If we traded Brown for Butler, Where would we be right now?

[CelticsElite]

Watching Butler destroy lebron in an elimination Finals game is crazy

If we traded Brown for Butler when the opportunity came up, Where would we be right now?

Imagine the pain that 76ers fan must feel losing butler and signing Tobias Harris Long term  as a consolation prize lol

[bopna]

Watching Butler destroy lebron in an elimination Finals game is crazy


Imagine the pain that 76ers fan must feel losing butler and signing Tobias Harris Long term  as a consolation prize lol

Brown is a better shooter and still will grow into his own..im good with JB going forward..he is far from a finished product and is certainly going to be a force still in the future.

But Jimmy has been the saving grace for Miami and i certainly hope they can pull off tge imposssible.

[Atzar]

Watching Butler destroy lebron in an elimination Finals game is crazy


Imagine the pain that 76ers fan must feel losing butler and signing Tobias Harris Long term  as a consolation prize lol

IMO we would have lost Butler to Miami just like Philly did.  That dude needs a specific culture to thrive, and ours was garbage last year.  No way he would have stuck around after that season.

So we'd probably be in a similar position to the one we're currently in, but with Josh Richardson (or similar) instead of Jaylen Brown. 

[SparzWizard]

Watching Butler destroy lebron in an elimination Finals game is crazy


Imagine the pain that 76ers fan must feel losing butler and signing Tobias Harris Long term  as a consolation prize lol

IMO we would have lost Butler to Miami just like Philly did.  That dude needs a specific culture to thrive, and ours was garbage last year.  No way he would have stuck around after that season.

So we'd probably be in a similar position to the one we're currently in, but with Josh Richardson (or similar) instead of Jaylen Brown.

He would've called Kyrie and Smart fake tough guys, Horford a washed-up old man, Rozier a bum, Hayward soft and want outta that team lol!

But I would've been interested in having Butler in 2017 over Hayward. The Wolves gave up pretty little for him iirc at the time.

[mr. dee]

Watching Butler destroy lebron in an elimination Finals game is crazy


Imagine the pain that 76ers fan must feel losing butler and signing Tobias Harris Long term  as a consolation prize lol

IMO we would have lost Butler to Miami just like Philly did.  That dude needs a specific culture to thrive, and ours was garbage last year.  No way he would have stuck around after that season.

So we'd probably be in a similar position to the one we're currently in, but with Josh Richardson (or similar) instead of Jaylen Brown.

He would've called Kyrie and Smart fake tough guys, Horford a washed-up old man, Rozier a bum, Hayward soft and want outta that team lol!

But I would've been interested in having Butler in 2017 over Hayward. The Wolves gave up pretty little for him iirc at the time.

I don't know. That pick could have been used on guys like Murray, Hield, Sabonis or even Siakam (although this one was a reach back then).

[jambr380]

Brown outplayed Butler in the ECF, so we would probably have been sent home in 5 instead of 6.

The more agonizing part of this whole thing is that our wings (especially with a healthy Hayward) would absolutely be feasting on LAL right now. Don't get me wrong, Butler is a very good player, but he wasn't anywhere near as effective against us as he is against LAL. He was basically the 3rd best player for MIA in that series - maybe 4th, if you want to say Dragic was ahead of him (and there is a strong argument for that).

[pearljammer10]

Love what Butler is doing but I’m set keeping Jaylen at that point and going forward.

[BitterJim]

Well, we wouldn't have had the space to sign Kemba if that had been the case (unless he left with Kyrie and Horford - then we could have kept Baynes and signed Kemba, but I'd rather have Brown than Baynes). The similar play (Butler is better in a vacuum, but I'm not sure we'd be better with him dominating the ball and Tatum playing more of an off ball role the past few years), lower salary, and more years of control makes keeping Brown the obvious right choice.

[ScoobyDoo]

I agree we probably beat LA and that our wings would just be too much for them and it blows we couldn’t get by Miami - even with large leafs nearly every game.

But for me the most agonizing part of this whole thing is how Ainge continually screws his teams by A) Refusing to get legitimately sized big men that matter and B) by continually refusing to make any upgrades at the trade deadline when almost every other team does, including those in the Finals.

Ainge’s canned response every year “we like our group”.

He should have 200% gone and picked up a guy like Dwight Howard, Cauley Stein it Noel when they were available for nothing. Either of those guys would have probably been enough to get us into the finals - just one more legitimately sized big man who can play. We probably sweep Miami with Howard.

Instead he hit he’s his wagon to the 6’6” Grant Williams and Vincent Poirier.

