Author Topic: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child  (Read 6656 times)

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Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #90 on: July 24, 2020, 03:55:02 PM »

Offline jambr380

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When you add your "but .... $$$$" clause you are essentially saying family isn't more important than money.

Not really. I can believe family is more important than basketball and also think that somebody making the amount of money Hayward makes should have a commitment to his team. Of course there can be exceptions (and many people believe child birth is one of them). I think I explained it as well as I could, but I believe you can be a great father without being present for the birth of your child. That alone doesn't make you any less of a family man.

The way I see it, Hayward really doesn't have anything to lose. If this were a player making far less money, he might feel the need to stick it out and earn a big contract. Gordon signed his big contract and can do what's best for Gordon at this point. It's not like he's been entirely embraced in his tenure with the Cs anyway. I can understand why he's not all-in. It's just a real bummer for the organization and the fans. We finally have a fully functioning Gordon Hayward and we can't even use him at the most critical time. If we lose and it's because Hayward isn't with us, it will be the ultimate example of a wasted max contract.

I understand my viewpoint isn't a popular one as it's super-easy to take the pro-Hayward leaving side. Please feel free to continue to be aghast and appalled that I so devilishly want to refuse Gordon the right to see his 4th child be born.

Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #91 on: July 24, 2020, 04:37:57 PM »

Online GreenFaith1819

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I'm going to say this and leave it at this.

If I could go back and "NOT" say the cutting cord comment I would.

Did not realize it would illicit a full page response like it has.

I'll leave it to God to judge whether I'm a better father or not.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 04:57:37 PM by GreenFaith1819 »
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Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #92 on: July 24, 2020, 05:45:26 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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When you add your "but .... $$$$" clause you are essentially saying family isn't more important than money.

Not really. I can believe family is more important than basketball and also think that somebody making the amount of money Hayward makes should have a commitment to his team.

And .... is that commitment to his team more or less important than his commitment to his family?

If you say "more" then you are saying that his commitment to his family is subject to being out-bid for $$.   That he sold his commitment to his family when he took the big paycheck.

At what price point does this come into effect?   Does Tremont Water's commitment to the team - purchased for the price of a Two-way deal -- outweigh his commitment to his family?   What about Enes Kanter's deal?   Or Smart's?

I am not 'aghast' here.   I'm just trying to clarify your thought process.
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Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #93 on: July 25, 2020, 03:39:24 AM »

Offline ozgod

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When you add your "but .... $$$$" clause you are essentially saying family isn't more important than money.

Not really. I can believe family is more important than basketball and also think that somebody making the amount of money Hayward makes should have a commitment to his team. Of course there can be exceptions (and many people believe child birth is one of them). I think I explained it as well as I could, but I believe you can be a great father without being present for the birth of your child. That alone doesn't make you any less of a family man.

The way I see it, Hayward really doesn't have anything to lose. If this were a player making far less money, he might feel the need to stick it out and earn a big contract. Gordon signed his big contract and can do what's best for Gordon at this point. It's not like he's been entirely embraced in his tenure with the Cs anyway. I can understand why he's not all-in. It's just a real bummer for the organization and the fans. We finally have a fully functioning Gordon Hayward and we can't even use him at the most critical time. If we lose and it's because Hayward isn't with us, it will be the ultimate example of a wasted max contract.

I understand my viewpoint isn't a popular one as it's super-easy to take the pro-Hayward leaving side. Please feel free to continue to be aghast and appalled that I so devilishly want to refuse Gordon the right to see his 4th child be born.

Jamb, we as fans look at the players on the team through the lens of how they can help the team. We don't know them personally, they're really more tools to achieve an end, that end being a championship. So we get frustrated at anything that gets in the way of pursuing the championship. They "owe" us this, [dang it]!  :police:

As a player though, I'm sure Gordon is looking at things differently, like you're only present for the birth of your first son once. I don't think he thinks that's not showing a lack of commitment as most fathers would like to be present for that, no matter how much they're getting paid, because maybe to him (as opposed to fans) he doesn't think that his commitment should be measured in whether he misses some playoff games to attend the birth of his kid, but rather how hard he had to work to even come back from a broken ankle, and to try to fit back into a team that grew on without him, and then try to be a contributor in year 3.

