Simmons or Embiid who would you move?

[Vermont Green]

Who is your big? You will be undersized again having spent your money on three wings. The ultimate small ball lineup. You cannot keeo spending all your money on wings. Get some bigs in there.

PG: Smart - (draft pick) - Wanamaker
SG: Brown - Langford - Edwards
SF: Tatum - (draft pick) - Semi
PF: Simmons - Grant - (draft pick)
C: Horford - Theis - Timelord

- Dump Poirier. Worst case scenario, just cut him. We'd be saving ~12 mil in salary with this trade anyway.
- Trade Kanter for future pick(s) + cap relief (assuming he opts in).
- Cut Green. No cap hit for the C's, cause he has a non-guaranteed contract for next season.

Exactly, we will have gotten bigger at almost every position, the only exception is SG where it stays the same:

Smart bigger than Walker (+3")
Brown the same as Brown ( - )
Tatum bigger than Hayward (+1")
Simmons bigger than Tatum (+2")
Horford bigger than Theis (+1")

I am not suggesting that this trade is perfect or fixes everything, just an idea.

[gouki88]

I would look to trade Embiid for Beal or Booker (both coming along with a draft pick)


Move Hortford to C and Simmons to F (along with Harris) 


Start a back court of Richardson and Beal/Booker

phoenix wouldn't do that

Maybe, maybe not.   Would anything Phoenix did surprise you?

I can't imagine Embiid and Ayton working together on either end of the court

[shut_the_gate]

Philadelphia 76ers receive: Adebayo, Herro, D. Robinson, Iguodala, Dedmon
Miami Heat receive:           Embiid, Z. Smith
Atlanta Hawks receive:       Horford

Adebayo/Dedmon
Harris/Scott
Robinson/Richardson/Iguodala
Herro/Thybulle/Korkmaz
Simmons/Milton

[gouki88]

Philadelphia 76ers receive: Adebayo, Herro, D. Robinson, Iguodala, Dedmon
Miami Heat receive:           Embiid, Z. Smith
Atlanta Hawks receive:       Horford

Philadephia 76ers: Adebayo/Dedmon
                            Harris/Scott
                            Robinson/Iguodala
                            Richardson/Thybulle/Korkmaz
                            Simmons/Herro/Milton

Why do Miami do this? That would ruin their lineup balance IMO.

Embiid-Crowder-Butler-Dragic-Nunn is a really imbalanced lineup compared to what they have. It also kills their upcoming cap space. There's likely no interest there for them, as Embiid's two biggest weaknesses (conditioning and playmaking) are two of Bam's strongsuits.

[Androslav]

I think Embiid.

I don't think you can win it all today if a center is your best player.
He is also a gigantic man with an extensive list of lower-body injuries.
During his 6 years since he has been drafted, I rarely saw him have good conditioning.
Maybe for a month, month and a half, and then again fatigue, injury...
That is troublesome as he can't execute a game plan due to fatigue.
And more importantly, he as the leader of the team sets an example to others that you don't have to be in optimal shape to play.

The Process ended a long time ago (prematurely), he is the Process personified, I'd turn another page.

[Csfan1984]

The more I think about it you have to try and move Simmons. He is more a liability late in games than Embiid is.

If I'm the C's Id do this years three 1st and Hayward for either one. Wouldn't take Al back or Harris.

[KGs Knee]

I'm still not convinced Simmons is actually any good.  Give me Embiid 10 times out of 10.

[Vermont Green]

I think Embiid.

I don't think you can win it all today if a center is your best player.
He is also a gigantic man with an extensive list of lower-body injuries.
During his 6 years since he has been drafted, I rarely saw him have good conditioning.
Maybe for a month, month and a half, and then again fatigue, injury...
That is troublesome as he can't execute a game plan due to fatigue.
And more importantly, he as the leader of the team sets an example to others that you don't have to be in optimal shape to play.

The Process ended a long time ago (prematurely), he is the Process personified, I'd turn another page.

Milwaukee?  Giannis?  I know technically they play him as a PF but still a big.  I understand that Embiid is a different kind of big.  I could agree as far as having the opinion that you can't win if Embiid specifically is your best player, that could be true, but I don't think this is universally true.

And even if it were true, your logic is to trade your best player to somehow make your team better.  Trade your best player so that someone else is your best player.  Why not trade Simmons plus others for a player that is better than Embiid (since you feel that Embiid is their best player, better than Simmons).

[CFAN38]

I think Embiid.

I don't think you can win it all today if a center is your best player.
He is also a gigantic man with an extensive list of lower-body injuries.
During his 6 years since he has been drafted, I rarely saw him have good conditioning.
Maybe for a month, month and a half, and then again fatigue, injury...
That is troublesome as he can't execute a game plan due to fatigue.
And more importantly, he as the leader of the team sets an example to others that you don't have to be in optimal shape to play.

