Why were the Lakers able to shut down the Heat but the C's could not?

[RodyTur10]

In approximately 70 minutes the combination of Davis/Howard had a defensive rating of 126.3. 

In approximately 160 minutes Davis was on the floor without Howard the Lakers defensive rating was 98.4.

In approximately 59 minutes that Davis was off the floor the Lakers defensive rating was 123.9.

Looking at the above the Heat were quite successful against all lineups that did not have Anthony Davis playing Center.  The Heat flat struggled creating offense when Davis was patrolling the paint.


Breaking it down further.

Davis defensive rating when Adebayo was on the floor in app. 112 minutes was 96.4.

Davis defensive rating when Olynyk was on the floor in app. 80 minutes was 121.9.

Davis defensive rating when Leonard was on the floor in app. 22 minutes was 120.9

The Heats inability to score when Adebayo was playing center allowing Davis to patrol the paint was the difference in the series.  The loss of Dragic also hurt because that left the Heat with only Butler as a reliable creator and Adebayo playing injured had some effect also.  I think as well as many others do that it was a tactical mistake by Spoelstra to not use his floor spacing big men far more often in games 4-6 against Davis to pull him out of the paint. 

Conversely in the Celtics series the C's posted a defensive rating of 116.1 in 234 minutes against Adebayo.  The C's were unable to slow the Heat's offense as the Lakers subsequently did against Adebayo lineups.  The Heat zone that was much more effective against the C's had to be largely abandoned versus the Lakers as Rondo, A.D. and Lebron were picking them apart.

Excellent breakdown of what happened. Thank you. So essentially the Lakers completely shut down Adebayo (who is the Heat's engine similar to how Jokic is for the Nuggets) and the Celtics could not. If the C's could have slowed Adebayo just a little bit the series could have been different. This is more evidence that the C's need someone better than Theis at center.

Or just more size overall in the frontcourt. When you have Hayward, Tatum or Grant Williams at PF you're already giving up some length or size, when you also play an undersized center in Theis you put a lot of pressure on these guys.

I'm sure the Raptors would have done a better job against Adebayo, while I wouldn't necessarily say that Siakam/Gasol is better than Tatum/Theis. It's just that size matters.

[RockinRyA]

1. They lost Dragic out of the gate. He was playing at a career best level and is really good at breaking guys down, breaking defenses down. When he’s doing that Herro and Johnson have many more good looks.

2. Herro, Johnson and company had zero hesitation at running it down our throats at the rim - zero. Against the Lakers that lane doesn’t look as inviting to them with Davis and Howard back there. That makes it easier for the guards to defend them in the perimeter as well. Ainge and Stevens need to get some big guys bigger than 6’8” that can play the game of basketball.

3. Celtics has no one who could even half contain Bam Adebayo. At 6’10” he was far too big for anyone on our  team to deal with. Every time we’d play good D Bam would break us down with a lob dunk or drive to the rim. Again Ainge and Stevens need to invest som draft, free agent and trade capital into finding male humans larger than 6’8” who can play the game of basketball. It’s far less than rocket science. Based on playoff history it’s about the most 101 thing you need to do if you want to win a championship - you have to have serviceable big men, at worst. We currently do not have a serviceable NBA big man rotation.

My favorite play of the finals was Bam seeking contact for an “and 1” on Howard. Howard obliges Bam’s ask and then he missed two games. And that was not a dirty play by Howard. He basically said “if you’re seeking contact I’ll meet you half way, and your welcome by the way”. He basically said “get that crap out of here”. That is something this Celtics team is incapable of doing as it is currently constructed. And it is something that is incredibly critical to be able to do - Control/dominate the paint with sound, not dirty, basketball force.

Ironically it was Grant Williams(massively undersized) who did the best against Bam.

[ScoobyDoo]

It the absence of being able to do something significant, and I grant Ainge the nod that it's really hard to get the things done you'd like to most of the time, had he simply made the "tiny little fringe moves" at the margins we probably raise a banner this year, or at worst are in the in the finals.

What would those fringe moves have been this year? Acquiring two of Noel, Cauley Stein or Howard when they were available for nothing to sign (Noel for $1.7 or something for two years, or Cauley Stein for a second round pick (?), Howard was available for nothing as well (Maybe he wanted the Lakers...). Point is that even one more active, agile big man like Noel or Stein would probably have given Adebayo enough size/length/trouble that we win that series going away. Instead we attached Adebayo literally throw us around the paint - it was an embarrassment. Just - NO.

Ainge should take a look at a guy who came before him that wasn't too bad at building teams. Every one of Auerbach's teams had a certain level of nastiness in the paint. it is a 101 requirement in man's league. I want Brown tooling on off guards, not trying to wrestle with the 6' 10" Adebayo.

RockinRya, I hear you and I love Grant Williams. If it were my call I might ask him to drop 20 lbs and become a power three where he could literally toss guys all over the floor all night. His foot work is so good that he could probably do it well if he lost weight. I get that Grant can effectively play some small ball four in today's NBA, at times. But, he can't be the fall back - he's going to get hosed more often than not as the you go deeper into the playoffs.


