Author Topic: Keys to Next Season  (Read 2080 times)

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Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2020, 08:35:44 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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I think the hardest decision is whether to put the chips down on Rob Williams or go hard after another center. If you keep Williams you need to give him reps so he can learn. I guess they can commit to 20+ mins a night for the first half of the year. Best outcome is the experiment succeeds. If not, do what you can at the deadline. I just have no idea what he’s capable of. He shows flashes and then he’s awful.

Another way to go is to see if you can package Timelord with 14 and 30 to the Hawks for pick 6. Take Okongwu as your center of the future or (if you can resign Baynes) take Haliburton or Hayes as a bench pg who can someday replace kemba.

Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2020, 08:52:05 AM »

Offline td450

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Full focus around Tatum and Brown. Its their team, period.

Get second tier buy in and support performance from Walker, Hayward and Smart. Kemba's knee shouldn't matter so much next year because he shouldn't matter so much next year. He can evolve into a Lou Williams type of contributor for 1-2 years and then we can move him to a team looking for an expiring contract. Mostly, we need these three to reset their roles, so they are reliable but not getting in the way of Tatum and Brown. The biggest worry here is Smart, who has to stay under 12 shots per game.

Trade up for Okongwu with our other picks. If we need to give up Langford or Grant Williams too, then do it.

Most important: Whoever remains out of Okongwu, Langford, G Williams and R. Williams - Stevens needs to be willing to commit to make them into real players that can stand up in the playoffs as rotation players. They don't need to become stars, but they need to be able to play reliable playoff minutes. He has to give them substantial, stable rotation roles and they need to become dependable two way players.

He barely allowed Grant Williams and Wannamaker this amount of trust last year. That isn't a bench. We have to have healthy normal player development down the bench. We've got the players.

If we can get a more reliable supporting cast, I think Tatum and Brown will be ready to bring us the rest of the way.


Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2020, 11:39:01 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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Keys to next season (if not longer):
1. get healthy.  this was our single biggest killer this past season and playoffs.  Easier said than done but if the players we anticipate retaining for next season stay healthy (nothing more than minor nicks and miss no more than 10% of the games during the season and none in the playoffs) then they are good enough to be contenders.
2. More improvement from the youth.  Need further development by Tatum, Brown, Timelord, Romeo, Smart and Gwill.  I'm not expecting anything out of Semi, Edwards, Waters or Tacko --> would be fairly surprised if any returned.
3. clear roster deadwood and try to improve bench using that deadwood in trades if possible.  I've mentioned in other threads that I highly suspect Danny will need to use one of our picks this year to clear Poirier at a minimum and probably Edwards and Semi from the roster to make room for a decent vet free agent and whatever picks he still makes this year.  Expecting Kanter to pick up his option so he may be part of a deal to move him elsewhere.  I doubt Wanamaker picks up his option since he's likely to be paid better elsewhere.
4. Make the most of free agency in terms of getting at least 2 capable vets for the bench.  we're very limited in what we can offer so we're not getting the cream of the crop but hopefully Danny can land a couple of vets that can provide defense and capable scoring (3&D guard or big man that can rebound and make buckets around the basket at least --> need someone at least at Kanter's level in that regard but hopefully with better D).
5. Any picks made this year should not be expected to provide much -- no relying on rookies as rotational players.  Make the best picks possible (BPA or in the event of multiple players of equal projected talent, opt towards the one that would fill a weakness best such as a big defender/rebounder or lights-out shooter)
6. This is on the coaching staff
6A. get away from the love affair for 3 pointers.  This team is much better on offense when driving to the bucket.  So many times I've screamed at my TV watching someone drive in the paint and have a fairly open shot from in the paint only to kick it out for a 3 pointer that's bricked --> especially during one of their shooting droughts. 
6B. improve transition defense.  Team gets constantly killed when they miss a layup and because we're ineffective on the offense boards (except Kanter), the other team grabs the rebound and ends up with an easy layup. 
6C. eliminate tendency for team to go into ISO offense when they get behind or are trying to milk a lead.  Team's penchant for going solo on offense makes it so much easier for the opposing defense to stop them.  Team's 'success' on those iso plays is horrid.

