Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft - VOTES ARE IN

[Who]

I obviously love Nash and M.Gasol together since I paired them together in our last Historical Draft. 

I thought they'd work together great. It is different from the typical Nash led teams but that is fine. Nash can work in multiple environments. Maybe not quite the same individual success but reasonably enough.

One of my reasons for pairing them together was that Nash said he would shoot more now (rather than pass) in today's game than he did 10-15 years ago. That seeing Steph's success and the changing of the PG mentality from pass first to scorers being more accepted that Nash would shoot more if he were playing now than he did back then. This is stuff Nash was saying about himself. So you have Nash shooting more and being more of a scorer, pairing him with more of a facilitating big (like Marc Gasol) than a finisher big (like Amare) helps enable Nash the scorer more while maintaining team balance.

The other thing I loved about Nash and M.Gasol together is that they do an excellent job of involving everyone else in the offense which will be key in these All-Star rosters. Another reason why I believe they would work so well together. They create team spirit / togetherness / unselfishness. Like a Magic Johnson or a Larry Bird. Nash and M.Gasol create that team culture.

[Who]

The third round is going to make or break my team

Do you have 3 picks today? A full starting lineup?

[Darth_Yoda]

Here are my power rankings thus far. I'm not including the Bucks and the Rockets. The Kawhi-Butler deal was a risky move for both teams. It's way too early to tell how things will pan out.

Tier 1

• Phoenix: Giannis, Reggie Miller
  I believe Giannis is the best player in the draft. Absolutely love the fit of Reggie next to him.

Tier 2 (in random order)

• Memphis: Kobe, Artis Gilmore
  Kobe won all 5 of his championships while playing alongside a dominant big man. Gilmore is one of the best big men in this draft.
• Washington: Stockton, Klay
  Super solid backcourt duo. Easy to build around them as well. Both of them are 2-way players and great shooters. If I were the Wizards, I would be looking for a go-to scorer. Stockton had pass-first mentality. Klay is an off-ball specialist.
• Toronto: Karl Malone, Tiny
  Plenty of star power for the Raps. Malone is arguably the 2nd best PF in the draft (if not the best). I guess the consensus is that Tiny ranks 3rd among PGs.
• Sacramento: Moses, Alex English
  Very interesting fit, imo. Both Moses and English were at their best when playing at a fast pace. Moses was undersized at the 5, hence he was quicker/more explosive than his opponents. English spearheaded the fastest-paced team to ever make the playoffs. The 1983-84 Nuggets had a true pace of 9.0, which means they used 9% more possessions than the league average! If I were the Kings, I'd be looking for a speedy PG who can push the tempo for English+Moses. Someone who can explode on the open court!
  I also think the Kings need a couple of shooters. Moses and English were amazing scorers, but they weren't shooters. Lots of good shooters left in the draft though.
• Chicago: Dr J, Kemp
  Two of the best in-game dunkers of all time. Chicago would be a fun team to watch, no doubt about that! Again, I'd be looking for a speedy PG who can push the tempo for Erving+Kemp. I'd also be looking for a mobile big man and some shooters.

Tier 3 (in random order)

• San Antonio: Drexler-Gervin
  Two amazing scorers. Both of them were elite slashers. Unfortunately, neither of them was a good shooter. Imo, the Spurs need to surround their slashers with shooters.
• Indy: Nash, Marc Gasol
  Don't love the fit of Marc Gasol and Nash tbh. Imo, Nash was at his best when running an uptempo offense. Gasol is at his best when playing in the half court. Personally speaking, I would have opted for a mobile big man. But that's just me.

i appreciate your feedback but Gervin was an excellent shooter who would excell in todays game.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/533759-nothing-but-netranking-the-greatest-shooters-in-the-nba-history


One of the best offensive players to step on the NBA hardwood, George Gervin was additionally one of the finest shooters to ever grace the game of basketball.

He could sink a variety of difficulty shots from anywhere. He was heavily defended, as there was usually a double team, even sometimes a triple team, waiting to stop him. That was impossible, as he had his own style, which was to put consistent effort in.