   

[RodyTur10]

It the absence of being able to do something significant, and I grant Ainge the nod that it's really hard to get the things done you'd like to most of the time, had he simply made the "tiny little fringe moves" at the margins we probably raise a banner this year, or at worst are in the in the finals.

What would those fringe moves have been this year? Acquiring two of Noel, Cauley Stein or Howard when they were available for nothing to sign (Noel for $1.7 or something for two years, or Cauley Stein for a second round pick (?), Howard was available for nothing as well (Maybe he wanted the Lakers...). Point is that even one more active, agile big man like Noel or Stein would probably have given Adebayo enough size/length/trouble that we win that series going away. Instead we attached Adebayo literally throw us around the paint - it was an embarrassment. Just - NO.

Ainge should take a look at a guy who came before him that wasn't too bad at building teams. Every one of Auerbach's teams had a certain level of nastiness in the paint. it is a 101 requirement in man's league. I want Brown tooling on off guards, not trying to wrestle with the 6' 10" Adebayo.

RockinRya, I hear you and I love Grant Williams. If it were my call I might ask him to drop 20 lbs and become a power three where he could literally toss guys all over the floor all night. His foot work is so good that he could probably do it well if he lost weight. I get that Grant can effectively play some small ball four in today's NBA, at times. But, he can't be the fall back - he's going to get hosed more often than not as the you go deeper into the playoffs.

I fully agree with you on Brown's role on defense. The reason why Grant did a good job against Adebayo is his strength, weight, agility and positional awareness. He has really started to grow on me. But what helps him is that Adebayo isn't much of a (willing) jumpshooter. 

Grant had more difficulty with Siakam who's faster and exploits his length advantage. Elite (offensive) forwards/centers as James, Leonard, Durant, Antetokounmpo, Collins, Davis, Towns, Porzingis, Jokic or Embiid can just shoot right over him.

I believe there can be a role for Grant on a contender, but he'll need a guy next to him with elite length who can bring help defense, protect the rim and get defensive rebounds. I know the small ball closing line up with Grant at center had some good results, but I don't believe that can be sustainable over time.

[Androslav]

Miami without Dragić and Adebayo is a 40ish win team. That's why the Lakers shut them down. Miami was undermined, just as we were against them.
In our series Bam was the best player. Take him out and we have a different series.

[Somebody]

It the absence of being able to do something significant, and I grant Ainge the nod that it's really hard to get the things done you'd like to most of the time, had he simply made the "tiny little fringe moves" at the margins we probably raise a banner this year, or at worst are in the in the finals.

What would those fringe moves have been this year? Acquiring two of Noel, Cauley Stein or Howard when they were available for nothing to sign (Noel for $1.7 or something for two years, or Cauley Stein for a second round pick (?), Howard was available for nothing as well (Maybe he wanted the Lakers...). Point is that even one more active, agile big man like Noel or Stein would probably have given Adebayo enough size/length/trouble that we win that series going away. Instead we attached Adebayo literally throw us around the paint - it was an embarrassment. Just - NO.

Ainge should take a look at a guy who came before him that wasn't too bad at building teams. Every one of Auerbach's teams had a certain level of nastiness in the paint. it is a 101 requirement in man's league. I want Brown tooling on off guards, not trying to wrestle with the 6' 10" Adebayo.

RockinRya, I hear you and I love Grant Williams. If it were my call I might ask him to drop 20 lbs and become a power three where he could literally toss guys all over the floor all night. His foot work is so good that he could probably do it well if he lost weight. I get that Grant can effectively play some small ball four in today's NBA, at times. But, he can't be the fall back - he's going to get hosed more often than not as the you go deeper into the playoffs.

I fully agree with you on Brown's role on defense. The reason why Grant did a good job against Adebayo is his strength, weight, agility and positional awareness. He has really started to grow on me. But what helps him is that Adebayo isn't much of a (willing) jumpshooter. 

Grant had more difficulty with Siakam who's faster and exploits his length advantage. Elite (offensive) forwards/centers as James, Leonard, Durant, Antetokounmpo, Collins, Davis, Towns, Porzingis, Jokic or Embiid can just shoot right over him.

I believe there can be a role for Grant on a contender, but he'll need a guy next to him with elite length who can bring help defense, protect the rim and get defensive rebounds. I know the small ball closing line up with Grant at center had some good results, but I don't believe that can be sustainable over time.

The bolded sounds like Jayson Tatum , I've been bashing on his foot speed for ages but he's a really lengthy swing who's borderline elite for a forward at providing help defence, rim protection and defensive rebounding.

[Bobshot]

The answer, in a word, is size.

The Celtics don't have the size to compete against the top teams. Or at least they don't USE size.

[RodyTur10]

It the absence of being able to do something significant, and I grant Ainge the nod that it's really hard to get the things done you'd like to most of the time, had he simply made the "tiny little fringe moves" at the margins we probably raise a banner this year, or at worst are in the in the finals.

