Author Topic: Off-season targets?  (Read 6473 times)

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Re: Off-season targets?
« Reply #135 on: October 17, 2020, 08:19:02 PM »

Online greenhead85

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Jabari Parker for the MLE.

Starting 5:     Smart, JB, JT, Jabari and Theis

2nd stringer:  Kemba, GH (on renegotiated deal, 80/4 yrs?), Timelord, Grant Wil, Langford

3rd: Big draft pick, Korver?, shooter draft pick

Re: Off-season targets?
« Reply #136 on: October 17, 2020, 08:32:54 PM »

Online gouki88

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Jabari Parker for the MLE.

Starting 5:     Smart, JB, JT, Jabari and Theis

2nd stringer:  Kemba, GH (on renegotiated deal, 80/4 yrs?), Timelord, Grant Wil, Langford

3rd: Big draft pick, Korver?, shooter draft pick
Lol, Jabari freakin Parker starting over Hayward and Smart starting over Kemba?? Yuck

Re: Off-season targets?
« Reply #137 on: October 17, 2020, 09:00:55 PM »

Online greenhead85

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Jabari Parker for the MLE.

Starting 5:     Smart, JB, JT, Jabari and Theis

2nd stringer:  Kemba, GH (on renegotiated deal, 80/4 yrs?), Timelord, Grant Wil, Langford

3rd: Big draft pick, Korver?, shooter draft pick
Lol, Jabari freakin Parker starting over Hayward and Smart starting over Kemba?? Yuck

Three young wings starting to find their rhythm and scoring. Kemba and GH tend to slow down the offense of the starting 5. Kemba and GH, as we have seen in the recent playoffs, find it hard to defend well. Points production from GH and Kemba, I think, would be manage better when they come off the bench. Parker has good motor , disruptive on both ends, rebounds far better and attacks the basket stronger than GH. He effectively helps out Tatum in the rebounding load.

Re: Off-season targets?
« Reply #138 on: October 17, 2020, 10:28:16 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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   Iím gonna choose to have fun and think we get under and are able to use the full mid level. At that point Iím like a lot of people thinking Baynes is the ideal target. There arenít many bugs Iíd deem worth that. Tristan Thompson would be another.
 If we canít get a center that can FINISH a playoff game on the floor  then Iíd love to be able to snag Justin Holiday.

Re: Off-season targets?
« Reply #139 on: October 17, 2020, 10:30:30 PM »

Online gouki88

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Jabari Parker for the MLE.

Starting 5:     Smart, JB, JT, Jabari and Theis

2nd stringer:  Kemba, GH (on renegotiated deal, 80/4 yrs?), Timelord, Grant Wil, Langford

3rd: Big draft pick, Korver?, shooter draft pick
Lol, Jabari freakin Parker starting over Hayward and Smart starting over Kemba?? Yuck

Three young wings starting to find their rhythm and scoring. Kemba and GH tend to slow down the offense of the starting 5. Kemba and GH, as we have seen in the recent playoffs, find it hard to defend well. Points production from GH and Kemba, I think, would be manage better when they come off the bench. Parker has good motor , disruptive on both ends, rebounds far better and attacks the basket stronger than GH. He effectively helps out Tatum in the rebounding load.
I'm sorry, but virtually none of this is true. Jabari Parker is not some young wing starting to find his rhythm. He's an injury-prone young wing looking for what will be his 6th team. He's not disruptive at all on defence, in fact he's a weak defender. You're conflating his mediocre ability to generate steals with actually being disruptive.

He's also really not that much better at rebounding than Hayward, despite being considerably larger. A rebound % difference of 1.9% is nothing to write home about. In fact, Hayward is every bit as good a defensive rebounder, if not arguably better, Parker just generates offensive rebounds occasionally. Not sure how that helps Tatum out at all

Re: Off-season targets?
« Reply #140 on: October 17, 2020, 11:06:28 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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What are peopleís thoughts on Christian Wood?
I believe he'd be a perfect fit in our system + a clear upgrade over Theis. Problem is, we cannot afford him in free agency. Even if Hayward opts out, I still don't think the non-taxpayer MLE would get the job done. Basically we can only acquire him in a sign and trade, which means that we'd become hard capped at the apron. To put it another way, we'd have to part ways with one of Kemba/Hayward/Smart in order to end up below the apron. Not sure whether Danny would be willing to do that.
Agreed. I thought it interesting that Ainge was interested in Wood at the trade deadline. I think heíd be a good fit and a good stretch the floor big who had decent defensive metrics last year.

