I'm ready to move on from Kemba

[Jvalin]

A couple of trade ideas. The second one is probably a pipe dream. Feel free to post your own ideas.

Trade #1

Celtics in: #8 + future Knicks first
Knicks in: Kemba (they absorb his contract via their cap space)

Why for the C's
- Kemba doesn't share the same time window with Tatum-Brown.
- It's possible that he's facing a chronic issue with his left knee.
- I'm not a big fan of paying Kemba $37,653,300 in 2022-2023. He'll be 33 years old at the end of that season.
- Hayward's contract comes off the books in 2021. We could go after a max free agent in 2021 (Giannis, Kawhi, George, you name it).
- We'd reset the clock on the repeater tax.
- The trade would create a $34,479,100 TPE for the C's (=Kemba's contract + $100,000). We could use the exception to acquire a Kemba replacement. We could even use it to sign a free agent as long as his starting salary is less than $34,479,100. 

Obviously, we only do the trade if we have a player in mind at #8. Personally speaking, my target would be Haliburton.

Why for the Knicks
- Most scouts believe that this year's draft isn't heavy on star players.
- The Knicks are desperate to sign a star.
- Hopefully (on their part), Kemba would help them attract more stars in the future via free agency.

Fwiw, New York City is an attractive destination for many players. Kemba is from Harlem, NY. Given that he grew up a Knicks fan, he may enjoy the idea of playing for his hometown team.


Trade #2

Kemba + pick(s) + non-core player(s)* for Simmons + filler (if necessary)

* non-core players = Theis, Kanter, Langford, G-Will, Timelord, Semi, Edwards

For instance


https://tradenba.com/trades/QYhiedMUW

C's lineup after the trade:

Smart - Brown - Hayward - Tatum - Simmons

[mrceltics2013]

FINALLY SOMEONE MADE THE THREAD! I haven’t even read the post yet but I’m all aboard! We don’t need a scoring PG we need a real offensive leader/ game manager!

[Csfan1984]

I never wanted Kemba but I feel regardless it's too much of a franchise image hit to trade him year 2 unless it's for a top 10 player.

[KGs Knee]

Simmons is not a 5. Continually attempting to assert he is or can be is a bad look.

Regardless, we're not trading Kemba just one season after signing him. That's not how the NBA works. You don't do that unless you want to anger agents and give future free agents reason to look at you as an untrustworthy GM.

[Jvalin]

Simmons is not a 5. Continually attempting to assert he is or can be is a bad look.

Our best run in game 6 was with Grant Williams at Center. If Grant and Theis can play at the 5, then so can Simmons. He's 2 inches taller than Theis and 4(!) inches taller than Grant.

At the end of the day, CBS loves his small-ball lineups. Our only traditional Center in the playoffs was Kanter. He played a total of 42 minutes in 13 games against the Raps and the Heat (=3.2 minutes per game).

Regardless, we're not trading Kemba just one season after signing him. That's not how the NBA works. You don't do that unless you want to anger agents and give future free agents reason to look at you as an untrustworthy GM.

Danny traded IT to our conference rivals after his amazing season in 2016-2017. It seems that Danny would trade anybody for the right price.

[Who]

Simmons is not a 5. Continually attempting to assert he is or can be is a bad look.

Our best run in game 6 was with Grant Williams at Center. If Grant and Theis can play at the 5, then so can Simmons. He's 2 inches taller than Theis and 4(!) inches taller than Grant.

At the end of the day, CBS loves his small-ball lineups. Our only traditional Center in the playoffs was Kanter. He played a total of 42 minutes in 13 games against the Raps and the Heat (=3.2 minutes per game).

Did Ben Simmons not have a good run at center towards the end of the season? I am not certain but I vaguely recall so.

I know in years past Simmons has sucked at the center position. He was too immature in terms of accepting responsibility as the back end defender (tallest player, main shot blocker, defensive anchor) and main rebounder. Nothing to do with any physical limitations. It was mental. And it followed him from LSU through to the NBA.

But I thought there was a period late this season that Simmons finally played well at center. For the first time in his career. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I'd love to see a Simmons-Tatum pick-and-roll, but I'm pretty sure Philly fans would burn their arena to the ground if the Sixers made another trade with the Celtics.

[Who]

That Knicks trade would be amazing for New York. Not so for Boston. That pick isn't valuable enough. The TPE would be interesting.

I am open to trading Kemba because I am not wild about small weak defense score first PGs but I am not looking to get rid of him. He fit in well here. He played well while allowing Tatum and Jaylen to blossom. I thought he struggled in the bubble and that was likely down to poor health rather than ability. I thought Kemba showed he was a very good fit here earlier in the year and will be next year and hopefully for years to come.

So not enough coming back for me to contemplate giving up Kemba in that Knicks package.

-----------------------------

The Ben Simmons one is interesting to me. I don't know what to think of Simmons. Part of me loves his game (defense, passing and rebounding) and part of me hates his game (inability to shoot). The guy is a conundrum that I cannot figure out. So I can't make up my mind but it is interesting.

[Big333223]

lol

1 season where he starts the all star game and we're already trying to dump him.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I don't want to salary dump him for a pick. I would be more interested in the Ben Simmons trade. But I really would rather not trade him.

[obnoxiousmime]

Kemba already turned down the Knicks for us last offseason. There's no way he would be happy going there because the whole reason he chose Boston over NY and Charlotte is to be on a good team.

As much as I soured on Kemba as a long-term solution this playoffs watching his D get continuously picked on, I don't think the Celtics can afford to be an organization that doesn't treat its players a little better. The Clippers can deal a Blake Griffin and happily sign Kawhi and George later. The Lakers can dump their entire young core just for LeBron and Davis.