He was so effective with his shot, recognized by Dr. J, who gave him the nickname "Iceman." Yes, he was nailing them, and he put defenders in a position to hope that he'd get tired and miss. That never happened. During one season in which he led in scoring at 29.6 points per game, he did so on 54 percent shooting from the field.


https://www.nba.com/history/legends/profiles/george-gervin

To fully appreciate the greatness of “the Iceman” one had to see him rise up for a silky-smooth jump shot from 25 feet, twirl a heavenly finger roll while soaring through the lane, execute a graceful reverse layup with either hand or explode for a sneaky power dunk between a pair of 7-foot defenders.

Drexler shot 33Q% over his final 8 seasons from 3 point range.  a couple of seasons he shot 36% from 3 on 5.4. last season trae young shot 36% from 3.

I wouldn't say they aren't good shooters. they could shoot well.

For the record, I've only watched him play in youtube videos. I've read some stuff about him online. I also watched a long interview about a month ago where he was talking about his game (among other things). From what I know, he had a silky smooth finger roll. In fact, he was the one who made the finger roll famous. Sure, he was very efficient, but he hardly even took any 3s. His career average was 27.1% from 3 on 0.7 attempts per game. I guess he must have been a good mid range shooter. I mean, his FT% certainly suggests that he had potential as a shooter.

Would he be shooting more 3s in today's game? For sure.
Would he be an accurate 3pt shooter? Hard to say. No one can really know.

According to the advanced stats, he was also a below average defender+passer.

Career averages
Defensive Box Plus/Minus: -0.8
AST%: 12.2
TOV%: 11.7

Don't get me wrong, both Gervin and Drexler were amazing scorers. Unlike Gervin, Drexler was also a very good defender. Imo, what holds you back the most is the lack of an elite-level talent. As good as Gervin was, he never led his team to the NBA Finals. Drexler wasn't good enough to be the go-to guy on a championship team either. He won a championship in Houston, but he was playing second fiddle to Dream. At the end of the day, winning matters.

I agree totally with that. Not sure I can get any elite level talent, they all went before me. I hope to follow the Detroit mold, in the sense that with a well built team it will not matter about not having an elite level talent.

[Somebody]

The third round is going to make or break my team

Do you have 3 picks today? A full starting lineup?

I have 2 so my starting lineup will be pretty much set after this round.

[Moranis]

Here are my power rankings thus far. I'm not including the Bucks and the Rockets. The Kawhi-Butler deal was a risky move for both teams. It's way too early to tell how things will pan out.

Tier 1

• Phoenix: Giannis, Reggie Miller
  I believe Giannis is the best player in the draft. Absolutely love the fit of Reggie next to him.

Tier 2 (in random order)

• Memphis: Kobe, Artis Gilmore
  Kobe won all 5 of his championships while playing alongside a dominant big man. Gilmore is one of the best big men in this draft.
• Washington: Stockton, Klay
  Super solid backcourt duo. Easy to build around them as well. Both of them are 2-way players and great shooters. If I were the Wizards, I would be looking for a go-to scorer. Stockton had pass-first mentality. Klay is an off-ball specialist.
• Toronto: Karl Malone, Tiny
  Plenty of star power for the Raps. Malone is arguably the 2nd best PF in the draft (if not the best). I guess the consensus is that Tiny ranks 3rd among PGs.
• Sacramento: Moses, Alex English
  Very interesting fit, imo. Both Moses and English were at their best when playing at a fast pace. Moses was undersized at the 5, hence he was quicker/more explosive than his opponents. English spearheaded the fastest-paced team to ever make the playoffs. The 1983-84 Nuggets had a true pace of 9.0, which means they used 9% more possessions than the league average! If I were the Kings, I'd be looking for a speedy PG who can push the tempo for English+Moses. Someone who can explode on the open court!
  I also think the Kings need a couple of shooters. Moses and English were amazing scorers, but they weren't shooters. Lots of good shooters left in the draft though.
• Chicago: Dr J, Kemp
  Two of the best in-game dunkers of all time. Chicago would be a fun team to watch, no doubt about that! Again, I'd be looking for a speedy PG who can push the tempo for Erving+Kemp. I'd also be looking for a mobile big man and some shooters.