Re: Off-season targets?
« Reply #141 on: October 18, 2020, 01:10:43 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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What are peopleís thoughts on Christian Wood?
I believe he'd be a perfect fit in our system + a clear upgrade over Theis. Problem is, we cannot afford him in free agency. Even if Hayward opts out, I still don't think the non-taxpayer MLE would get the job done. Basically we can only acquire him in a sign and trade, which means that we'd become hard capped at the apron. To put it another way, we'd have to part ways with one of Kemba/Hayward/Smart in order to end up below the apron. Not sure whether Danny would be willing to do that.
Has Wood even took a part of a high stake game in his career? How do you know he is a clear upgrade over theis who proved himself vs Philly and Toronto?
Let some other team overpay Wood and if he is even close to expectation trade for him if we have assets left.
There are too many examples of players who signed big contracts because advanced stats loved them just for them to become duds again. See Dedmon I can probably think of others too
It's not like he's a ball handler who is expected to make critical decisions in the clutch. We'd be using him off the ball as our 4th-5th option. Don't see why his skills won't translate to CBS's system.

  • He's an elite pick n roll finisher (1.50 PPP --> 95.4 percentile).
  • He's an elite pick n roll defender (allowed 0.64 PPP --> 92.3 percentile).
  • He can switch ball screens on the perimeter.
  • He protects the rim averaging 1.5 block per 36 minutes this season (fwiw, that's higher than Bam and Giannis).
  • He's long + super athletic.
  • He shoots the 3.
  • He puts the ball on the floor, hence he can create his own shots.

Perhaps you think that his 3P% ain't sustainable? He averaged 38.6% from 3 on 2.3 attempts per game this season. Even so, Theis averaged 33.3% this season on 1.5 attempt per game.


What are peopleís thoughts on Christian Wood?
It would be cheaper and easier to get Okongwu than to get any promising big already in the league, and he has a higher upside than most of them.
Just because Okongwu is younger than Wood, it doesn't mean that he has a higher upside as well. Here's a list of all the players in the league last season under 25 years old putting up 20+ points and 10+ rebounds per 36 minutes.



Wood is a 2-way player, whereas Okongwu is just a rim runner. He's nowhere near the player Wood is on the offensive side of the floor.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2020, 01:24:38 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Off-season targets?
« Reply #142 on: October 18, 2020, 01:20:33 AM »

Online gouki88

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What are peopleís thoughts on Christian Wood?
It would be cheaper and easier to get Okongwu than to get any promising big already in the league, and he has a higher upside than most of them.
Just because Okongwu is younger than Wood, it doesn't mean that he has a higher upside as well. Here's a list of all the players in the league last season under 25 years old putting up 20+ points and 10+ rebounds per 36 minutes.



Wood is a 2-way player, whereas Okongwu is just a rim runner. He's nowhere near the player Wood is on the offensive side of the floor.
That''s not an honest representation of it IMO. Wood is an okay defender. Not good, not bad, Okongwu projects to be an elite defender. Wood is also 25 - Okongwu is 19

Re: Off-season targets?
« Reply #143 on: October 18, 2020, 01:31:28 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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What are peopleís thoughts on Christian Wood?
It would be cheaper and easier to get Okongwu than to get any promising big already in the league, and he has a higher upside than most of them.
Just because Okongwu is younger than Wood, it doesn't mean that he has a higher upside as well. Here's a list of all the players in the league last season under 25 years old putting up 20+ points and 10+ rebounds per 36 minutes.



Wood is a 2-way player, whereas Okongwu is just a rim runner. He's nowhere near the player Wood is on the offensive side of the floor.
That''s not an honest representation of it IMO. Wood is an okay defender. Not good, not bad, Okongwu projects to be an elite defender. Wood is also 25 - Okongwu is 19
At this point, Iím not sure how many more kicks in the can the Cs have before they run out and Brown/Tatum lose patience and become disgruntled. This is the best core they will have (assuming they run it back). They need to get pieces to really contented. Drafting players and developing takes time. At best, Okongwu would take 3-4 years to develop. By that time, Tatum and Brown might be on the way out. Iím not saying Christian Wood is the guy to put them over the top but they need ready talent to plug into this system. Drafting rookies will not put them over the top at this point.

Re: Off-season targets?
« Reply #144 on: October 18, 2020, 01:52:55 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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What are peopleís thoughts on Christian Wood?
It would be cheaper and easier to get Okongwu than to get any promising big already in the league, and he has a higher upside than most of them.
Just because Okongwu is younger than Wood, it doesn't mean that he has a higher upside as well. Here's a list of all the players in the league last season under 25 years old putting up 20+ points and 10+ rebounds per 36 minutes.