I can personally see both sides. I think Gordon's a big contributor to the team when he is playing, but I can understand wanting to attend the birth of a child, championship or no championship. It's not his fault what would have been a two-or-three day trip could get extended because of procedures stemming from a pandemic.
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Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #94 on: July 25, 2020, 08:05:21 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I can personally see both sides. I think Gordon's a big contributor to the team when he is playing, but I can understand wanting to attend the birth of a child, championship or no championship. It's not his fault what would have been a two-or-three day trip could get extended because of procedures stemming from a pandemic.

That's just the thing, though. There are people who will never see their parents or loved ones again because they are not allowed into nursing facilities or hospitals to be with them. This pandemic has hurt a lot of people and made things very inconvenient to a lot of people. In Gordon's situation, he isn't really suffering at all. He is going to leave at his leisure and return whenever he is allowed to return...and who can really fault him in the organization? Nobody would want to play for the Cs ever again.

Mmmmm brought up Marcus Smart in his post above which I think is kind-of ironic. Does anybody really think Smart would leave the bubble for anything? His commitment to basketball is 2nd to none. In response to Mmmmm (and as I've already mentioned before when bringing up Javonte Green), with Smart's place on the team, the amount he is being paid - I think it would be universally okay if anybody on at his level or below left for an extended period of time. While role players can be important, you don't stand a chance without your top players. And Hayward is a top player on this team.

I do think it's odd that people don't think money should play a factor. The Cs paid Hayward $128M to be a championship caliber player. Nobody in the world gets this kind of opportunity. I don't blame him for his injury, but what return on that investment are we really talking about here - some good regular season games in year 3 of the contract? If by leaving, Hayward would agree not to pick up next year's option, I would respect his decision, understand that his commitment lies in avenues beyond basketball, and wish him well; but he's going to do what's best for him...and that's just kind-of sucky for fans and the organization.

As I mentioned earlier, jokingly, but really, why not? Why can't Hayward wear a hazmat after leaving the bubble? Why can't Robyn have the baby in Orlando to make this possible? I can already feel they eye-rolls as I type this, but it seems like there are legitimate ways to make this happen without missing an important playoff series; and it seems like only one side (the organization) is making sacrifices.

Thank you for being respectful. As I mentioned, I am not trying to be heartless and I am not trying to start a fire - I apparently just happen to have a different opinion than others. My idea of family is in the day-in day-out efforts of parents, not in any singular moment (graduation, first day of school, child birth, etc). Because, while people may see these moments as defining, I don't believe whether or not you are able to attend these events is what determines your greatness as a father.

Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #95 on: July 25, 2020, 08:27:20 AM »

Online gouki88

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I can personally see both sides. I think Gordon's a big contributor to the team when he is playing, but I can understand wanting to attend the birth of a child, championship or no championship. It's not his fault what would have been a two-or-three day trip could get extended because of procedures stemming from a pandemic.

My idea of family is in the day-in day-out efforts of parents, not in any singular moment (graduation, first day of school, child birth, etc). Because, while people may see these moments as defining, I don't believe whether or not you are able to attend these events is what determines your greatness as a father.
Interesting that you bring this up, as this is probably the way in which NBA players suffer the most when it comes to raising a family. They're away for considerable periods of their children's lives, which would probably lead them to value these singular moments more than people who are able to see their kid every day.

Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #96 on: July 25, 2020, 12:23:30 PM »

Offline jambr380

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One last thing and I will be done. This whole debate could (and likely will) be moot - I am arguing on behalf of the worst case scenario. If the Cs finish off the ECSF with ease and Gordon only misses game 1 in the next series, I don't think anybody will really care. However, if the Cs are tied 2-2 in the ECF, Gordon leaves, and the Cs lose a hard fought series, then there may be more grumblings. How much time Gordon is away and the importance of that time are huge factors.

