Author Topic: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft - VOTES ARE IN  (Read 32896 times)

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Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #660 on: December 03, 2020, 12:10:59 AM »

Offline RPGenerate

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Also, if anyone has any advice or criticism for my team, I'd appreciate it.
2020 Celticsstrong No-Top 10 Histrorical Draft:
PG: Tim Hardaway Sr. / Jrue Holiday / Sam Cassell
SG: Joe Dumars / Danny Ainge / Šarūnas Marčiulionis
SF: Alex English / Jamaal Wilkes / Bruce Bowen
PF: Cliff Robinson / Maurice Lucas / Robert Horry
C: Moses Malone / Mehmet Okur / Truck Robinson

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #661 on: December 03, 2020, 12:15:39 AM »

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Suns have pick 5(2) and am looking to move up into 4th round. We can talk about a bump up in lower rounds to complete the deal PM me.
I've got a 3 person list for the round.  So I might be willing to move back if the 3 are gone by my pick.  Depending on how much I move up later on of course.
That's weird. My post got deleted. Crap did I do that? Guess I'll go repost.

Also, sent you PM.

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #662 on: December 03, 2020, 12:16:22 AM »

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So....once again....

Suns have pick 5(2) and am looking to move up into 4th round. We can talk about a bump up in lower rounds to complete the deal PM me.

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #663 on: December 03, 2020, 04:44:42 AM »

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Also, if anyone has any advice or criticism for my team, I'd appreciate it.
I don't love having English on the squad I guess? I feel that he was underrated in his era as the offensive figurehead of some really good Nugget offences in the early-mid 80s, but I don't like his game in the modern game. He was quite thin and lanky for a wing so he would struggle guarding some of the more powerful and athletic wings in this game (he wasn't as feisty as guys like Miller who compensated for their slight frames with peskiness and flopping) and really doesn't have a three point shot (don't get me wrong, he'd still be very efficient today, but not having a three point shot caps his ceiling as a complementary guy to Moses, you surround premier offensive rebounders with elite three point shooters so you can squeeze out more value from those caroms). I would've picked a sweet shooting wing who could do a bit of everything instead of him - think a player like Dandridge would've been great as your SF.

I would go for a guard who you can run an offence through so Dumars can focus on spotting up and being a secondary ballhandler/extra passer and have Moses do Moses things on the court, then fill the forward spots with shooters who can defend at a high level.
Jaylen for All-NBA

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #664 on: December 03, 2020, 07:42:00 AM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

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Also, if anyone has any advice or criticism for my team, I'd appreciate it.

I almost prefer Alex as a super 6th man. I would look for a point guard who can hit the open three and is very good at entry passes so that you can play a 1-2 game with the PG and Moses.

I love Dumars as the third in that trio.

If I was you I would look for floor spacers at the forward spots and move English the bench. Maximize Moses' ability to kick butt in the post. kind of a 4 out 1 in offense.
'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #665 on: December 03, 2020, 07:45:23 AM »

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Also, if anyone has any advice or criticism for my team, I'd appreciate it.
I don't think there is anything in particular you need to do. Your team is wide open in terms of options. By that I mean, you go with defensive orientated players or offensive orientated players to round out your lineup.

You could go with a PG who drives and gets into the paint a lot or a jump-shooting PG. You could go with a big man that plays a power game in the paint and double down on Moses' interior strength or go with a perimeter PF to create more space for Moses to operate with. Or even go small with a burly SF at PF. Power ball or small ball. Halfcourt basketball or a running game.

All options are valid and allow you to build a highly functional balanced team. There is no one direction that stands out as the best option to me.

The reason for that is how well rounded your team is. Particularly Moses Malone and Joe Dumars and to a lesser extent Alex English.

I would just go BPA at each slot. There isn't a need for a particular skill-set.

---------------------

I was surprised Joe D went early 3rd. I had him somewhere in the 4th but you were right. I was wrong. Joe D was the most complete SG on the board. Best two way SG available. None of the other SGs are difference makers on both ends. I didn't recognize that at the time - I do now cause I am hoping to draft a SG next!