Wood is a 2-way player, whereas Okongwu is just a rim runner. He's nowhere near the player Wood is on the offensive side of the floor.
That''s not an honest representation of it IMO. Wood is an okay defender. Not good, not bad, Okongwu projects to be an elite defender. Wood is also 25 - Okongwu is 19
I would argue that Wood is an above average defender to say the least. Opponents FG% drops by 2.5 when defended by Wood compared to their average FG% number.

- He protects the rim (posted the numbers above).
- He's an elite pick n roll defender (posted the numbers above).
- He can play D on the perimeter.
- He even allows 0.78 PPP in post-up plays, which ranks in the 74.1 percentile.

The advanced defensive metrics suggest that he's an above average defender as well.

RAPM: +0.45
RAPTOR: +2.6 (this is waaaay above average)
PIPM: +0.81

Don't get me wrong, he ain't as good as Okongwu projects to be on defense. My point is that Wood is a 2-way player, whereas Okongwu is just a rim runner.

Re: Off-season targets?
« Reply #145 on: October 18, 2020, 02:56:58 AM »

Online gouki88

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What are peopleís thoughts on Christian Wood?
It would be cheaper and easier to get Okongwu than to get any promising big already in the league, and he has a higher upside than most of them.
Just because Okongwu is younger than Wood, it doesn't mean that he has a higher upside as well. Here's a list of all the players in the league last season under 25 years old putting up 20+ points and 10+ rebounds per 36 minutes.



Wood is a 2-way player, whereas Okongwu is just a rim runner. He's nowhere near the player Wood is on the offensive side of the floor.
That''s not an honest representation of it IMO. Wood is an okay defender. Not good, not bad, Okongwu projects to be an elite defender. Wood is also 25 - Okongwu is 19
I would argue that Wood is an above average defender to say the least. Opponents FG% drops by 2.5 when defended by Wood compared to their average FG% number.

- He protects the rim (posted the numbers above).
- He's an elite pick n roll defender (posted the numbers above).
- He can play D on the perimeter.
- He even allows 0.78 PPP in post-up plays, which ranks in the 74.1 percentile.

The advanced defensive metrics suggest that he's an above average defender as well.

RAPM: +0.45
RAPTOR: +2.6 (this is waaaay above average)
PIPM: +0.81

Don't get me wrong, he ain't as good as Okongwu projects to be on defense. My point is that Wood is a 2-way player, whereas Okongwu is just a rim runner.
No doubt, I think Wood is probably an above average defender. I just don't think he's neither elite nor well-suited to defend the bruising 5s, and I also am skeptical over his sample size.

I would prefer Okongwu for a number of reasons. In a big man for this team I would like someone who is a great rebounder and defender, and a decent passer, in that order. Great defence can be sacrificed if they have the size to bang with the huge guys that give us trouble. I don't think Wood fits into any of those categories.

He's a great offensive player, undoubtedly. Scores easily, can shoot, and doesn't turn it over. However, his passing is pretty mediocre, he's merely a solid rebounder and a solid-to-good defender. I think his skill-set is similar to John Collins', another guy I really like but think would be redundant on this team.

Compared to guys like Vucevic (elite rebounder, scorer and passer), Gobert (all-time level defender and elite rebounder) or Valanciunas (elite rebounder and decent defender), or even youngsters like Okongwu (defence and rebounding) or Wiseman (rebounding and freakish athleticism) I just don't like the fit of Wood with this current roster.

I'm very apprehensive about a 215lbs starting 5 when we just got exposed on the inside

Re: Off-season targets?
« Reply #146 on: October 18, 2020, 03:55:52 AM »

Offline Somebody

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What are peopleís thoughts on Christian Wood?
It would be cheaper and easier to get Okongwu than to get any promising big already in the league, and he has a higher upside than most of them.
Just because Okongwu is younger than Wood, it doesn't mean that he has a higher upside as well. Here's a list of all the players in the league last season under 25 years old putting up 20+ points and 10+ rebounds per 36 minutes.



Wood is a 2-way player, whereas Okongwu is just a rim runner. He's nowhere near the player Wood is on the offensive side of the floor.
That''s not an honest representation of it IMO. Wood is an okay defender. Not good, not bad, Okongwu projects to be an elite defender. Wood is also 25 - Okongwu is 19
I would argue that Wood is an above average defender to say the least. Opponents FG% drops by 2.5 when defended by Wood compared to their average FG% number.

- He protects the rim (posted the numbers above).
- He's an elite pick n roll defender (posted the numbers above).
- He can play D on the perimeter.
- He even allows 0.78 PPP in post-up plays, which ranks in the 74.1 percentile.

The advanced defensive metrics suggest that he's an above average defender as well.

