Author Topic: Somewhat left-field trade idea involving Boston, Cleveland and San Antonio  (Read 1139 times)

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Online gouki88

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I'll lead with the trade itself. I've made two variants of it.

Firstly: https://tradenba.com/trades/suaiIn0a-

Boston trades: Enes Kanter, Robert Williams, Romeo Langford, #14, #26, #30
Boston receives: Jakob Poeltl, #5, #41

Cleveland trades: Dante Exum, Cedi Osman, #5
Cleveland receives: DeMar DeRozan, #11, #26

San Antonio trades: DeMar DeRozan, Jakob Poeltl, #11, #41
San Antonio receives: Enes Kanter, Dante Exum, Cedi Osman, Robert Williams, Romeo Langford, #14, #30

Why for Boston: First and foremost we get to move up in the draft. This gives us a shot at Hayes, Avdija, Okongwu, Wiseman, whoever we want! We get a strong defensive-minded bench big in Poeltl who can pass and is super efficient, and we get an extra second rounder in a role-player deep draft. I think given our potential roster crunch such a move could be appealing.

Why for Cleveland: They suddenly get an All-Star level wing in DeRozan who could propel them into playoff contention if Love stays healthy. DeRozan would be a great mentor for Kevin Porter Jr. If it doesn't pan out, they still get decent draft compensation to build around Sexton and get a huge expiring.

Why for San Antonio: I expect them to fully embrace the rebuild soon and say bye to Coach Pop. This kickstarts that for them. Moving down 3 spots from 11 to 14 but turning their 2nd into a late 1st is a win in this kind of draft. They also load up on expiring role players (Kanter and Exum) and cost-controlled prospects (Langford, Osman, Williams). Moving Aldridge as well could make this offseason massive for them.



The second variant is basically the same, except we don't acquire Poeltl and don't give up Timelord: https://tradenba.com/trades/zj0_IEJUa

I am a big fan of Poeltl, so I would like to nab him. He reminds me a lot of Baynes. Statistically they're very very similar: https://stathead.com/tiny/z4ZRn
Poeltl is a better passer, offensive rebounder and is much more efficient, but Baynes is stronger, better at defensive rebounding and a much better shooter. Poeltl is a really good defender.



I'd love to see us walk out with a draft of Hayes at 5, Paul Reed at 41 and Sam Merrill at 47. Sign a guy like Alec Burks / Furkan Korkmaz / GRIII with our MLE and take a flyer on Boogie Cousins and we have a legit shot at raising #18.

We'd have a rotation of:
Kemba Walker / Killian Hayes / Carsen Edwards
Jaylen Brown / Marcus Smart / Sam Merrill
Gordon Hayward / Alec Burks / Semi Ojeleye
Jayson Tatum / Grant Williams / Paul Reed
Daniel Theis / Jakob Poeltl / DeMarcus Cousins

Guys like Smart and Poeltl could start when necessary, but I'd be just as happy to keep developing Timelord.
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Offline slamtheking

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yuck.

C's give up 2 solid prospects in Timelord and Romeo as well as 3 first rounders to get a mediocre player (at best) in Poeltl (just do not understand the fascination for him) for a higher pick in a draft that's basically flat in talent and a mid-second rounder?  awful.

That's not even getting into how Cleveland is making out like bandits in that deal.

Offline Moranis

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yuck.

C's give up 2 solid prospects in Timelord and Romeo as well as 3 first rounders to get a mediocre player (at best) in Poeltl (just do not understand the fascination for him) for a higher pick in a draft that's basically flat in talent and a mid-second rounder?  awful.

That's not even getting into how Cleveland is making out like bandits in that deal.
I like the trade for Boston.  Consolidate assets and get a prime draft pick back.  There is no way San Antonio does the trade as that is pretty terrible value for them overall.  I mean they give up the best player and the best pick of their portion.  I just don't see it.  I also don't think Cleveland does either just given where they are.  They aren't going to give up the 5th pick to make a push to mediocrity.  They are taking the slow build.  They are far more likely to move on from Love then build around him.
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Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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There's a lot going on in that trade. Not a terrible weave together of the different goals for each team.