Those are the keys as I see them.  lots more smaller things to improve but if they can address those items (or most of them), they'll be contending next season and likely beyond that.

Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2020, 12:11:23 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think the hardest decision is whether to put the chips down on Rob Williams or go hard after another center. If you keep Williams you need to give him reps so he can learn. I guess they can commit to 20+ mins a night for the first half of the year. Best outcome is the experiment succeeds. If not, do what you can at the deadline. I just have no idea what he’s capable of. He shows flashes and then he’s awful.

Another way to go is to see if you can package Timelord with 14 and 30 to the Hawks for pick 6. Take Okongwu as your center of the future or (if you can resign Baynes) take Haliburton or Hayes as a bench pg who can someday replace kemba.


I don't think they need to add a major upgrade at center.  If Rob Williams can stay healthy and become more consistent, a timeshare with him and Theis should be more than good enough.

I do think they need to add a third guy who can actually play on both ends when either Theis or Rob is hurt.  Theis was remarkably healthy this year but in the past was a bit injury prone.  Rob has had some trouble staying available as well.

If they could sign Baynes to a reasonable deal I think that'd be perfect.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2020, 12:36:49 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I think the hardest decision is whether to put the chips down on Rob Williams or go hard after another center. If you keep Williams you need to give him reps so he can learn. I guess they can commit to 20+ mins a night for the first half of the year. Best outcome is the experiment succeeds. If not, do what you can at the deadline. I just have no idea what he’s capable of. He shows flashes and then he’s awful.

Another way to go is to see if you can package Timelord with 14 and 30 to the Hawks for pick 6. Take Okongwu as your center of the future or (if you can resign Baynes) take Haliburton or Hayes as a bench pg who can someday replace kemba.


I don't think they need to add a major upgrade at center.  If Rob Williams can stay healthy and become more consistent, a timeshare with him and Theis should be more than good enough.

I do think they need to add a third guy who can actually play on both ends when either Theis or Rob is hurt.  Theis was remarkably healthy this year but in the past was a bit injury prone.  Rob has had some trouble staying available as well.

If they could sign Baynes to a reasonable deal I think that'd be perfect.
would love to get Baynes back in place of Kanter but really wonder if he'd be open to returning and if we have the money to afford him.  he had his injury issues when he was here too

Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2020, 12:51:41 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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would love to get Baynes back in place of Kanter but really wonder if he'd be open to returning and if we have the money to afford him.  he had his injury issues when he was here too


Yeah, he did.  I'm not sure if he's in the price range.

But I figure between those three we ought to have two available to play 20-24 minutes each.  That would cover the bases pretty well I think.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2020, 03:28:57 PM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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I think the hardest decision is whether to put the chips down on Rob Williams or go hard after another center. If you keep Williams you need to give him reps so he can learn. I guess they can commit to 20+ mins a night for the first half of the year. Best outcome is the experiment succeeds. If not, do what you can at the deadline. I just have no idea what he’s capable of. He shows flashes and then he’s awful.

Another way to go is to see if you can package Timelord with 14 and 30 to the Hawks for pick 6. Take Okongwu as your center of the future or (if you can resign Baynes) take Haliburton or Hayes as a bench pg who can someday replace kemba.


I don't think they need to add a major upgrade at center.  If Rob Williams can stay healthy and become more consistent, a timeshare with him and Theis should be more than good enough.

I do think they need to add a third guy who can actually play on both ends when either Theis or Rob is hurt.  Theis was remarkably healthy this year but in the past was a bit injury prone.  Rob has had some trouble staying available as well.

If they could sign Baynes to a reasonable deal I think that'd be perfect.