The Process ended a long time ago (prematurely), he is the Process personified, I'd turn another page.

Milwaukee?  Giannis?  I know technically they play him as a PF but still a big.  I understand that Embiid is a different kind of big.  I could agree as far as having the opinion that you can't win if Embiid specifically is your best player, that could be true, but I don't think this is universally true.

And even if it were true, your logic is to trade your best player to somehow make your team better.  Trade your best player so that someone else is your best player.  Why not trade Simmons plus others for a player that is better than Embiid (since you feel that Embiid is their best player, better than Simmons).

Giannis is BIG but he isn't a "BIG MAN" the majority of his offense comes from him working from the perimeter in. When at their best the Bucks get the ball to Giannis he drives to the hoop causing the D to collapse and he kicks to an open shooter. For a true big like Embiid the defense can double down and calculate their rotations much better then the chaos created by Giannis.

While I think great bigs are currently under valued I also think a team isn't winning a championship with a true center as their clear best player. If Embiid is your best player on a championship team he needs a clear 1B to his 1A aka a Curry, Lilliard, or Beal level perimeter creator.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I think Embiid.

I don't think you can win it all today if a center is your best player.
He is also a gigantic man with an extensive list of lower-body injuries.
During his 6 years since he has been drafted, I rarely saw him have good conditioning.
Maybe for a month, month and a half, and then again fatigue, injury...
That is troublesome as he can't execute a game plan due to fatigue.
And more importantly, he as the leader of the team sets an example to others that you don't have to be in optimal shape to play.

The Process ended a long time ago (prematurely), he is the Process personified, I'd turn another page.

I disagree that you can't win today with a big man as your best talent. Every generation a new narrative forms around how you can't win with a certain kind of player. It was 6'6'' wings in the 80s and 90s. It was small guards in the 00s and 10s.

I realize the game has changed, but elite talent still wins games. If Shaq played today he would still be dominate--probably more dominate. The issue is that the league has had a dearth of highly efficient big men that could break a defensive scheme inside. Giannis has that talent. Embiid does too. I don't think there is another team that has a player like that (maybe Davis but his scoring is more from all over).

In the last 20 years, there haven't been many players like that either. Dwight Howard was great, but could never break a defensive scheme. As good as Cousins was, he got in his own way a lot. Bynum? Marc Gasol? Aldridge? Horford? Bosh? Pau Gasol? Lopez?

Duncan was one. Garnett was another. My point is that Embiid is a unique player that can break a team's defensive scheme. Brown didn't know how to use him. Embiid could break the NBA the way Giannis is with a new coach and a guard who can actually make a post entry pass.

[CFAN38]

I think Embiid.

I don't think you can win it all today if a center is your best player.
He is also a gigantic man with an extensive list of lower-body injuries.
During his 6 years since he has been drafted, I rarely saw him have good conditioning.
Maybe for a month, month and a half, and then again fatigue, injury...
That is troublesome as he can't execute a game plan due to fatigue.
And more importantly, he as the leader of the team sets an example to others that you don't have to be in optimal shape to play.

The Process ended a long time ago (prematurely), he is the Process personified, I'd turn another page.

I disagree that you can't win today with a big man as your best talent. Every generation a new narrative forms around how you can't win with a certain kind of player. It was 6'6'' wings in the 80s and 90s. It was small guards in the 00s and 10s.

I realize the game has changed, but elite talent still wins games. If Shaq played today he would still be dominate--probably more dominate. The issue is that the league has had a dearth of highly efficient big men that could break a defensive scheme inside. Giannis has that talent. Embiid does too. I don't think there is another team that has a player like that (maybe Davis but his scoring is more from all over).

In the last 20 years, there haven't been many players like that either. Dwight Howard was great, but could never break a defensive scheme. As good as Cousins was, he got in his own way a lot. Bynum? Marc Gasol? Aldridge? Horford? Bosh? Pau Gasol? Lopez?

Duncan was one. Garnett was another. My point is that Embiid is a unique player that can break a team's defensive scheme. Brown didn't know how to use him. Embiid could break the NBA the way Giannis is with a new coach and a guard who can actually make a post entry pass.

You can win with an elite big as the center piece of a team but your perimeter creator is equally as important. This has been true in every era of the NBA.

The only team I can think of in recent years that has won without a clear 1B perimeter player was the Duncan/Robinson Spurs.

[wdleehi]

I just don't trust Embiid to last because he doesn't know or want to work on his conditioning.  A modern shawn Kemp.  (Not in skill set but possible body growth)

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I think Embiid.