Great pick.

Dumars gives you so much more flexibility because of how well rounded an offensive threat he is (in terms of what type of PG you can choose - any) and beefs up your defense.

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #666 on: December 03, 2020, 07:48:46 AM »

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Why don't folks consider Alex English a three point shooter?

That guy had a lovely jump-shot. He was a great short range and midrange two point jump-shooter but he was also a very good outside shooter (long 2s, 20 footers). I see no reason to think that English would not have a 3 point shot if he played in today's game -- and a very good 3 point shot at that.

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #667 on: December 03, 2020, 07:52:28 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Also, if anyone has any advice or criticism for my team, I'd appreciate it.
I don't love having English on the squad I guess? I feel that he was underrated in his era as the offensive figurehead of some really good Nugget offences in the early-mid 80s, but I don't like his game in the modern game. He was quite thin and lanky for a wing so he would struggle guarding some of the more powerful and athletic wings in this game (he wasn't as feisty as guys like Miller who compensated for their slight frames with peskiness and flopping) and really doesn't have a three point shot (don't get me wrong, he'd still be very efficient today, but not having a three point shot caps his ceiling as a complementary guy to Moses, you surround premier offensive rebounders with elite three point shooters so you can squeeze out more value from those caroms). I would've picked a sweet shooting wing who could do a bit of everything instead of him - think a player like Dandridge would've been great as your SF.

I would go for a guard who you can run an offence through so Dumars can focus on spotting up and being a secondary ballhandler/extra passer and have Moses do Moses things on the court, then fill the forward spots with shooters who can defend at a high level.
If you go with English, you better build a team that plays at a breakneck pace. I believe the ideal fit alongside English would have been Steve Nash. The 2 of them would outrun everybody! Moses is an interesting fit as well. I'm intrigued to see how RPG fills out the rest of his roster.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 08:05:15 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #668 on: December 03, 2020, 07:55:03 AM »

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Why don't folks consider Alex English a three point shooter?

That guy had a lovely jump-shot. He was a great short range and midrange two point jump-shooter but he was also a very good outside shooter (long 2s, 20 footers). I see no reason to think that English would not have a 3 point shot if he played in today's game -- and a very good 3 point shot at that.

I agree with you. The game was different back then. Handchecking, no 3 point line. no emphasis on analytics.

English could score, plain and simple. And he could shoot. Most of these legends would be at least league average 3pt shooters in the modern era.


'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #669 on: December 03, 2020, 07:57:45 AM »

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Also, if anyone has any advice or criticism for my team, I'd appreciate it.
- I do now cause I am hoping to draft a SG next!



I know of 2 guys I would pick if I was you today.
'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #670 on: December 03, 2020, 08:00:50 AM »

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With Moses, do you want to run your offense through him?
Or just have him as part of your offense?

He is good enough to run your offense through him but doing so will limit options in terms of who you put around & potentially limit those pieces' own individual offensive value.

I wouldn't be in a rush to run your offense through Moses. Today's game isn't as friendly to post-centric offenses + Moses was not a great passer.

Bill Russell was a commentator in the 1983 Finals and he said of Moses' passing - Moses is a capable passer but he is not a creative passer explaining that Moses can pass out when doubled (rather than turning it over) but doesn't create opportunities for teammates (in terms of hitting cutters). That his passes out of double teams avoided turning it over but were slower less effective passes that allowed help defenders to recover to perimeter players without an advantage being created for the offensive team.

I felt that was a fair and accurate appraisal of Moses' passing. So those reasons combined are why I would not be in a rush to run my offense through him:

(1) limit options of players you can surround him with
(2) limit individual contributions of players you surround him with
(3) today's game not friendly to post-centric offenses
(4) Moses' limitations as a passer

Moses would be part of my offense rather than a guy I run my offense through. And that was similar to his role in Philly when they won the title. Philly had two other prolific scorers in Doc and Toney who were largely iso players in the half-court. Plus a PG who did more offensively for that team than people remember. As well as a skilled PF in Bobby Jones who did a little of everything on offense to help everyone else.