I know you are high on Poetl. This trade shows that you value him pretty highly. I'm not high on him. To me, he's a Zubac-level player. I don't even think he'd start over Theis.

With my valuation of Poetl, this trade is pretty bad for the Cs. 14, 26, 30, Williams, and Langford for 5 and a meh rotation guy is not great.

Frankly, I think Williams will be better than Poetl this year. He's certainly more dynamic and switchable.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 10:10:06 AM by DefenseWinsChamps »

Offline slamtheking

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yuck.

C's give up 2 solid prospects in Timelord and Romeo as well as 3 first rounders to get a mediocre player (at best) in Poeltl (just do not understand the fascination for him) for a higher pick in a draft that's basically flat in talent and a mid-second rounder?  awful.

That's not even getting into how Cleveland is making out like bandits in that deal.
I like the trade for Boston.  Consolidate assets and get a prime draft pick back.  There is no way San Antonio does the trade as that is pretty terrible value for them overall.  I mean they give up the best player and the best pick of their portion.  I just don't see it.  I also don't think Cleveland does either just given where they are.  They aren't going to give up the 5th pick to make a push to mediocrity.  They are taking the slow build.  They are far more likely to move on from Love then build around him.
this is a flat draft.  how is #5 a 'prime draft pick' especially while giving up 3 first rounders?  add in giving up 2 prospects who are likely to be better than the one mediocre player coming back in the deal that doesn't really fit in with what Brad's doing here and this deal is not a good one for the C's. 

Also, Cleveland would be dumping 2 mediocre players for the best player being moved in this trade as well as getting 2 first rounders in this flat draft with #11 likely to get a player that'll be as good as what they'd get at #5.  Cleveland does this in a heartbeat regardless of the likelihood they're looking to go towards a youth movement because they can get 2 prospects this draft instead of one.

Offline action781

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I don't see Cleveland, the second worst record in the NBA last season, wanting to give up a solid rebuilding asset in the #5 pick for a chance to maybe make the 2021 NBA playoffs as a low seed.

It seems other people like this for Cleveland, but I don't see that at all.
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Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I don't see Cleveland, the second worst record in the NBA last season, wanting to give up a solid rebuilding asset in the #5 pick for a chance to maybe make the 2021 NBA playoffs as a low seed.

It seems other people like this for Cleveland, but I don't see that at all.

This is like the definition of a Cleveland-type move. It doesn't mean its a good move, but it's definitely I could see them doing.

Offline Csfan1984

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Don't think it works for any of the teams. DA would have to not believe in his picks of Langford and Williams. Cavs would be wanting a one year make the playoffs. Spurs would have to love this draft and commit to more of a rebuild, which they never have committed to one that deeply in like 20 years. Just not likely.

Offline Moranis

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yuck.

C's give up 2 solid prospects in Timelord and Romeo as well as 3 first rounders to get a mediocre player (at best) in Poeltl (just do not understand the fascination for him) for a higher pick in a draft that's basically flat in talent and a mid-second rounder?  awful.

That's not even getting into how Cleveland is making out like bandits in that deal.
I like the trade for Boston.  Consolidate assets and get a prime draft pick back.  There is no way San Antonio does the trade as that is pretty terrible value for them overall.  I mean they give up the best player and the best pick of their portion.  I just don't see it.  I also don't think Cleveland does either just given where they are.  They aren't going to give up the 5th pick to make a push to mediocrity.  They are taking the slow build.  They are far more likely to move on from Love then build around him.
this is a flat draft.  how is #5 a 'prime draft pick' especially while giving up 3 first rounders?  add in giving up 2 prospects who are likely to be better than the one mediocre player coming back in the deal that doesn't really fit in with what Brad's doing here and this deal is not a good one for the C's. 