What would those fringe moves have been this year? Acquiring two of Noel, Cauley Stein or Howard when they were available for nothing to sign (Noel for $1.7 or something for two years, or Cauley Stein for a second round pick (?), Howard was available for nothing as well (Maybe he wanted the Lakers...). Point is that even one more active, agile big man like Noel or Stein would probably have given Adebayo enough size/length/trouble that we win that series going away. Instead we attached Adebayo literally throw us around the paint - it was an embarrassment. Just - NO.

Ainge should take a look at a guy who came before him that wasn't too bad at building teams. Every one of Auerbach's teams had a certain level of nastiness in the paint. it is a 101 requirement in man's league. I want Brown tooling on off guards, not trying to wrestle with the 6' 10" Adebayo.

RockinRya, I hear you and I love Grant Williams. If it were my call I might ask him to drop 20 lbs and become a power three where he could literally toss guys all over the floor all night. His foot work is so good that he could probably do it well if he lost weight. I get that Grant can effectively play some small ball four in today's NBA, at times. But, he can't be the fall back - he's going to get hosed more often than not as the you go deeper into the playoffs.

I fully agree with you on Brown's role on defense. The reason why Grant did a good job against Adebayo is his strength, weight, agility and positional awareness. He has really started to grow on me. But what helps him is that Adebayo isn't much of a (willing) jumpshooter. 

Grant had more difficulty with Siakam who's faster and exploits his length advantage. Elite (offensive) forwards/centers as James, Leonard, Durant, Antetokounmpo, Collins, Davis, Towns, Porzingis, Jokic or Embiid can just shoot right over him.

I believe there can be a role for Grant on a contender, but he'll need a guy next to him with elite length who can bring help defense, protect the rim and get defensive rebounds. I know the small ball closing line up with Grant at center had some good results, but I don't believe that can be sustainable over time.

The bolded sounds like Jayson Tatum , I've been bashing on his foot speed for ages but he's a really lengthy swing who's borderline elite for a forward at providing help defence, rim protection and defensive rebounding.

Funny indeed. Tatum, R.Williams and Theis are part of a group of 24 players that averaged at least 6.0 DREB + 0.8 BLK per 36 mins during the playoffs (minimum of 80 minutes played, 134 players qualified).

Jayson Tatum per 36: 7.7 DREB + 1.0 BLK
Robert Williams per 36: 7.0 DREB + 1.4 BLK
Daniel Theis per 36: 6.6 DREB + 1.6 BLK

I was more thinking about a more experienced Timelord than Tatum. Again Tatum/Grant worked well in small stints, but I don't believe that's a longterm option. 

Stats aren't everything but the conditions I set (at least 6.0 DREB, 0.8 BLK per 36, minimum 80 MIN) gave the exact type of group of players you'd expect when we're talking about elite rim protectors / defensive big men / defensive forwards with elite size.

To find 3 Boston players there surprised me a bit to be honest (Lakers had 4: McGee, Howard, Davis, James / Miami had 2: Adebayo, Olynyk  ).

Over the whole season Robinson, Isaac, Lopez, Antetokounmpo, Valanciunas, Jordan, Embiid, Drummond, Capela, Gobert, Howard, Porzingis, Poeltl, McGee, Whiteside, Bamba, Noel, Ibaka, Turner and Allen (no particular order) statistically (only looking at defensive rebounds and blocks) stand out as rim protectors. Timelord is right there in the mix though (just less playing time, you'd expect a Timelord could change that  ).

Theis gets a decent amount of blocks, but lacks a bit in the rebounding department. Theis has less total defensive rebounds this year than both Tatum and Brown (granted they played more minutes) and only finished ahead of Hayward and Kanter due to Gordon's injury and Kanter's minutes decrease.

[ScoobyDoo]

I think in fairness to Ainge, his belief was that Horford would be back at an agreeable price. If that had played out I have no doubt Horford's size would have been enough for us to win the ECF this year going away, 4-2 or 4-1 over Miami. Horford's guile, strength and relative length size world have been enough to disrupt much of what Adebayo did to us. I think we also would have given the Lakers everything they wanted as well.

So we move forward. The team is really outstanding position 1-3, in the realm of league best. OK, good. If you have the will to now add meaningful size to the front court - and we have the tools to do so whether by trades, draft or free agency, this team very quickly becomes one of the most loaded balanced and talented squads. Proper size in the middle will further unleash Tatum and Brown as well.

Just adding Baynes via free agency would be massive for this team. Then draft at least two other legit big man with picks 14, 26 & 30:  Two of Achiwa, Jalen Smith, Vernon Carey, Tillman, Azubuke, Perry, Oturu, Stewart, Reed etc.

Let Theis and Baynes lead with the veteran experience. In development, Robert Williams, Grant Williams, two other big men via the draft.

Personally, I'd give strong consideration to Tillman and Azubuke at 26 and 30. Tillman plays like Smart or Grant Williams, just at 6'9" and 245 lbs and I like the concept of serious rim protection for 48 minutes between Time Lord and Azubuke.

I want the big guys so bad on this team I might even go Achiwa, Jalen Smith or Vernon Carey at 14 - whichever guy I thought good provide solid D and solid offense as a potential start long term, and then load up again at 26 and 30 with some combo of Oturu, Tillman, Azubuke, Perry, Stewart etc.