I really like Rob, but he just always looks to me like an injury about to happen.  He winds up on the floor frequently, falls awkwardly...   Makes me nervous.  Maybe his body can adjust as he becomes "full grown" and ends up with more solid legs.   And this is with him playing 13 mpg over the course of only 29 games (in 2019-20).   

What value does Rob add in a package for a veteran center?

Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2020, 03:47:34 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I think the hardest decision is whether to put the chips down on Rob Williams or go hard after another center. If you keep Williams you need to give him reps so he can learn. I guess they can commit to 20+ mins a night for the first half of the year. Best outcome is the experiment succeeds. If not, do what you can at the deadline. I just have no idea what he’s capable of. He shows flashes and then he’s awful.

Another way to go is to see if you can package Timelord with 14 and 30 to the Hawks for pick 6. Take Okongwu as your center of the future or (if you can resign Baynes) take Haliburton or Hayes as a bench pg who can someday replace kemba.


I don't think they need to add a major upgrade at center.  If Rob Williams can stay healthy and become more consistent, a timeshare with him and Theis should be more than good enough.

I do think they need to add a third guy who can actually play on both ends when either Theis or Rob is hurt.  Theis was remarkably healthy this year but in the past was a bit injury prone.  Rob has had some trouble staying available as well.

If they could sign Baynes to a reasonable deal I think that'd be perfect.

I really like Rob, but he just always looks to me like an injury about to happen.  He winds up on the floor frequently, falls awkwardly...   Makes me nervous.  Maybe his body can adjust as he becomes "full grown" and ends up with more solid legs.   And this is with him playing 13 mpg over the course of only 29 games (in 2019-20).   

What value does Rob add in a package for a veteran center?
I'm not sure Timelord's the answer as the starting center.  he's looking like he can be a solid rotation player off the bench for next season but his team D needs a lot of work.  Theis similarly would be a solid addition off the bench for this team if we had a better option as a starter. 

Ideally we'd have Baynes or Horford still starting for us and then our center position would look pretty good.

Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2020, 03:52:39 PM »

Online liam

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I think the hardest decision is whether to put the chips down on Rob Williams or go hard after another center. If you keep Williams you need to give him reps so he can learn. I guess they can commit to 20+ mins a night for the first half of the year. Best outcome is the experiment succeeds. If not, do what you can at the deadline. I just have no idea what he’s capable of. He shows flashes and then he’s awful.

Another way to go is to see if you can package Timelord with 14 and 30 to the Hawks for pick 6. Take Okongwu as your center of the future or (if you can resign Baynes) take Haliburton or Hayes as a bench pg who can someday replace kemba.


I don't think they need to add a major upgrade at center.  If Rob Williams can stay healthy and become more consistent, a timeshare with him and Theis should be more than good enough.

I do think they need to add a third guy who can actually play on both ends when either Theis or Rob is hurt.  Theis was remarkably healthy this year but in the past was a bit injury prone.  Rob has had some trouble staying available as well.

If they could sign Baynes to a reasonable deal I think that'd be perfect.

I really like Rob, but he just always looks to me like an injury about to happen.  He winds up on the floor frequently, falls awkwardly...   Makes me nervous.  Maybe his body can adjust as he becomes "full grown" and ends up with more solid legs.   And this is with him playing 13 mpg over the course of only 29 games (in 2019-20).   

What value does Rob add in a package for a veteran center?
I'm not sure Timelord's the answer as the starting center.  he's looking like he can be a solid rotation player off the bench for next season but his team D needs a lot of work.  Theis similarly would be a solid addition off the bench for this team if we had a better option as a starter. 

Ideally we'd have Baynes or Horford still starting for us and then our center position would look pretty good.

TIMELORD is only 22. He's got a rediculous 7'6" wingspan and he moves well. He's shots 71% on 2 point shots, granted most of those are dunks, but he's also improved his elbow jumper and his freethrow shooting. His per 36 numbers are 11 rb 12 pts and only 4 fouls....Health is what has held him back. He needs reps.

Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2020, 04:00:03 PM »

Offline footey

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I think the hardest decision is whether to put the chips down on Rob Williams or go hard after another center. If you keep Williams you need to give him reps so he can learn. I guess they can commit to 20+ mins a night for the first half of the year. Best outcome is the experiment succeeds. If not, do what you can at the deadline. I just have no idea what he’s capable of. He shows flashes and then he’s awful.

Another way to go is to see if you can package Timelord with 14 and 30 to the Hawks for pick 6. Take Okongwu as your center of the future or (if you can resign Baynes) take Haliburton or Hayes as a bench pg who can someday replace kemba.


I don't think they need to add a major upgrade at center.  If Rob Williams can stay healthy and become more consistent, a timeshare with him and Theis should be more than good enough.

I do think they need to add a third guy who can actually play on both ends when either Theis or Rob is hurt.  Theis was remarkably healthy this year but in the past was a bit injury prone.  Rob has had some trouble staying available as well.

If they could sign Baynes to a reasonable deal I think that'd be perfect.

I really like Rob, but he just always looks to me like an injury about to happen.  He winds up on the floor frequently, falls awkwardly...   Makes me nervous.  Maybe his body can adjust as he becomes "full grown" and ends up with more solid legs.   And this is with him playing 13 mpg over the course of only 29 games (in 2019-20).   

What value does Rob add in a package for a veteran center?
I'm not sure Timelord's the answer as the starting center.  he's looking like he can be a solid rotation player off the bench for next season but his team D needs a lot of work.  Theis similarly would be a solid addition off the bench for this team if we had a better option as a starter. 

Ideally we'd have Baynes or Horford still starting for us and then our center position would look pretty good.

TIMELORD is only 22. He's got a rediculous 7'6" wingspan and he moves well. He's shots 71% on 2 point shots, granted most of those are dunks, but he's also improved his elbow jumper and his freethrow shooting. His per 36 numbers are 11 rb 12 pts and only 4 fouls....Health is what has held him back. He needs reps.

Health is holding him back.

And Brad Stevens. Brad has to tolerate his mistakes on defense, let him play through them so that he gains more experience is will be less prone to make them.

Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2020, 04:27:11 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I think the hardest decision is whether to put the chips down on Rob Williams or go hard after another center. If you keep Williams you need to give him reps so he can learn. I guess they can commit to 20+ mins a night for the first half of the year. Best outcome is the experiment succeeds. If not, do what you can at the deadline. I just have no idea what he’s capable of. He shows flashes and then he’s awful.

Another way to go is to see if you can package Timelord with 14 and 30 to the Hawks for pick 6. Take Okongwu as your center of the future or (if you can resign Baynes) take Haliburton or Hayes as a bench pg who can someday replace kemba.


I don't think they need to add a major upgrade at center.  If Rob Williams can stay healthy and become more consistent, a timeshare with him and Theis should be more than good enough.

I do think they need to add a third guy who can actually play on both ends when either Theis or Rob is hurt.  Theis was remarkably healthy this year but in the past was a bit injury prone.  Rob has had some trouble staying available as well.

If they could sign Baynes to a reasonable deal I think that'd be perfect.

I really like Rob, but he just always looks to me like an injury about to happen.  He winds up on the floor frequently, falls awkwardly...   Makes me nervous.  Maybe his body can adjust as he becomes "full grown" and ends up with more solid legs.   And this is with him playing 13 mpg over the course of only 29 games (in 2019-20).   

What value does Rob add in a package for a veteran center?
I'm not sure Timelord's the answer as the starting center.  he's looking like he can be a solid rotation player off the bench for next season but his team D needs a lot of work.  Theis similarly would be a solid addition off the bench for this team if we had a better option as a starter. 

Ideally we'd have Baynes or Horford still starting for us and then our center position would look pretty good.

TIMELORD is only 22. He's got a rediculous 7'6" wingspan and he moves well. He's shots 71% on 2 point shots, granted most of those are dunks, but he's also improved his elbow jumper and his freethrow shooting. His per 36 numbers are 11 rb 12 pts and only 4 fouls....Health is what has held him back. He needs reps.