Also, Cleveland would be dumping 2 mediocre players for the best player being moved in this trade as well as getting 2 first rounders in this flat draft with #11 likely to get a player that'll be as good as what they'd get at #5.  Cleveland does this in a heartbeat regardless of the likelihood they're looking to go towards a youth movement because they can get 2 prospects this draft instead of one.
The 5th pick is significantly better than any other pick that proposed trade.  Significantly.  Even in what is a perceived to be weak draft, the difference between 5 and even 11 is large as there are about 8 or 9 players just better than everyone else in the draft (and 5 will get you a pretty decent choice).  And sure, the C's move 3 picks, but 26 and 30 aren't exactly good picks and even 14 is unlikely to land a player that will actually help a good to great team next year (whereas 5 absolutely could). 

I'm telling you, there is no way Cleveland makes that trade.  None at all.  DeRozan does nothing for them.  He is at best the 3rd best player on a good team.  He just won't move the needle at all.  I mean the Spurs were 32-39 this year and have better supporting players than the Cavs would in that scenario.  And Cleveland actually likes Osman and he is signed long term on a great contract (gets smaller every year).  Exum will have pretty decent trade value at the deadline as well given his contract is expiring and is a good size at 9.6 million.  Lots of salary dump trade options potentially available for the Cavs and they will be way below the tax level for the foreseeable future (even if they bring Thompson and their other free agents back).

The only team that trade makes sense for is Boston and that is assuming that Boston really likes someone at 5.  If Boston doesn't like someone at 5, then the trade doesn't make sense for Boston either.  Someone like Toppin, Okongwu, or Wiseman does have some appeal, especially long term, for the C's though.
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Offline GreenEnvy

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We all know Danny will do nothing noteworthy on draft night.

Most we see is picking a stash with one pick and trading one of our other firsts for a future first.

Thatís my guess: we walk out of this draft with one player for the roster next season, one overseas, and a future first founder.
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Re: Somewhat left-field trade idea involving Boston, Cleveland and San Antonio
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2020, 01:45:31 PM »

Offline SteveD

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I thought Jakob Poeltl was already a free agent. Sign and trade ?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 01:55:48 PM by SteveD »

Re: Somewhat left-field trade idea involving Boston, Cleveland and San Antonio
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2020, 06:10:26 PM »

Online gouki88

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Ha, I thought it would be polarising, didnít expect almost every post to come to a different conclusion though!

Iíd probably only do it if Wiseman or Hayes is available if Iím honest with myself. Definitely understand wanting to keep TL over Poeltl, Iím just concerned about his durability vs Poeltlís super consistent health
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Re: Somewhat left-field trade idea involving Boston, Cleveland and San Antonio
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2020, 06:48:21 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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yuck.

C's give up 2 solid prospects in Timelord and Romeo as well as 3 first rounders to get a mediocre player (at best) in Poeltl (just do not understand the fascination for him) for a higher pick in a draft that's basically flat in talent and a mid-second rounder?  awful.

That's not even getting into how Cleveland is making out like bandits in that deal.
I like the trade for Boston.  Consolidate assets and get a prime draft pick back.  There is no way San Antonio does the trade as that is pretty terrible value for them overall.  I mean they give up the best player and the best pick of their portion.  I just don't see it.  I also don't think Cleveland does either just given where they are.  They aren't going to give up the 5th pick to make a push to mediocrity.  They are taking the slow build.  They are far more likely to move on from Love then build around him.
this is a flat draft.  how is #5 a 'prime draft pick' especially while giving up 3 first rounders?  add in giving up 2 prospects who are likely to be better than the one mediocre player coming back in the deal that doesn't really fit in with what Brad's doing here and this deal is not a good one for the C's. 