I think I am more annoyed with the definitive nature of Gordon's departure than anything else. It's like in 2018 when Kyrie (and Hayward) were out for the playoffs. Even though we were tearing it up - in the end - we all knew we never really had a chance at a title without our All-Star players. Here's to hoping Gordon happily gets to see the birth of his son; and the time he misses will be short and not crucial in the least (also, here's to hoping we make it far enough to matter  ;D).

Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #97 on: July 25, 2020, 01:17:17 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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One last thing and I will be done. This whole debate could (and likely will) be moot - I am arguing on behalf of the worst case scenario. If the Cs finish off the ECSF with ease and Gordon only misses game 1 in the next series, I don't think anybody will really care. However, if the Cs are tied 2-2 in the ECF, Gordon leaves, and the Cs lose a hard fought series, then there may be more grumblings. How much time Gordon is away and the importance of that time are huge factors.

I think I am more annoyed with the definitive nature of Gordon's departure than anything else. It's like in 2018 when Kyrie (and Hayward) were out for the playoffs. Even though we were tearing it up - in the end - we all knew we never really had a chance at a title without our All-Star players. Here's to hoping Gordon happily gets to see the birth of his son; and the time he misses will be short and not crucial in the least (also, here's to hoping we make it far enough to matter  ;D).

If he leaves the bubble, he'll need to quarantine for 4-14 days per NBA policy when he returns...so IF the Celtics somehow go from 2-2 in the ECF and win 4-2 and make it to the NBA Finals without him that'll still somehow affect the team. I'd start shaking if the Celtics start off 0-2 in the NBA Finals without him

All this procedure and analysis would be moot, ofc, if the C's get bounced in the ECF but pitchforks will still come out on who's to blame for the elimination lol.

Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #98 on: July 25, 2020, 06:51:21 PM »

Online gouki88

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One last thing and I will be done. This whole debate could (and likely will) be moot - I am arguing on behalf of the worst case scenario. If the Cs finish off the ECSF with ease and Gordon only misses game 1 in the next series, I don't think anybody will really care. However, if the Cs are tied 2-2 in the ECF, Gordon leaves, and the Cs lose a hard fought series, then there may be more grumblings. How much time Gordon is away and the importance of that time are huge factors.

I think I am more annoyed with the definitive nature of Gordon's departure than anything else. It's like in 2018 when Kyrie (and Hayward) were out for the playoffs. Even though we were tearing it up - in the end - we all knew we never really had a chance at a title without our All-Star players. Here's to hoping Gordon happily gets to see the birth of his son; and the time he misses will be short and not crucial in the least (also, here's to hoping we make it far enough to matter  ;D).

If he leaves the bubble, he'll need to quarantine for 4-14 days per NBA policy when he returns...so IF the Celtics somehow go from 2-2 in the ECF and win 4-2 and make it to the NBA Finals without him that'll still somehow affect the team. I'd start shaking if the Celtics start off 0-2 in the NBA Finals without him

All this procedure and analysis would be moot, ofc, if the C's get bounced in the ECF but pitchforks will still come out on who's to blame for the elimination lol.
Not true. Hell likely only be quarantined for 4 days, similar to Zion.



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Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #99 on: July 26, 2020, 08:55:39 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Mmmmm brought up Marcus Smart in his post above which I think is kind-of ironic. Does anybody really think Smart would leave the bubble for anything? His commitment to basketball is 2nd to none.
There is literally no way for you or I to know how Marcus Smart would prioritize the birth of his child relative to playing basketball for his team.   You don't have any basis for asserting he would act any different from Hayward in this situation.