RAPM: +0.45
RAPTOR: +2.6 (this is waaaay above average)
PIPM: +0.81

Don't get me wrong, he ain't as good as Okongwu projects to be on defense. My point is that Wood is a 2-way player, whereas Okongwu is just a rim runner.
No doubt, I think Wood is probably an above average defender. I just don't think he's neither elite nor well-suited to defend the bruising 5s, and I also am skeptical over his sample size.

I would prefer Okongwu for a number of reasons. In a big man for this team I would like someone who is a great rebounder and defender, and a decent passer, in that order. Great defence can be sacrificed if they have the size to bang with the huge guys that give us trouble. I don't think Wood fits into any of those categories.

He's a great offensive player, undoubtedly. Scores easily, can shoot, and doesn't turn it over. However, his passing is pretty mediocre, he's merely a solid rebounder and a solid-to-good defender. I think his skill-set is similar to John Collins', another guy I really like but think would be redundant on this team.

Compared to guys like Vucevic (elite rebounder, scorer and passer), Gobert (all-time level defender and elite rebounder) or Valanciunas (elite rebounder and decent defender), or even youngsters like Okongwu (defence and rebounding) or Wiseman (rebounding and freakish athleticism) I just don't like the fit of Wood with this current roster.

I'm very apprehensive about a 215lbs starting 5 when we just got exposed on the inside
The DRAPM and DPIPM numbers would suggest to me that he's slightly above average defensively but probably has some weaknesses holding him back. The defensive RAPTOR numbers are interesting - maybe he's doing things captured in tracking data (although it's weird that his DRAPM numbers don't look great since RAPM uses play-by-play data, for my money I'd chalk it up to noise in RAPTOR).

Re: Off-season targets?
« Reply #147 on: October 18, 2020, 09:00:27 AM »

Online DefenseWinsChamps

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What are peopleís thoughts on Christian Wood?
It would be cheaper and easier to get Okongwu than to get any promising big already in the league, and he has a higher upside than most of them.
Just because Okongwu is younger than Wood, it doesn't mean that he has a higher upside as well. Here's a list of all the players in the league last season under 25 years old putting up 20+ points and 10+ rebounds per 36 minutes.



Wood is a 2-way player, whereas Okongwu is just a rim runner. He's nowhere near the player Wood is on the offensive side of the floor.
That''s not an honest representation of it IMO. Wood is an okay defender. Not good, not bad, Okongwu projects to be an elite defender. Wood is also 25 - Okongwu is 19
I would argue that Wood is an above average defender to say the least. Opponents FG% drops by 2.5 when defended by Wood compared to their average FG% number.

- He protects the rim (posted the numbers above).
- He's an elite pick n roll defender (posted the numbers above).
- He can play D on the perimeter.
- He even allows 0.78 PPP in post-up plays, which ranks in the 74.1 percentile.

The advanced defensive metrics suggest that he's an above average defender as well.

RAPM: +0.45
RAPTOR: +2.6 (this is waaaay above average)
PIPM: +0.81

Don't get me wrong, he ain't as good as Okongwu projects to be on defense. My point is that Wood is a 2-way player, whereas Okongwu is just a rim runner.
No doubt, I think Wood is probably an above average defender. I just don't think he's neither elite nor well-suited to defend the bruising 5s, and I also am skeptical over his sample size.

I would prefer Okongwu for a number of reasons. In a big man for this team I would like someone who is a great rebounder and defender, and a decent passer, in that order. Great defence can be sacrificed if they have the size to bang with the huge guys that give us trouble. I don't think Wood fits into any of those categories.

He's a great offensive player, undoubtedly. Scores easily, can shoot, and doesn't turn it over. However, his passing is pretty mediocre, he's merely a solid rebounder and a solid-to-good defender. I think his skill-set is similar to John Collins', another guy I really like but think would be redundant on this team.

Compared to guys like Vucevic (elite rebounder, scorer and passer), Gobert (all-time level defender and elite rebounder) or Valanciunas (elite rebounder and decent defender), or even youngsters like Okongwu (defence and rebounding) or Wiseman (rebounding and freakish athleticism) I just don't like the fit of Wood with this current roster.

I'm very apprehensive about a 215lbs starting 5 when we just got exposed on the inside
The DRAPM and DPIPM numbers would suggest to me that he's slightly above average defensively but probably has some weaknesses holding him back. The defensive RAPTOR numbers are interesting - maybe he's doing things captured in tracking data (although it's weird that his DRAPM numbers don't look great since RAPM uses play-by-play data, for my money I'd chalk it up to noise in RAPTOR).

The other issue is that now that teams have seen Wood perform at a solid level, they will be more prepared for him this season. The tape and time to study the tape will allow teams to defend him better and attack him better. Wood is a good player, but I think his effectiveness drops a bit this season.