free to keep the hate for Gordon coming 

[Tr1boy]

Boston keeping semi. Gross

Why? You need depth

He could have asked Danny not to keep him/explore FA

He eventually dropped down in the depth charts last season/playoffs.  Never heard him complain once.

He works hard. Hits 3s at a decent rate. Some muscle insurance to battle Giannis. Whats there to hate?