Author Topic: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value  (Read 923 times)

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Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« on: September 17, 2020, 03:13:28 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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I feel like Kemba has more simply because he is under contract for longer. But if they're contractual obligations were the same, I think probably Hayward.

All of the "oh Kemba is so happy and smiling in Boston" blahblah is kinda nauseating. He's 30 years old with a nice girlfriend, 30 million dollars per year to live on, and insanely well priced supporting cast who are doing most of the heavy lifting... just saying.

Discuss.
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Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2020, 03:46:52 AM »

Offline ozgod

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You could argue that if Kemba wasn’t there these playoffs they’d be box and one’ing and trapping JT to keep the ball out of his hands. He’s clearly not shooting well but the opposing coaches have decided he’s the guy they want rubbed out of the game. Jared Weiss has a good article on how Nurse and now Spoelstra are doing that. The team needs to do a better job adjusting to it by taking advantage of the attention he is getting. Unfortunately we’re not the greatest perimeter shooting team so we struggle against zones without good passers who can attack the seams of the zone.

But to answer your question Kemba has more trade value IMO.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2020, 03:50:57 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Kemba. Hayward's positive defensive value has mostly evaporated and his defensive edge isn't quite enough to make up for his deficiencies on the other end of the court compared to Kemba.
Rockets PG: Westbrook, Rivers, Clemons SG: Harden, Gordon, McLemore
SF: House, Carroll, Caboclo PF: Covington, Green, Williams
C: Tucker, Hartenstein, Bender
Warriors PG: Curry, Jackson, Bowman SG: Thompson, Lee, Poole
SF: Wiggins, Okoro, Anderson PF: Green, Paschall, MKG
C: Looney, Chriss, Smiley

Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2020, 03:52:52 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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Kemba. Hayward's positive defensive value has mostly evaporated and his defensive edge isn't quite enough to make up for his deficiencies on the other end of the court compared to Kemba.

That's interesting.. I hadn't really noticed any change in his defense. Never been a great defender though, I'll grant you that.
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2020, 04:52:27 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Imo, Kemba is a luxury, not a necessity. We already got a perfect replacement for him in Smart.

Smart has thrived in a starting role during the playoffs. He can do a million things on the court. Unfortunately, he ain't a scorer (although he has improved considerably as a shooter). It seems to me that he needs talented scorers around him in order to maximize his potential. To put it another way, he should be a regular starter.

If Smart is better suited as a starter, then Kemba is expendable. Personally speaking, I'd be open to trading Kemba. That being said, I don't expect us to trade him.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 05:24:27 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2020, 05:28:18 AM »

Offline wiley

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I don't get the nauseated part.  It's not Kemba's fault he's a great guy.  He got his reputation not with fake smiles but with treating everyone in the Hornet's entire organization with great respect, from the janitors to security.  Don't let the media representation sour you on the true Kemba, who is the anti Kyrie in the respect he gives to others.

He's struggling.  He knows it. 

Trade value question...I'm guessing Kemba has more at this point, who knows.  You know, the playoffs are when some guys get shut down.  Harden has experienced being completely shut down.  In baseball, great hitters get shut down.  It happens.  It's part of playoff intensity basketball.  But part of Kemba's slump is just his 3 point shooting at this point.

I'd rather watch Kemba evolve through this than trade him off at the first sign of struggle...regardless of how the rest of the season turns out.  Next step for Kemba is to add another speed to game...
he needs to add a slower gear for certain situations while keeping his fast gear handy.

Go Team!!


Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2020, 05:35:36 AM »

Offline Stig

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We need Kemba, or someone like Kemba, he's the player that we have advantage over other contenders, especially in the east conference. All the other great PGs are in the west. Other teams have to adjust game plans to stop Kemba, which gives other players opportunities. You can only get rid of Kemba if you have a top point forward or point centre, I don't think either Tatum or Brown can get there.

Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2020, 05:42:35 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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You can only get rid of Kemba if you have a top point forward or point centre, I don't think either Tatum or Brown can get there.
Hayward is one of the best point forwards around the league.

Tatum has come a long way as a passer. If you ask me, he has all the tools to become a terrific point forward.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 05:48:15 AM by Jvalin »

Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2020, 05:49:08 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Kemba. 4 All-Star seasons in a row, including being All-NBA in 18-19, and prior to this year had been very durable year after year.

It definitely depends on the team though. Obviously a team looking to shed salary would be more interested in the massive expiring of Hayward

Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2020, 05:56:05 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Kemba. 4 All-Star seasons in a row, including being All-NBA in 18-19, and prior to this year had been very durable year after year.

It definitely depends on the team though. Obviously a team looking to shed salary would be more interested in the massive expiring of Hayward
Why would we trade with a team looking to shed salary though? I mean, Tatum's max kicks in next offseason. If anything, we are the ones who might be looking to shed some salary.


Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2020, 05:56:46 AM »

Offline BE-Celtic

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You could argue that if Kemba wasn’t there these playoffs they’d be box and one’ing and trapping JT to keep the ball out of his hands. He’s clearly not shooting well but the opposing coaches have decided he’s the guy they want rubbed out of the game. Jared Weiss has a good article on how Nurse and now Spoelstra are doing that. The team needs to do a better job adjusting to it by taking advantage of the attention he is getting. Unfortunately we’re not the greatest perimeter shooting team so we struggle against zones without good passers who can attack the seams of the zone.

But to answer your question Kemba has more trade value IMO.

All is said. TP.

Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2020, 06:07:04 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Kemba. 4 All-Star seasons in a row, including being All-NBA in 18-19, and prior to this year had been very durable year after year.

It definitely depends on the team though. Obviously a team looking to shed salary would be more interested in the massive expiring of Hayward
Why would we trade with a team looking to shed salary though? I mean, Tatum's max kicks in next offseason. If anything, we are the ones who might be looking to shed some salary.
Don't get me wrong, I agree, I just think that a team trying to get rid of a bloated long-term contract is the only one who would find Hayward a more attractive trade prospect.

Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2020, 07:51:57 AM »

Offline celts55

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Imo, Kemba is a luxury, not a necessity. We already got a perfect replacement for him in Smart.

Smart has thrived in a starting role during the playoffs. He can do a million things on the court. Unfortunately, he ain't a scorer (although he has improved considerably as a shooter). It seems to me that he needs talented scorers around him in order to maximize his potential. To put it another way, he should be a regular starter.

If Smart is better suited as a starter, then Kemba is expendable. Personally speaking, I'd be open to trading Kemba. That being said, I don't expect us to trade him.

I have to disagree with you about Smart. Don't get me wrong, I love his hustle and am fine with him starting. As long as he understands he's there for defense and should shot when he has a GOOD shot.

While he started hot in game one, he also killed them in the middle of the first. The Celtics were playing great, moving the ball, playing with great intensity, then 4 times in a row Smart took it upon himself the try to force plays. Bad 3's and turnovers that changes the whole course of the game.
Too many times he just attacks the lane with no rhyme or reason and ends up taking an awful shot. Then after he hit a 3, the next play down was a 3 on none. 2 Celtics were wide open under the basket, and he takes another 3. Misses badly and Heat get ball back.

Again, I love a lot of what he brings to the team, but I would never want him to be running it. Unfortunately, for a guy named Smart, he doesn't play why too often.

Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2020, 08:21:03 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Kemba. Hayward's positive defensive value has mostly evaporated and his defensive edge isn't quite enough to make up for his deficiencies on the other end of the court compared to Kemba.
That's interesting.. I hadn't really noticed any change in his defense. Never been a great defender though, I'll grant you that.
He was quicker in his Utah days - it gave him the ability to cover skilled wings well and defend guards in a pinch. But yeah he was never a great defender.
Rockets PG: Westbrook, Rivers, Clemons SG: Harden, Gordon, McLemore
SF: House, Carroll, Caboclo PF: Covington, Green, Williams
C: Tucker, Hartenstein, Bender
Warriors PG: Curry, Jackson, Bowman SG: Thompson, Lee, Poole
SF: Wiggins, Okoro, Anderson PF: Green, Paschall, MKG
C: Looney, Chriss, Smiley

Re: Hayward or Kemba: more trade value
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2020, 08:37:38 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Imo, Kemba is a luxury, not a necessity. We already got a perfect replacement for him in Smart.

Smart has thrived in a starting role during the playoffs. He can do a million things on the court. Unfortunately, he ain't a scorer (although he has improved considerably as a shooter). It seems to me that he needs talented scorers around him in order to maximize his potential. To put it another way, he should be a regular starter.

If Smart is better suited as a starter, then Kemba is expendable. Personally speaking, I'd be open to trading Kemba. That being said, I don't expect us to trade him.

I have to disagree with you about Smart. Don't get me wrong, I love his hustle and am fine with him starting. As long as he understands he's there for defense and should shot when he has a GOOD shot.

While he started hot in game one, he also killed them in the middle of the first. The Celtics were playing great, moving the ball, playing with great intensity, then 4 times in a row Smart took it upon himself the try to force plays. Bad 3's and turnovers that changes the whole course of the game.
Too many times he just attacks the lane with no rhyme or reason and ends up taking an awful shot. Then after he hit a 3, the next play down was a 3 on none. 2 Celtics were wide open under the basket, and he takes another 3. Misses badly and Heat get ball back.

Again, I love a lot of what he brings to the team, but I would never want him to be running it. Unfortunately, for a guy named Smart, he doesn't play why too often.
Here's my point though: If he's taking bad shots while playing next to Tatum, Brown and Kemba, imagine how many bad shots he'd be taking when playing next to Ojeleye, Grant and Romeo.

At the end of the day, Smart is a polarizing player. His shot selection is an ongoing issue, but he's our best defender, plus he's a very good passer. Imo, he has outplayed Kemba in the playoffs.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 08:47:36 AM by Jvalin »