Moses still got enough touches to dominate. He doesn't need everything to be built around him.

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #671 on: December 03, 2020, 08:07:03 AM »

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I don't want that come across as being down on Moses so I'll add this -- what I was thinking but did not say yesterday.

In hindsight, I regret picking Doc #1. I should have chosen Moses #1 instead. I fell in love with an idea with Doc so I picked him. I knew the alternatives were not as good was my Plan A if that Plan A fell through but I gambled anyway. It did not work out.

I knew Moses offered me far options in terms of team building. In fact, I thought Moses had the highest floor in terms of team units to build around among the top picks (franchise type players).

In hindsight, now knowing that my Plan A wasn't possible ... I wish I had of taken Moses #1.

And I would not have built my team around him.

Building your team around your star - I think this is a really modern idea. I don't think you need to that 100% of the time. There are other ways to operate. Especially when you have All-Star caliber talent at every position.

Sometimes you go to. Some stars force you that way (ehem, Harden!). But not all do. Moses doesn't.

Moses adapted to very different teams during his years in Houston to his trade to Philadelphia. He is more adaptable as a player than he is given credit for.

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #672 on: December 03, 2020, 08:10:52 AM »

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Also, if anyone has any advice or criticism for my team, I'd appreciate it.
- I do now cause I am hoping to draft a SG next!



I know of 2 guys I would pick if I was you today.

There is 1 guy that I have an almost romantic idea of picking. Just has a beauty to it.

We'll see if he's there by the end of today's round.

I have 3 SGs and about 6 bigs (plus 1-2 options as 6th men if I don't like what is available) so things should work out okay. I'm excited cause they allow - or create -  different team dynamics. My team could go in quite a few different directions today.

Big day today for defining my team shape / style of play.

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #673 on: December 03, 2020, 08:13:19 AM »

Offline Darth_Yoda

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Also, if anyone has any advice or criticism for my team, I'd appreciate it.
- I do now cause I am hoping to draft a SG next!



I know of 2 guys I would pick if I was you today.

There is 1 guy that I have an almost romantic idea of picking. Just has a beauty to it.

We'll see if he's there by the end of today's round.

I am very curious to see.

'21 Historical Draft
PG: Kyle Lowry / Mookie Blaylock / Mark Jackson
SG: Reggie Miller / Jeff Hornacek / Nick Anderson
SF: George Gervin / George McGinnis / Kyle Korver
PF: Connie Hawkins / Serge Ibaka / Josh Smith
C: Clint Capela / Bill Laimbeer / Jusuf Nurkic

Re: Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft
« Reply #674 on: December 03, 2020, 08:16:48 AM »

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First off, tps for everyone that gave me advice/comments/criticisms about my team. I love talking about this kind of stuff, and it makes these games super fun.

Second, I'll talk about Alex English in regards to 3pt shooting and defense. For 3pt shooting, I think because of how great of a midrange shooter he was, I think it reasonable to assume that he would develop a 3pt shot. It is an assumption, and I won't argue he'll be anything more than serviceable because of that. I think it'll be good enough to where the rest of his game would be unaffected in the modern game.

For defense, I'll say that he's an average defender. Nothing special, but not an absolute liability. I think that his circumstances devalued his defense. Not only was he playing at a run and gun, breakneck pace, he was also surrounded by defensive sieves for most of his career. He'll probably be my worst defender in my lineup, so I'm not too worried.
2020 Celticsstrong No-Top 10 Histrorical Draft:
PG: Tim Hardaway Sr. / Jrue Holiday / Sam Cassell
SG: Joe Dumars / Danny Ainge / Šarūnas Marčiulionis
SF: Alex English / Jamaal Wilkes / Bruce Bowen
PF: Cliff Robinson / Maurice Lucas / Robert Horry
C: Moses Malone / Mehmet Okur / Truck Robinson