I don't think you can win it all today if a center is your best player.
He is also a gigantic man with an extensive list of lower-body injuries.
During his 6 years since he has been drafted, I rarely saw him have good conditioning.
Maybe for a month, month and a half, and then again fatigue, injury...
That is troublesome as he can't execute a game plan due to fatigue.
And more importantly, he as the leader of the team sets an example to others that you don't have to be in optimal shape to play.

The Process ended a long time ago (prematurely), he is the Process personified, I'd turn another page.

I disagree that you can't win today with a big man as your best talent. Every generation a new narrative forms around how you can't win with a certain kind of player. It was 6'6'' wings in the 80s and 90s. It was small guards in the 00s and 10s.

I realize the game has changed, but elite talent still wins games. If Shaq played today he would still be dominate--probably more dominate. The issue is that the league has had a dearth of highly efficient big men that could break a defensive scheme inside. Giannis has that talent. Embiid does too. I don't think there is another team that has a player like that (maybe Davis but his scoring is more from all over).

In the last 20 years, there haven't been many players like that either. Dwight Howard was great, but could never break a defensive scheme. As good as Cousins was, he got in his own way a lot. Bynum? Marc Gasol? Aldridge? Horford? Bosh? Pau Gasol? Lopez?

Duncan was one. Garnett was another. My point is that Embiid is a unique player that can break a team's defensive scheme. Brown didn't know how to use him. Embiid could break the NBA the way Giannis is with a new coach and a guard who can actually make a post entry pass.

You can win with an elite big as the center piece of a team but your perimeter creator is equally as important. This has been true in every era of the NBA.

The only team I can think of in recent years that has won without a clear 1B perimeter player was the Duncan/Robinson Spurs.

Maybe, but I think you could also say the same about Lebron--like, you can win with a big wing like Lebron but you need another perimeter creator (Wade, Irving). Or you can win with a guard like Curry, but you need another elite scorer like Thompson.

We can qualify these statements. That's fine. My point was to argue that you can win with Embiid as your best player.

[Vermont Green]

I think Embiid.

I don't think you can win it all today if a center is your best player.
He is also a gigantic man with an extensive list of lower-body injuries.
During his 6 years since he has been drafted, I rarely saw him have good conditioning.
Maybe for a month, month and a half, and then again fatigue, injury...
That is troublesome as he can't execute a game plan due to fatigue.
And more importantly, he as the leader of the team sets an example to others that you don't have to be in optimal shape to play.

The Process ended a long time ago (prematurely), he is the Process personified, I'd turn another page.

I disagree that you can't win today with a big man as your best talent. Every generation a new narrative forms around how you can't win with a certain kind of player. It was 6'6'' wings in the 80s and 90s. It was small guards in the 00s and 10s.

I realize the game has changed, but elite talent still wins games. If Shaq played today he would still be dominate--probably more dominate. The issue is that the league has had a dearth of highly efficient big men that could break a defensive scheme inside. Giannis has that talent. Embiid does too. I don't think there is another team that has a player like that (maybe Davis but his scoring is more from all over).

In the last 20 years, there haven't been many players like that either. Dwight Howard was great, but could never break a defensive scheme. As good as Cousins was, he got in his own way a lot. Bynum? Marc Gasol? Aldridge? Horford? Bosh? Pau Gasol? Lopez?

Duncan was one. Garnett was another. My point is that Embiid is a unique player that can break a team's defensive scheme. Brown didn't know how to use him. Embiid could break the NBA the way Giannis is with a new coach and a guard who can actually make a post entry pass.

You can win with an elite big as the center piece of a team but your perimeter creator is equally as important. This has been true in every era of the NBA.

The only team I can think of in recent years that has won without a clear 1B perimeter player was the Duncan/Robinson Spurs.

Maybe, but I think you could also say the same about Lebron--like, you can win with a big wing like Lebron but you need another perimeter creator (Wade, Irving). Or you can win with a guard like Curry, but you need another elite scorer like Thompson.

We can qualify these statements. That's fine. My point was to argue that you can win with Embiid as your best player.

I feel that people are reacting to seeing how badly Philly played against Boston with Embiid as their best player.  But they didn't have Simmons and Harris played poorly.  I am not sure that is representative though of what Embiid could do as the best player with something more around him.  I am not disagreeing that Embiid as the best player on a team probably is not quite a title contender.  A lot would depend on how good 2-5 are.  I just don't think that means you could not win with any Center/Big as your best player.

I saw a ranking that had Embiid at the 7th best player behind Giannis, Kawhi, LeBron, Harden, Davis, and Jokic.  Seems reasonable enough.  Of the six, only Kawhi and LeBron have won titles and both of them were the best player on a bunch of teams that did not win titles.  You need the right team around any of these guys, same as with Embiid, Giannis, Davis, or Jokic.