Health is holding him back.

And Brad Stevens. Brad has to tolerate his mistakes on defense, let him play through them so that he gains more experience is will be less prone to make them.
believe me, I'm rooting for him, not against him.  He's improved over last season but his team D is noticeably weak.  if he can improve on that significantly where other teams can't automatically pull him out of the paint to get a block attempt and give up an easy pass for a layup or do a tune on him in the P&R, then great for us.  I just don't anticipate that kind of a leap with such little time between bubbles for him to work on his game.

Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2020, 10:00:04 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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Hearing that theis and williams "should be enough" next season is why I have a hard time having conversations about this team with other celtics fans.

Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2020, 12:18:32 PM »

Offline __ramonezy__

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Our team can’t really change much next year so any improvement comes from:

- Tatum and Brown growing as passers
- Robert Williams improving his lateral quickness and BBIQ
- Walker, Hayward, and Langford getting and staying healthy
- Changing our offensive system to score in the paint more

Barring a crazy trade involving Tatum, Brown, or Smart, the only aces we have up our sleeves are Rob Williams and Langford.

Agreed with a lot of what you say here. RWIII needs to improve his BBIQ or else he's virtually unplayable against a motion heavy team like Miami. His development will single handedly make us contenders.

I think we are a team that can truly benefit from addition by subtraction. RWIII needs to absorb Kanter's minutes and we need to stop this talk about getting a back up PG and simply stagger the substitution pattern to let Hayward be our backup ball handler. He needs more minutes with the ball in his hand.

Moving on from Kanter and Wanamaker with existing players will be the boost we need.

The only player I'd entertain is IT, in a off the bench flamethrower role like Lou Will

Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2020, 01:06:37 PM »

Offline footey

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I think the hardest decision is whether to put the chips down on Rob Williams or go hard after another center. If you keep Williams you need to give him reps so he can learn. I guess they can commit to 20+ mins a night for the first half of the year. Best outcome is the experiment succeeds. If not, do what you can at the deadline. I just have no idea what he’s capable of. He shows flashes and then he’s awful.

Another way to go is to see if you can package Timelord with 14 and 30 to the Hawks for pick 6. Take Okongwu as your center of the future or (if you can resign Baynes) take Haliburton or Hayes as a bench pg who can someday replace kemba.


I don't think they need to add a major upgrade at center.  If Rob Williams can stay healthy and become more consistent, a timeshare with him and Theis should be more than good enough.

I do think they need to add a third guy who can actually play on both ends when either Theis or Rob is hurt.  Theis was remarkably healthy this year but in the past was a bit injury prone.  Rob has had some trouble staying available as well.

If they could sign Baynes to a reasonable deal I think that'd be perfect.

I really like Rob, but he just always looks to me like an injury about to happen.  He winds up on the floor frequently, falls awkwardly...   Makes me nervous.  Maybe his body can adjust as he becomes "full grown" and ends up with more solid legs.   And this is with him playing 13 mpg over the course of only 29 games (in 2019-20).   

What value does Rob add in a package for a veteran center?
I'm not sure Timelord's the answer as the starting center.  he's looking like he can be a solid rotation player off the bench for next season but his team D needs a lot of work.  Theis similarly would be a solid addition off the bench for this team if we had a better option as a starter. 

Ideally we'd have Baynes or Horford still starting for us and then our center position would look pretty good.

TIMELORD is only 22. He's got a rediculous 7'6" wingspan and he moves well. He's shots 71% on 2 point shots, granted most of those are dunks, but he's also improved his elbow jumper and his freethrow shooting. His per 36 numbers are 11 rb 12 pts and only 4 fouls....Health is what has held him back. He needs reps.

Health is holding him back.

