Celticsstrong 2021 Historical Draft - VOTES ARE IN

[RPGenerate]

I haven’t followed closely, but if Deandre Jordan is a starter in this Historic Draft, it’s gotta be the weakest one on record, right?

I think it more so shows that the center batch outside of the top 10 is pretty weak.

Apparently so.  But my guess is that the full talent of any individual decade (starting in the 70s, perhaps sixties) will easily trump the non-top 10 talent of all decades.

True, there's one guy from that era I'm kinda shocked hasn't been picked yet. I would have if I wasn't already set with Moses.

[Moranis]

I haven’t followed closely, but if Deandre Jordan is a starter in this Historic Draft, it’s gotta be the weakest one on record, right?

I think it more so shows that the center batch outside of the top 10 is pretty weak.

Apparently so.  But my guess is that the full talent of any individual decade (starting in the 70s, perhaps sixties) will easily trump the non-top 10 talent of all decades.

There are better players than Jordan undrafted I think, but Nick went for fit.  That is what we have been seeing a lot more in this draft, guys going for fit as opposed to talent much earlier on.  Much more so about team building, which is why I was curious to see how this would shake out. 

[GreenFaith1819]

I haven’t followed closely, but if Deandre Jordan is a starter in this Historic Draft, it’s gotta be the weakest one on record, right?

I think it more so shows that the center batch outside of the top 10 is pretty weak.

Apparently so.  But my guess is that the full talent of any individual decade (starting in the 70s, perhaps sixties) will easily trump the non-top 10 talent of all decades.

There are better players than Jordan undrafted I think, but Nick went for fit.  That is what we have been seeing a lot more in this draft, guys going for fit as opposed to talent much earlier on.  Much more so about team building, which is why I was curious to see how this would shake out.

I think after the Moses, GF, Dr. J's, Kobe's and a few others this draft "Quickly" went to fit, IMO....and even THEN you have to find the right talent to place around those Alphas.....

This is perhaps the most challenging and thinking man's (or Woman's - if any players are female) draft we've EVER had.

Also take into account the fact that it's ALSO become a Chess Game - in that we're also drafting to match up against our fellow drafters, too.

What you may think fits for your team may not be what someone else thinks fits for theirs.

[Somebody]

Houston Rockets roster right now:
PG: Terry Porter
SG: Jimmy Butler
SF: Bob Dandridge
PF: Draymond Green
C: Rudy Gobert

What're your thoughts on this team?

I like it. I think offensively they will have a few limitation. You could really use a go to scorer in that lineup, but defensively you have the best team.

Don't know enough about Dandridge and Porter tbh, but Butler can definitely create his own shot.

@Somebody
Could you write a few words about Dandridge and Porter? Which modern-day players would be a good comp for them?

Dandridge was one of the best two-way wings prior to the three point era. He wasn't physically imposing, but he didn't shy away from guarding more athletic wings like the Doctor (he actually went head to head against Erving in the 1978 playoffs in his title run with the Bullets) and made strong defensive plays. Offensively he was like Paul Pierce with worse free throw rates - he was very deliberate in getting to his spots, had a very good mid-post game and was a very good midrange shooter with the ability to spot up off the ball. He had pretty good vision as well, often recognising double teams/collapsing defences to set up his teammates. Very clutch player - his '78 and '79 playoff runs had him showing up whenever the Bullets needed someone to create reliably (that guy was not Elvin Hayes no matter how gaudy his PPG looked, his shot selection and vision was absolutely awful) or make key defensive plays. Was an All-League player and defender in '79 when he finally got to be a key player on a title contender (1st team All-Defence, 2nd team All-League) if you care about accolades.

Here's a full game of him going up against the Doctor in '78:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-ybHN98wM

Porter was a well-rounded guard who co-captained the Blazers offence alongside Drexler in the late 80s/early 90s (his role in those attacks were understated because of Drexler's gaudy slash lines in some years, but he was really important as a 2A or even 1B at times to give the Blazers another creator who could run an offence). He was an elite shooter for his time - he shot 40.8% from three on 4 attempts per game from '91 to '93. He was a very good passer who converted a good amount of passing opportunities. He moved well off the ball as well, doing a fair bit of cutting or relocation to the the perimeter for open layups or jumpshots whenever he didn't have the ball, which fits well next to on-ball talent. Good defender, he was quite physical on that end of the floor and defended all sorts of guards to let Drexler get the easier defensive assignment during his prime (unless there was a really good wing at SG like Jordan, then Drexler would defend the better player because Porter would be giving up too much size). He also leveraged his size really well - he bullied guards who were smaller than him with his aforementioned physicality and ability to shoot over them as he was fairly good at creating separation.