Also, Cleveland would be dumping 2 mediocre players for the best player being moved in this trade as well as getting 2 first rounders in this flat draft with #11 likely to get a player that'll be as good as what they'd get at #5.  Cleveland does this in a heartbeat regardless of the likelihood they're looking to go towards a youth movement because they can get 2 prospects this draft instead of one.
The 5th pick is significantly better than any other pick that proposed trade.  Significantly.  Even in what is a perceived to be weak draft, the difference between 5 and even 11 is large as there are about 8 or 9 players just better than everyone else in the draft (and 5 will get you a pretty decent choice).  And sure, the C's move 3 picks, but 26 and 30 aren't exactly good picks and even 14 is unlikely to land a player that will actually help a good to great team next year (whereas 5 absolutely could). 

I'm telling you, there is no way Cleveland makes that trade.  None at all.  DeRozan does nothing for them.  He is at best the 3rd best player on a good team.  He just won't move the needle at all.  I mean the Spurs were 32-39 this year and have better supporting players than the Cavs would in that scenario.  And Cleveland actually likes Osman and he is signed long term on a great contract (gets smaller every year).  Exum will have pretty decent trade value at the deadline as well given his contract is expiring and is a good size at 9.6 million.  Lots of salary dump trade options potentially available for the Cavs and they will be way below the tax level for the foreseeable future (even if they bring Thompson and their other free agents back).

The only team that trade makes sense for is Boston and that is assuming that Boston really likes someone at 5.  If Boston doesn't like someone at 5, then the trade doesn't make sense for Boston either.  Someone like Toppin, Okongwu, or Wiseman does have some appeal, especially long term, for the C's though.
I agree.  Doesn't seem like the right trade for any of the teams to make. 

Re: Somewhat left-field trade idea involving Boston, Cleveland and San Antonio
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2020, 08:31:03 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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yuck.

C's give up 2 solid prospects in Timelord and Romeo as well as 3 first rounders to get a mediocre player (at best) in Poeltl (just do not understand the fascination for him) for a higher pick in a draft that's basically flat in talent and a mid-second rounder?  awful.

That's not even getting into how Cleveland is making out like bandits in that deal.
I like the trade for Boston.  Consolidate assets and get a prime draft pick back.  There is no way San Antonio does the trade as that is pretty terrible value for them overall.  I mean they give up the best player and the best pick of their portion.  I just don't see it.  I also don't think Cleveland does either just given where they are.  They aren't going to give up the 5th pick to make a push to mediocrity.  They are taking the slow build.  They are far more likely to move on from Love then build around him.
this is a flat draft.  how is #5 a 'prime draft pick' especially while giving up 3 first rounders?  add in giving up 2 prospects who are likely to be better than the one mediocre player coming back in the deal that doesn't really fit in with what Brad's doing here and this deal is not a good one for the C's. 

Also, Cleveland would be dumping 2 mediocre players for the best player being moved in this trade as well as getting 2 first rounders in this flat draft with #11 likely to get a player that'll be as good as what they'd get at #5.  Cleveland does this in a heartbeat regardless of the likelihood they're looking to go towards a youth movement because they can get 2 prospects this draft instead of one.
The 5th pick is significantly better than any other pick that proposed trade.  Significantly.  Even in what is a perceived to be weak draft, the difference between 5 and even 11 is large as there are about 8 or 9 players just better than everyone else in the draft (and 5 will get you a pretty decent choice).  And sure, the C's move 3 picks, but 26 and 30 aren't exactly good picks and even 14 is unlikely to land a player that will actually help a good to great team next year (whereas 5 absolutely could). 

I'm telling you, there is no way Cleveland makes that trade.  None at all.  DeRozan does nothing for them.  He is at best the 3rd best player on a good team.  He just won't move the needle at all.  I mean the Spurs were 32-39 this year and have better supporting players than the Cavs would in that scenario.  And Cleveland actually likes Osman and he is signed long term on a great contract (gets smaller every year).  Exum will have pretty decent trade value at the deadline as well given his contract is expiring and is a good size at 9.6 million.  Lots of salary dump trade options potentially available for the Cavs and they will be way below the tax level for the foreseeable future (even if they bring Thompson and their other free agents back).