And Brad Stevens. Brad has to tolerate his mistakes on defense, let him play through them so that he gains more experience is will be less prone to make them.
believe me, I'm rooting for him, not against him.  He's improved over last season but his team D is noticeably weak.  if he can improve on that significantly where other teams can't automatically pull him out of the paint to get a block attempt and give up an easy pass for a layup or do a tune on him in the P&R, then great for us.  I just don't anticipate that kind of a leap with such little time between bubbles for him to work on his game.

I know that is the recurring theme about Rob, but it seems that Theis, who is considered the consummate systems defender, struggle just as much, if not more, defensively  as Rob during playoffs, particularly vs Raptors and Heat.  Ibaka hit as many or more wide open 3s vs Theis compared to vs Rob, and Bam did better vs Theis than vs Rob.  I just don't agree that Rob is terrible in system defense the way the media and other critics make it out.  I feel they exaggerate this too much. And I feel Brad was too quick too many times to pull Rob, and it cost our team. 

Re: Keys to Next Season
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2020, 04:17:55 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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I think the hardest decision is whether to put the chips down on Rob Williams or go hard after another center. If you keep Williams you need to give him reps so he can learn. I guess they can commit to 20+ mins a night for the first half of the year. Best outcome is the experiment succeeds. If not, do what you can at the deadline. I just have no idea what he’s capable of. He shows flashes and then he’s awful.

Another way to go is to see if you can package Timelord with 14 and 30 to the Hawks for pick 6. Take Okongwu as your center of the future or (if you can resign Baynes) take Haliburton or Hayes as a bench pg who can someday replace kemba.


I don't think they need to add a major upgrade at center.  If Rob Williams can stay healthy and become more consistent, a timeshare with him and Theis should be more than good enough.

I do think they need to add a third guy who can actually play on both ends when either Theis or Rob is hurt.  Theis was remarkably healthy this year but in the past was a bit injury prone.  Rob has had some trouble staying available as well.

If they could sign Baynes to a reasonable deal I think that'd be perfect.

I really like Rob, but he just always looks to me like an injury about to happen.  He winds up on the floor frequently, falls awkwardly...   Makes me nervous.  Maybe his body can adjust as he becomes "full grown" and ends up with more solid legs.   And this is with him playing 13 mpg over the course of only 29 games (in 2019-20).   

What value does Rob add in a package for a veteran center?
I'm not sure Timelord's the answer as the starting center.  he's looking like he can be a solid rotation player off the bench for next season but his team D needs a lot of work.  Theis similarly would be a solid addition off the bench for this team if we had a better option as a starter. 

Ideally we'd have Baynes or Horford still starting for us and then our center position would look pretty good.

TIMELORD is only 22. He's got a rediculous 7'6" wingspan and he moves well. He's shots 71% on 2 point shots, granted most of those are dunks, but he's also improved his elbow jumper and his freethrow shooting. His per 36 numbers are 11 rb 12 pts and only 4 fouls....Health is what has held him back. He needs reps.

Health is holding him back.

And Brad Stevens. Brad has to tolerate his mistakes on defense, let him play through them so that he gains more experience is will be less prone to make them.
believe me, I'm rooting for him, not against him.  He's improved over last season but his team D is noticeably weak.  if he can improve on that significantly where other teams can't automatically pull him out of the paint to get a block attempt and give up an easy pass for a layup or do a tune on him in the P&R, then great for us.  I just don't anticipate that kind of a leap with such little time between bubbles for him to work on his game.

I know that is the recurring theme about Rob, but it seems that Theis, who is considered the consummate systems defender, struggle just as much, if not more, defensively  as Rob during playoffs, particularly vs Raptors and Heat.  Ibaka hit as many or more wide open 3s vs Theis compared to vs Rob, and Bam did better vs Theis than vs Rob.  I just don't agree that Rob is terrible in system defense the way the media and other critics make it out.  I feel they exaggerate this too much. And I feel Brad was too quick too many times to pull Rob, and it cost our team.
not seeing where he's being called terrible -- just that his team D needs work, a lot of work.  He showed real improvement over last season.  if he can make as much of an improvement next season as he did this season, he might get to 'ok' level.