To me his best quality was that he would often ramp up in the second season when his teams needed more juice offensively, from '90 to '92 when the Blazers were making deep playoff runs he would increase his aggressiveness and his free throw rate jumped up from .388 in the RS to .507 in the playoffs, buoying his scoring rate and efficiency. Part of that was how well he fared against smaller guards, but he was genuinely spectacular when the playoffs rolled around in those years, often coming close to or even matching Drexler's box output. A modern comparison would be Chauncey Billups with both of them being two-way guards who oscillated on and off the ball well. He didn't get a ton of accolades (byproduct of having to fight for All-League spots with the likes of Price, Stockton, KJ, Magic, Jordan and many more talented guards who were either in bigger markets, had flashier games or had bigger roles on their squads), but he was as good as anyone not in that MVP bracket during his best years.

Here is a game of him abusing Stockton in the '92 WCF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhuhqJivXLQ

To summarise, they were used as 1B or 2A options who could defend well during their prime (Dandridge did play as a 1A in '79 but it was a strange era with a ton of parity), but they could ramp up if needed and fit well next to others.

[Jvalin]

Houston Rockets roster right now:
PG: Terry Porter
SG: Jimmy Butler
SF: Bob Dandridge
PF: Draymond Green
C: Rudy Gobert

What're your thoughts on this team?

I like it. I think offensively they will have a few limitation. You could really use a go to scorer in that lineup, but defensively you have the best team.

Don't know enough about Dandridge and Porter tbh, but Butler can definitely create his own shot.

@Somebody
Could you write a few words about Dandridge and Porter? Which modern-day players would be a good comp for them?

Dandridge was one of the best two-way wings prior to the three point era. He wasn't physically imposing, but he didn't shy away from guarding more athletic wings like the Doctor (he actually went head to head against Erving in the 1978 playoffs in his title run with the Bullets) and made strong defensive plays. Offensively he was like Paul Pierce with worse free throw rates - he was very deliberate in getting to his spots, had a very good mid-post game and was a very good midrange shooter with the ability to spot up off the ball. He had pretty good vision as well, often recognising double teams/collapsing defences to set up his teammates. Very clutch player - his '78 and '79 playoff runs had him showing up whenever the Bullets needed someone to create reliably (that guy was not Elvin Hayes no matter how gaudy his PPG looked, his shot selection and vision was absolutely awful) or make key defensive plays. Was an All-League player and defender in '79 when he finally got to be a key player on a title contender (1st team All-Defence, 2nd team All-League) if you care about accolades.

Here's a full game of him going up against the Doctor in '78:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-ybHN98wM

Porter was a well-rounded guard who co-captained the Blazers offence alongside Drexler in the late 80s/early 90s (his role in those attacks were understated because of Drexler's gaudy slash lines in some years, but he was really important as a 2A or even 1B at times to give the Blazers another creator who could run an offence). He was an elite shooter for his time - he shot 40.8% from three on 4 attempts per game from '91 to '93. He was a very good passer who converted a good amount of passing opportunities. He moved well off the ball as well, doing a fair bit of cutting or relocation to the the perimeter for open layups or jumpshots whenever he didn't have the ball, which fits well next to on-ball talent. Good defender, he was quite physical on that end of the floor and defended all sorts of guards to let Drexler get the easier defensive assignment during his prime (unless there was a really good wing at SG like Jordan, then Drexler would defend the better player because Porter would be giving up too much size). He also leveraged his size really well - he bullied guards who were smaller than him with his aforementioned physicality and ability to shoot over them as he was fairly good at creating separation.