Tier 3 (in random order)

• San Antonio: Drexler-Gervin
  Two amazing scorers. Both of them were elite slashers. Unfortunately, neither of them was a good shooter. Imo, the Spurs need to surround their slashers with shooters.
• Indy: Nash, Marc Gasol
  Don't love the fit of Marc Gasol and Nash tbh. Imo, Nash was at his best when running an uptempo offense. Gasol is at his best when playing in the half court. Personally speaking, I would have opted for a mobile big man. But that's just me.

i appreciate your feedback but Gervin was an excellent shooter who would excell in todays game.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/533759-nothing-but-netranking-the-greatest-shooters-in-the-nba-history


One of the best offensive players to step on the NBA hardwood, George Gervin was additionally one of the finest shooters to ever grace the game of basketball.

He could sink a variety of difficulty shots from anywhere. He was heavily defended, as there was usually a double team, even sometimes a triple team, waiting to stop him. That was impossible, as he had his own style, which was to put consistent effort in.

He was so effective with his shot, recognized by Dr. J, who gave him the nickname "Iceman." Yes, he was nailing them, and he put defenders in a position to hope that he'd get tired and miss. That never happened. During one season in which he led in scoring at 29.6 points per game, he did so on 54 percent shooting from the field.


https://www.nba.com/history/legends/profiles/george-gervin

To fully appreciate the greatness of “the Iceman” one had to see him rise up for a silky-smooth jump shot from 25 feet, twirl a heavenly finger roll while soaring through the lane, execute a graceful reverse layup with either hand or explode for a sneaky power dunk between a pair of 7-foot defenders.

Drexler shot 33Q% over his final 8 seasons from 3 point range.  a couple of seasons he shot 36% from 3 on 5.4. last season trae young shot 36% from 3.

I wouldn't say they aren't good shooters. they could shoot well.

For the record, I've only watched him play in youtube videos. I've read some stuff about him online. I also watched a long interview about a month ago where he was talking about his game (among other things). From what I know, he had a silky smooth finger roll. In fact, he was the one who made the finger roll famous. Sure, he was very efficient, but he hardly even took any 3s. His career average was 27.1% from 3 on 0.7 attempts per game. I guess he must have been a good mid range shooter. I mean, his FT% certainly suggests that he had potential as a shooter.

Would he be shooting more 3s in today's game? For sure.
Would he be an accurate 3pt shooter? Hard to say. No one can really know.

According to the advanced stats, he was also a below average defender+passer.

Career averages
Defensive Box Plus/Minus: -0.8
AST%: 12.2
TOV%: 11.7

Don't get me wrong, both Gervin and Drexler were amazing scorers. Unlike Gervin, Drexler was also a very good defender. Imo, what holds you back the most is the lack of an elite-level talent. As good as Gervin was, he never led his team to the NBA Finals. Drexler wasn't good enough to be the go-to guy on a championship team either. He won a championship in Houston, but he was playing second fiddle to Dream. At the end of the day, winning matters.

Drexler was the best player and leading scorer on 2 separate teams that made the NBA Finals.  Losing both of those Finals to the defending champion.  To act like he couldn't be the go-to guy on a championship team seems strange.  I mean I have Malone.  He never won a title and like Drexler was the best player on 2 teams that made the Finals and also like Drexler lost to the defending champion in the Finals.  I don't think anyone would claim that the Mailman wasn't talented enough to be the go-to guy on a championship team.  I mean he is the 2nd most prolific scorer in league history (at least for another season before Lebron catches him).  Malone was better than Drexler, I just find the bolded logic to be strange.

[Who]

I have the first pick today but I have to go out for a bit. Not sure I'll be back in time. It'll be a close call. So I'll just make my pick now. Avoid worrying. I presume that is fine with everyone.   

Chicago Bulls select Mark Price with pick 3.1

Price would be awesome in today's league with the no hand checking and the emphasis on 3 point shooting. I believe a similar offensive impact to Nash.

[gouki88]

Here are my power rankings thus far. I'm not including the Bucks and the Rockets. The Kawhi-Butler deal was a risky move for both teams. It's way too early to tell how things will pan out.

Tier 1

• Phoenix: Giannis, Reggie Miller
  I believe Giannis is the best player in the draft. Absolutely love the fit of Reggie next to him.