I’ve said this before but if I were Tatum or Brown’s agent I would tell Ainge I’m advising my client to demand a trade unless you make commitments to gettting someone over 6’” 8 up front because my clients will never win a ring here unless you do.

[Ogaju]

I agree we probably beat LA and that our wings would just be too much for them and it blows we couldn’t get by Miami - even with large leafs nearly every game.

But for me the most agonizing part of this whole thing is how Ainge continually screws his teams by A) Refusing to get legitimately sized big men that matter and B) by continually refusing to make any upgrades at the trade deadline when almost every other team does, including those in the Finals.

Ainge’s canned response every year “we like our group”.

He should have 200% gone and picked up a guy like Dwight Howard, Cauley Stein it Noel when they were available for nothing. Either of those guys would have probably been enough to get us into the finals - just one more legitimately sized big man who can play. We probably sweep Miami with Howard.

Instead he hit he’s his wagon to the 6’6” Grant Williams and Vincent Poirier.

I’ve said this before but if I were Tatum or Brown’s agent I would tell Ainge I’m advising my client to demand a trade unless you make commitments to gettting someone over 6’” 8 up front because my clients will never win a ring here unless you do.

I made a similar comment in the Jayson Tatum thread only a bit more radical. I think I called for Tatum to hire Rich Paul and demand that CBS be fired, Ainge get better bench, amongst other things.

[LilRip]

Interesting question.

To me, last year would’ve still been a train wreck. Yeah, Kyrie wasn’t solely to blame; we had a bunch of strong personalities that weren’t meshing and we had players with heavy minutes chasing personal agendas.

However, with Kyrie/Rozier/Morris/Horford leaving, I think Jimmy Buckets could’ve stayed. He doesn’t seem to mind sharing the limelight, which means Tatum likely would’ve still ascended. Butler strikes me as a win-first, team-first guy rather than a hero ball kind of guy. Would we have had enough space to still sign Kemba? I don’t think so. So idk what type of guard help we would’ve gotten.

Regardless, Ainge still wouldn’t have gotten us help upfront so I don’t think we get past ECF. Then we’d have a thread here asking: “if we didn’t trade Brown for Butler, where would we be?”

[ScoobyDoo]

Yeah Ogaju, agreed. It's a real problem.

I like Ainge, he's probably a top 10 GM in the league, with strong arguments for top five. He does so many things so well. That said, like all of us, he's not above criticism.

My main gripes that I like to beat like a drum... 

1. Every Celtics Team in history that has won titles had legitimate big men, including those that Ainge played on and constructed. He has got to address that issue via this year's draft, free agency and trades. We need to be able to play big when required.

2. He tends to put a good starting five together and then proceeds to royally screw them by having no bench, when, if he'd make moves around the margins, he could do.  He royally screwed the Pierce, Garnett, Ray Allen teams by giving them no consistently good bench. The only year they had a good bench was 2008 and we smoked the league. After that he let Posey and Allen walk, PJ retired and he didn't replace any of them with anything meaningful. Totally screwed that teams' chances of winning another title.

Flash forward to Tatum and Brown - same story. He signs Poirier instead of Noel or Cauley Stein and runs with Grant Williams instead of finding a Dedmon level big. I like Grant Williams "a lot", but he's 6'6" on a good day. I'm not saying Noel or Stein are all stars but they've at least proven they have the ability to play in an NBA game versus a guy like Poirier.

Enough with the guards and wings - he's done a great job on that and I'd be Ok to roll forward long term with Kemba, Smart, Wanamaker, Langford, Hayward (reasonable extended contract) even Ojeleye and Tatum and Brown. I could see using one of our picks for a wing to replace Ojeleye. Perhaps at #14, but then take two bigs at 26 and 30, or take a guy like Tyler Bey at 26, use 14 and 30 on bigs...

Make a commitment to getting some young big guys in here who can make a long run next to Tatum and Brown.

I would also seriously consider giving Aaron Baynes a 2-3 year mid level deal. Bring a real enforcer back in the middle.
   

[vjcsmoke]

If we have Butler instead of Brown, we'd be in the Finals this year.  But I don't know if we would be able to beat the Lakers because we have no answer for AD.

[PhoSita]

If we had traded Brown for Butler I think Butler would still be on the Heat right now. 

The Bulls / Wolves would be a lot better though.

[Phantom255x]

Well you also have to realize that in a Butler trade, it would have cost Brown, AND either Smart/Crowder as well as a future 1st (which would have likely been a Brooklyn pick aka Tatum).

But yeah, I love Butler and have always been a fan. And he balled out in the bubble.