To me his best quality was that he would often ramp up in the second season when his teams needed more juice offensively, from '90 to '92 when the Blazers were making deep playoff runs he would increase his aggressiveness and his free throw rate jumped up from .388 in the RS to .507 in the playoffs, buoying his scoring rate and efficiency. Part of that was how well he fared against smaller guards, but he was genuinely spectacular when the playoffs rolled around in those years, often coming close to or even matching Drexler's box output. A modern comparison would be Chauncey Billups with both of them being two-way guards who oscillated on and off the ball well. He didn't get a ton of accolades (byproduct of having to fight for All-League spots with the likes of Price, Stockton, KJ, Magic, Jordan and many more talented guards who were either in bigger markets, had flashier games or had bigger roles on their squads), but he was as good as anyone not in that MVP bracket during his best years.

Here is a game of him abusing Stockton in the '92 WCF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhuhqJivXLQ

To summarise, they were used as 1B or 2A options who could defend well during their prime (Dandridge did play as a 1A in '79 but it was a strange era with a ton of parity), but they could ramp up if needed and fit well next to others.

Great stuff! I now have a better understanding of how your team would work. TP!

[Somebody]

Houston Rockets roster right now:
PG: Terry Porter
SG: Jimmy Butler
SF: Bob Dandridge
PF: Draymond Green
C: Rudy Gobert

What're your thoughts on this team?

I like it. I think offensively they will have a few limitation. You could really use a go to scorer in that lineup, but defensively you have the best team.

Don't know enough about Dandridge and Porter tbh, but Butler can definitely create his own shot.

@Somebody
Could you write a few words about Dandridge and Porter? Which modern-day players would be a good comp for them?

Dandridge was one of the best two-way wings prior to the three point era. He wasn't physically imposing, but he didn't shy away from guarding more athletic wings like the Doctor (he actually went head to head against Erving in the 1978 playoffs in his title run with the Bullets) and made strong defensive plays. Offensively he was like Paul Pierce with worse free throw rates - he was very deliberate in getting to his spots, had a very good mid-post game and was a very good midrange shooter with the ability to spot up off the ball. He had pretty good vision as well, often recognising double teams/collapsing defences to set up his teammates. Very clutch player - his '78 and '79 playoff runs had him showing up whenever the Bullets needed someone to create reliably (that guy was not Elvin Hayes no matter how gaudy his PPG looked, his shot selection and vision was absolutely awful) or make key defensive plays. Was an All-League player and defender in '79 when he finally got to be a key player on a title contender (1st team All-Defence, 2nd team All-League) if you care about accolades.

Here's a full game of him going up against the Doctor in '78:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF-ybHN98wM

Porter was a well-rounded guard who co-captained the Blazers offence alongside Drexler in the late 80s/early 90s (his role in those attacks were understated because of Drexler's gaudy slash lines in some years, but he was really important as a 2A or even 1B at times to give the Blazers another creator who could run an offence). He was an elite shooter for his time - he shot 40.8% from three on 4 attempts per game from '91 to '93. He was a very good passer who converted a good amount of passing opportunities. He moved well off the ball as well, doing a fair bit of cutting or relocation to the the perimeter for open layups or jumpshots whenever he didn't have the ball, which fits well next to on-ball talent. Good defender, he was quite physical on that end of the floor and defended all sorts of guards to let Drexler get the easier defensive assignment during his prime (unless there was a really good wing at SG like Jordan, then Drexler would defend the better player because Porter would be giving up too much size). He also leveraged his size really well - he bullied guards who were smaller than him with his aforementioned physicality and ability to shoot over them as he was fairly good at creating separation.

To me his best quality was that he would often ramp up in the second season when his teams needed more juice offensively, from '90 to '92 when the Blazers were making deep playoff runs he would increase his aggressiveness and his free throw rate jumped up from .388 in the RS to .507 in the playoffs, buoying his scoring rate and efficiency. Part of that was how well he fared against smaller guards, but he was genuinely spectacular when the playoffs rolled around in those years, often coming close to or even matching Drexler's box output. A modern comparison would be Chauncey Billups with both of them being two-way guards who oscillated on and off the ball well. He didn't get a ton of accolades (byproduct of having to fight for All-League spots with the likes of Price, Stockton, KJ, Magic, Jordan and many more talented guards who were either in bigger markets, had flashier games or had bigger roles on their squads), but he was as good as anyone not in that MVP bracket during his best years.