The only team that trade makes sense for is Boston and that is assuming that Boston really likes someone at 5.  If Boston doesn't like someone at 5, then the trade doesn't make sense for Boston either.  Someone like Toppin, Okongwu, or Wiseman does have some appeal, especially long term, for the C's though.
you and I are just on opposite viewpoints on this.  I do agree Derozan doesn't help Cleveland long term but  he is the best player in the deal.   

Re: Somewhat left-field trade idea involving Boston, Cleveland and San Antonio
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2020, 10:50:57 AM »

Offline Moranis

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yuck.

C's give up 2 solid prospects in Timelord and Romeo as well as 3 first rounders to get a mediocre player (at best) in Poeltl (just do not understand the fascination for him) for a higher pick in a draft that's basically flat in talent and a mid-second rounder?  awful.

That's not even getting into how Cleveland is making out like bandits in that deal.
I like the trade for Boston.  Consolidate assets and get a prime draft pick back.  There is no way San Antonio does the trade as that is pretty terrible value for them overall.  I mean they give up the best player and the best pick of their portion.  I just don't see it.  I also don't think Cleveland does either just given where they are.  They aren't going to give up the 5th pick to make a push to mediocrity.  They are taking the slow build.  They are far more likely to move on from Love then build around him.
this is a flat draft.  how is #5 a 'prime draft pick' especially while giving up 3 first rounders?  add in giving up 2 prospects who are likely to be better than the one mediocre player coming back in the deal that doesn't really fit in with what Brad's doing here and this deal is not a good one for the C's. 

Also, Cleveland would be dumping 2 mediocre players for the best player being moved in this trade as well as getting 2 first rounders in this flat draft with #11 likely to get a player that'll be as good as what they'd get at #5.  Cleveland does this in a heartbeat regardless of the likelihood they're looking to go towards a youth movement because they can get 2 prospects this draft instead of one.
The 5th pick is significantly better than any other pick that proposed trade.  Significantly.  Even in what is a perceived to be weak draft, the difference between 5 and even 11 is large as there are about 8 or 9 players just better than everyone else in the draft (and 5 will get you a pretty decent choice).  And sure, the C's move 3 picks, but 26 and 30 aren't exactly good picks and even 14 is unlikely to land a player that will actually help a good to great team next year (whereas 5 absolutely could). 

I'm telling you, there is no way Cleveland makes that trade.  None at all.  DeRozan does nothing for them.  He is at best the 3rd best player on a good team.  He just won't move the needle at all.  I mean the Spurs were 32-39 this year and have better supporting players than the Cavs would in that scenario.  And Cleveland actually likes Osman and he is signed long term on a great contract (gets smaller every year).  Exum will have pretty decent trade value at the deadline as well given his contract is expiring and is a good size at 9.6 million.  Lots of salary dump trade options potentially available for the Cavs and they will be way below the tax level for the foreseeable future (even if they bring Thompson and their other free agents back).

The only team that trade makes sense for is Boston and that is assuming that Boston really likes someone at 5.  If Boston doesn't like someone at 5, then the trade doesn't make sense for Boston either.  Someone like Toppin, Okongwu, or Wiseman does have some appeal, especially long term, for the C's though.
you and I are just on opposite viewpoints on this.  I do agree Derozan doesn't help Cleveland long term but  he is the best player in the deal.
As said in my original post, DeRozan in the best player in the trade, which is why it makes no sense at all for San Antonio and isn't the type of move Cleveland would make.  I just don't mind the Boston part of the trade, as I absolutely believe the player Boston would land at 5 would be better than any player Boston sends out in the trade.
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