Quote
In response to Mmmmm (and as I've already mentioned before when bringing up Javonte Green), with Smart's place on the team, the amount he is being paid - I think it would be universally okay if anybody on at his level or below left for an extended period of time. While role players can be important, you don't stand a chance without your top players. And Hayward is a top player on this team.

So you do have a price point where you feel you can buy someone's commitment to family.  And it's somewhere north of a mid-level NBA contract.
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Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #100 on: August 03, 2020, 12:30:34 PM »

Offline Greengang5

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NBA tweaking their testing procedure.  Hayward leaving maybe less of an issue. This is why it doesn't make sense to get worried 3 months in advance.  We still dont know what will happen, but needle moving in the right direction

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29588865/nba-tweaks-coronavirus-testing-policy-allow-players-return-quicker%3Fplatform%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwj0-oOYuv_qAhV9lHIEHRExB70QFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3W_KJtQxcGeAS-0GLkYcjy&ampcf=1


Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #101 on: August 03, 2020, 01:30:03 PM »

Offline jambr380

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NBA tweaking their testing procedure.  Hayward leaving maybe less of an issue. This is why it doesn't make sense to get worried 3 months in advance.  We still dont know what will happen, but needle moving in the right direction

That's great news! It was mentioned in another thread, but it would have made much more sense for Hayward not to say anything about this in advance as there were so many factors that could come into play (elimination, injury, extended lay-off due to blowing out their opponent, and now considerably less time required to isolate after leaving).


Quote
Quote
In response to Mmmmm (and as I've already mentioned before when bringing up Javonte Green), with Smart's place on the team, the amount he is being paid - I think it would be universally okay if anybody on at his level or below left for an extended period of time. While role players can be important, you don't stand a chance without your top players. And Hayward is a top player on this team.

So you do have a price point where you feel you can buy someone's commitment to family.  And it's somewhere north of a mid-level NBA contract.

Yes, I think I've been crystal clear about this. I heard that Poirier's wife will be giving birth soon. I don't even know if he is going to leave, but I have absolutely no problem with him leaving for as long as he needs to. His role on the team is almost non-existent and he is being paid very little (although more than the minimum).

This is an argument that will never be settled. Anybody who says they wouldn't take $34M to do a Zoom meeting for the birth of their 4th child is lying. And I already explained the 'commitment to family' thing. Gordon (or anybody) could be the best father in the world and still miss the birth of their child. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Anyway, it doesn't look like this is going to be a real problem anyway. This is fantastic news for everybody and hopefully we can just look forward to the Cs putting their best foot forward and competing for a title.

Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #102 on: August 03, 2020, 01:47:00 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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I have to admit, when I read the comments that Hayward should remain with the team and not be there for the birth of his child, I wonder if they have kids of their own.

I will never question Haywards commitment to this team. He suffered arguably the most gruesome basketball injury that I ever heard of. Luckily I was at my daughters softball practice and missed the beginning of that game (and I refuse to ever watch the actual injury). The fact that he came back and overcame those mental and physical hurdles, tells me all I need to know about his mental toughness and commitment to this team.

Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #103 on: August 03, 2020, 01:59:00 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I have to admit, when I read the comments that Hayward should remain with the team and not be there for the birth of his child, I wonder if they have kids of their own.

I will never question Haywards commitment to this team. He suffered arguably the most gruesome basketball injury that I ever heard of. Luckily I was at my daughters softball practice and missed the beginning of that game (and I refuse to ever watch the actual injury). The fact that he came back and overcame those mental and physical hurdles, tells me all I need to know about his mental toughness and commitment to this team.

I think its more of a pettiness towards the amount of money he makes and the perceived "underachieving" that he's done as a Celtic more than anything else.


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Re: Hayward will have to leave bubble for birth of 4th child
« Reply #104 on: August 03, 2020, 02:11:27 PM »

Offline Redz

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Since we're judging players' personal life priorities, how do we feel about Montrzell Harrell being absent for 2+ weeks for the death of his grandmother?
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