Here is a game of him abusing Stockton in the '92 WCF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhuhqJivXLQ

To summarise, they were used as 1B or 2A options who could defend well during their prime (Dandridge did play as a 1A in '79 but it was a strange era with a ton of parity), but they could ramp up if needed and fit well next to others.

Great stuff! I now have a better understanding of how your team would work. TP!

Appreciate you for going over it! Btw your team is unfair , DJ, Kawhi and Jokic is going to steamroll the league.

[Darth_Yoda]

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to build our league in 2k20?

I know you can do Custom leagues but can you make a 10 team league? Is there a setting that lets you do an alltime draft? Be fun to actually simulate a season with our teams.

[gouki88]

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to build our league in 2k20?

I know you can do Custom leagues but can you make a 10 team league? Is there a setting that lets you do an alltime draft? Be fun to actually simulate a season with our teams.

I think you could customise a roster to have 10 teams with the appropriate players, and have the other 20 teams 40 rated created players. Then do a league with that? Because I don’t think you can do a league that small.

Of course, that is assuming a consensus rating of players

[Darth_Yoda]

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to build our league in 2k20?

I know you can do Custom leagues but can you make a 10 team league? Is there a setting that lets you do an alltime draft? Be fun to actually simulate a season with our teams.

I think you could customise a roster to have 10 teams with the appropriate players, and have the other 20 teams 40 rated created players. Then do a league with that? Because I don’t think you can do a league that small.

Of course, that is assuming a consensus rating of players

I never thought about the player ratings...

I might do this for fun over Christmas Holidays, perhaps I can film it and stick it on youtube or something.

[Celtic Fan Forever]

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to build our league in 2k20?

I know you can do Custom leagues but can you make a 10 team league? Is there a setting that lets you do an alltime draft? Be fun to actually simulate a season with our teams.

This would be a fun experiment, although we might run into the issue of some of the older players not being in the game. And 2K had lost the rights to some recently retired guys as well.

[Darth_Yoda]

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to build our league in 2k20?

I know you can do Custom leagues but can you make a 10 team league? Is there a setting that lets you do an alltime draft? Be fun to actually simulate a season with our teams.

This would be a fun experiment, although we might run into the issue of some of the older players not being in the game. And 2K had lost the rights to some recently retired guys as well.

It would be fun to see teams simulated against other teams.

[Jvalin]

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to build our league in 2k20?

I know you can do Custom leagues but can you make a 10 team league? Is there a setting that lets you do an alltime draft? Be fun to actually simulate a season with our teams.

This would be a fun experiment, although we might run into the issue of some of the older players not being in the game. And 2K had lost the rights to some recently retired guys as well.

How about we vote for the best 2 teams in the draft and then we simulate the Finals in 2K?

This is assuming 2K has the rights for all 24 players that would be participating in the Finals.

[Darth_Yoda]

Can anyone tell me if it is possible to build our league in 2k20?

I know you can do Custom leagues but can you make a 10 team league? Is there a setting that lets you do an alltime draft? Be fun to actually simulate a season with our teams.

This would be a fun experiment, although we might run into the issue of some of the older players not being in the game. And 2K had lost the rights to some recently retired guys as well.

How about we vote for the best 2 teams in the draft and then we simulate the Finals in 2K?

This is assuming 2K has the rights for all 24 players that would be participating in the Finals.

That would fun. And potentially (?) simpler.

[Who]

Well, I'm not sure whether this is smart or stupid but here goes.

With the first pick of the 5th round, the Chicago Bulls are going to go super-modern and switch their PF into a C and go small. Run and gun basketball.

The Bulls select Larry Nance.

G: Mark Price
G: Drazen Petrovic
F: Julius Erving
F: Larry Nance
C: Shawn Kemp

[gouki88]

Well, I'm not sure whether this is smart or stupid but here goes.

With the first pick of the 5th round, the Chicago Bulls are going to go super-modern and switch their PF into a C and go small. Run and gun basketball.

The Bulls select Larry Nance.

G: Mark Price
G: Drazen Petrovic
F: Julius Erving
F: Larry Nance
C: Shawn Kemp

This team might have the greatest highlights reel of all time. Two before-their-time shooters and 3 of the best dunkers of all time