I know we've had our share of FA signings the last 5 years but you'll notice it's never the top top names. Hayward, Kemba, Horford are 2nd tier stars. They're not the MVP level guys like LeBron, Giannis, Kawhi, Davis, or Durant. We're still an organization that has to be smarter than others to get to that championship level, and even then of course it's really hard.

I think they'll run it back and try to make smaller moves to supplement the bench. With half their players still developing there should be a lot of internal improvement. However, to vault a level to where they can take on the best teams comfortably would probably require a significant PF/C upgrade and at least one or two bench guys making an unexpected leap.

Think about how big Herro was for the Heat, providing an extra shooter and unexpected offense as a rookie. If we swap Herro and Langford the series would have been closer or even a Celts victory. If you're not hitting on players in the draft you are at a disadvantage to the teams that are. There's nobody on our bench that even has a shot at scoring over 30 points, or even 20 for that matter. Butler didn't even have to score a ton for the Heat to win. Think about how critical Rondo and Perkins being drafted were. If Ainge doesn't hit big on those two picks do you think they would have been able to find free agents making 1-2 million/year that were capable of starting on a finals team? No way.

Give Kemba and Hayward (Stevens' buddy) one more shot as part of the main core of stars. If the team still can't get over the jump, nobody will blame the C's for exploring other options.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Please allow me to go full on crazy.

How about this? And I know the salaries don't match, but let's pretend that this is the core trade, and the add ons will be filled later.

To Indiana:
Gordon Hayward, Kemba Walker

To Boston:
Malcolm Brogdon, Domantas Sabonis

Who says no?

[PhoSita]

I don't think we're getting anything like a top 10 pick for Kemba.

Best case we get a few useful veteran pieces with not terrible contracts.

Tough to match salary though.

I do tend to agree that I think the team would be better if you replaced Kemba with a solid starting point guard who's a bit less of a liability on defense and at the same time added a couple pieces to the bench.

Trouble is finding another team that wants to win now, doesn't already have a high usage lead guard in place, and has pieces to match salary that the Celtics could actually use.


The problem with saying "pretend this is the core trade and add filler later" is that the Celts don't really have filler to spare.  Unless you're talking about, say, Enes Kanter.

[Jvalin]

Simmons is not a 5. Continually attempting to assert he is or can be is a bad look.

Our best run in game 6 was with Grant Williams at Center. If Grant and Theis can play at the 5, then so can Simmons. He's 2 inches taller than Theis and 4(!) inches taller than Grant.

At the end of the day, CBS loves his small-ball lineups. Our only traditional Center in the playoffs was Kanter. He played a total of 42 minutes in 13 games against the Raps and the Heat (=3.2 minutes per game).

Did Ben Simmons not have a good run at center towards the end of the season? I am not certain but I vaguely recall so.

I know in years past Simmons has sucked at the center position. He was too immature in terms of accepting responsibility as the back end defender (tallest player, main shot blocker, defensive anchor) and main rebounder. Nothing to do with any physical limitations. It was mental. And it followed him from LSU through to the NBA.

But I thought there was a period late this season that Simmons finally played well at center. For the first time in his career.

Yes, he did. Here's what Brett Brown had to say regarding Simmons at the 5 after a game against the Celtics on January 10.

“I’ve always been curious of what that could look like and we’ve seen over the past three weeks I’ve put him in a lot of screening action, like as the screener, and you can see he’s a dynamic roller. He can get lobs, he can catch pocket passers, he can find people in corners. And so, in that world, if you put shooters around him and you find somebody who can run the pick-and-roll, then let’s call him the five and it’s true and in that environment, he was.”

And here's what Simmons said after that game.

“I don’t really look at positions. If you can play, you can play. Just try to make plays every time.”

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/10/sixers-plan-to-use-ben-simmons-more-at-center-with-joel-embiid-out/

It seems that he would embrace his role at the 5. This isn't necessary the case with all star players who are asked to play out of their ''original'' position (for instance, AD).

[PhoSita]

Think about how big Herro was for the Heat, providing an extra shooter and unexpected offense as a rookie. If we swap Herro and Langford the series would have been closer or even a Celts victory. If you're not hitting on players in the draft you are at a disadvantage to the teams that are. There's nobody on our bench that even has a shot at scoring over 30 points, or even 20 for that matter. Butler didn't even have to score a ton for the Heat to win. Think about how critical Rondo and Perkins being drafted were. If Ainge doesn't hit big on those two picks do you think they would have been able to find free agents making 1-2 million/year that were capable of starting on a finals team? No way.

I agree.  I think the difference between the Celts being a perennial 2nd-3rd round playoff team and actually making the Finals with a chance to win will have to come from picks in the middle of the 1st round or later.

Ainge has had a lot of opportunities to draft guys in the 14-30 range.  Can he find somebody better than, say, Avery Bradley?  We really need Ainge to find a diamond in the rough, not just another decent defensive role player who can score 12-15 points given a starting role.

I love Grant Williams as a glue guy .  Timelord has shown the potential to be a really valuable rotation piece.  I appreciate what Ainge has found with rookie free agents like Wanamaker and Theis.  Those finds have been big.  But those guys don't make the difference between winning and losing a playoff series against a very good team.


Miami without Bam and Herro doesn't make the Finals.  The Celts need to hit on a guy like Bam to really take the next step, imo.  You can add depth around Tatum and Brown without finding another top 100 player in the draft.  But you can't really significantly upgrade the talent of the supporting cast otherwise.  The cap space just won't be there.


I guess Terry Rozier was another decent find by Ainge, it's just too bad that he turned out to be unreliable and unhappy in anything but a high usage starting role.