Tier 2 (in random order)

• Memphis: Kobe, Artis Gilmore
  Kobe won all 5 of his championships while playing alongside a dominant big man. Gilmore is one of the best big men in this draft.
• Washington: Stockton, Klay
  Super solid backcourt duo. Easy to build around them as well. Both of them are 2-way players and great shooters. If I were the Wizards, I would be looking for a go-to scorer. Stockton had pass-first mentality. Klay is an off-ball specialist.
• Toronto: Karl Malone, Tiny
  Plenty of star power for the Raps. Malone is arguably the 2nd best PF in the draft (if not the best). I guess the consensus is that Tiny ranks 3rd among PGs.
• Sacramento: Moses, Alex English
  Very interesting fit, imo. Both Moses and English were at their best when playing at a fast pace. Moses was undersized at the 5, hence he was quicker/more explosive than his opponents. English spearheaded the fastest-paced team to ever make the playoffs. The 1983-84 Nuggets had a true pace of 9.0, which means they used 9% more possessions than the league average! If I were the Kings, I'd be looking for a speedy PG who can push the tempo for English+Moses. Someone who can explode on the open court!
  I also think the Kings need a couple of shooters. Moses and English were amazing scorers, but they weren't shooters. Lots of good shooters left in the draft though.
• Chicago: Dr J, Kemp
  Two of the best in-game dunkers of all time. Chicago would be a fun team to watch, no doubt about that! Again, I'd be looking for a speedy PG who can push the tempo for Erving+Kemp. I'd also be looking for a mobile big man and some shooters.

Tier 3 (in random order)

• San Antonio: Drexler-Gervin
  Two amazing scorers. Both of them were elite slashers. Unfortunately, neither of them was a good shooter. Imo, the Spurs need to surround their slashers with shooters.
• Indy: Nash, Marc Gasol
  Don't love the fit of Marc Gasol and Nash tbh. Imo, Nash was at his best when running an uptempo offense. Gasol is at his best when playing in the half court. Personally speaking, I would have opted for a mobile big man. But that's just me.

i appreciate your feedback but Gervin was an excellent shooter who would excell in todays game.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/533759-nothing-but-netranking-the-greatest-shooters-in-the-nba-history


One of the best offensive players to step on the NBA hardwood, George Gervin was additionally one of the finest shooters to ever grace the game of basketball.

He could sink a variety of difficulty shots from anywhere. He was heavily defended, as there was usually a double team, even sometimes a triple team, waiting to stop him. That was impossible, as he had his own style, which was to put consistent effort in.

He was so effective with his shot, recognized by Dr. J, who gave him the nickname "Iceman." Yes, he was nailing them, and he put defenders in a position to hope that he'd get tired and miss. That never happened. During one season in which he led in scoring at 29.6 points per game, he did so on 54 percent shooting from the field.


https://www.nba.com/history/legends/profiles/george-gervin

To fully appreciate the greatness of “the Iceman” one had to see him rise up for a silky-smooth jump shot from 25 feet, twirl a heavenly finger roll while soaring through the lane, execute a graceful reverse layup with either hand or explode for a sneaky power dunk between a pair of 7-foot defenders.

Drexler shot 33Q% over his final 8 seasons from 3 point range.  a couple of seasons he shot 36% from 3 on 5.4. last season trae young shot 36% from 3.

I wouldn't say they aren't good shooters. they could shoot well.

For the record, I've only watched him play in youtube videos. I've read some stuff about him online. I also watched a long interview about a month ago where he was talking about his game (among other things). From what I know, he had a silky smooth finger roll. In fact, he was the one who made the finger roll famous. Sure, he was very efficient, but he hardly even took any 3s. His career average was 27.1% from 3 on 0.7 attempts per game. I guess he must have been a good mid range shooter. I mean, his FT% certainly suggests that he had potential as a shooter.

Would he be shooting more 3s in today's game? For sure.
Would he be an accurate 3pt shooter? Hard to say. No one can really know.

According to the advanced stats, he was also a below average defender+passer.

Career averages
Defensive Box Plus/Minus: -0.8
AST%: 12.2
TOV%: 11.7

Don't get me wrong, both Gervin and Drexler were amazing scorers. Unlike Gervin, Drexler was also a very good defender. Imo, what holds you back the most is the lack of an elite-level talent. As good as Gervin was, he never led his team to the NBA Finals. Drexler wasn't good enough to be the go-to guy on a championship team either. He won a championship in Houston, but he was playing second fiddle to Dream. At the end of the day, winning matters.

I agree totally with that. Not sure I can get any elite level talent, they all went before me. I hope to follow the Detroit mold, in the sense that with a well built team it will not matter about not having an elite level talent.

To be honest I think you and others would be wrong to write off Clyde as not being an elite talent. Good for 23-27PPG, 5-8RPG and 5-8APG while playing good defence and leading his team on deep playoff runs. He, in my opinion, is definitely a genuinely elite first option.

[gouki88]

I have the first pick today but I have to go out for a bit. Not sure I'll be back in time. It'll be a close call. So I'll just make my pick now. Avoid worrying. I presume that is fine with everyone.   

Chicago Bulls select Mark Price with pick 3.1

Price would be awesome in today's league with the no hand checking and the emphasis on 3 point shooting. I believe a similar offensive impact to Nash.

Definitely no issue with that on my end. Better that than potentially miss your pick.

Price is a great pickup. Ahead of his time and will provide the spacing and passing I think your team needed in a PG. Very solid choice

[nickagneta]

Well, there goes my guy

[Somebody]

I have the first pick today but I have to go out for a bit. Not sure I'll be back in time. It'll be a close call. So I'll just make my pick now. Avoid worrying. I presume that is fine with everyone.   

Chicago Bulls select Mark Price with pick 3.1

Price would be awesome in today's league with the no hand checking and the emphasis on 3 point shooting. I believe a similar offensive impact to Nash.

Great pick! Legitimate offensive dynamo in the late 80s/early 90s.

[GreenFaith1819]

I obviously love Nash and M.Gasol together since I paired them together in our last Historical Draft. 

I thought they'd work together great. It is different from the typical Nash led teams but that is fine. Nash can work in multiple environments. Maybe not quite the same individual success but reasonably enough.

One of my reasons for pairing them together was that Nash said he would shoot more now (rather than pass) in today's game than he did 10-15 years ago. That seeing Steph's success and the changing of the PG mentality from pass first to scorers being more accepted that Nash would shoot more if he were playing now than he did back then. This is stuff Nash was saying about himself. So you have Nash shooting more and being more of a scorer, pairing him with more of a facilitating big (like Marc Gasol) than a finisher big (like Amare) helps enable Nash the scorer more while maintaining team balance.

The other thing I loved about Nash and M.Gasol together is that they do an excellent job of involving everyone else in the offense which will be key in these All-Star rosters. Another reason why I believe they would work so well together. They create team spirit / togetherness / unselfishness. Like a Magic Johnson or a Larry Bird. Nash and M.Gasol create that team culture.

To be honest, Who - I loved your Nash-Gasol team from our April draft and intended on building a similar team after that one.

I agree with what you said, here.

While Nash wouldn't have the same "Individual" gaudy assists stats as he had in his real life PHX days pairing him with Marc (and the remainder of my team once I'm done) would net him GREATER "TEAM" success.

Steve Nash has ALWAYS been a consummate professional. If PHX would've pulled the trigger on a big trade and perhaps moved Marion for a better Center and changed the team dynamic slightly I am certain he would've adjusted.......and had a better shot at making it out of the West.

His PHX teams fell with little fanfare in the playoffs against the Spurs THREE times and DAL once. It is a bit disappointing that PHX management didn't pull the trigger on a trade back then but I guess offense sold tickets.

[Darth_Yoda]

I have no idea what I am going to do.

If anyone wants to hear my thoughts and offer a critique it would be appreciated.

[Moranis]

Mark Price was a pretty underrated player in his career.  A consistent 90/50/40 shooter, excellent passer, solid defensively.  Just a good solid all around player with elite level shooting.

[Darth_Yoda]

Mark Price was a pretty underrated player in his career.  A consistent 90/50/40 shooter, excellent passer, solid defensively.  Just a good solid all around player with elite level shooting.

he did stuggle a bit against tough defense, but with the rest of that team defense wont focus on him.

[nickagneta]

With the 2nd pick in Round 3 of the 2021 Historical Draft the Phoenix Suns select:



DANNY GRANGER