Rockets could have had MJ+Hakeem+Drexler !!!

[ederson]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/529731-what-if-jordan-hakeem-and-drexler-played-together-with-the-houston-rockets

Those three on the same roster seems like a fairy tale, but according to Olajuwon, it very well could've happened. In his book "Living the Dream", he claimed that in 1984, the Portland Trail Blazers offered the Rockets the No. 2 overall pick in the draft as well as Drexler for star center Ralph Sampson

Nobody could have guessed that Sampson would face such injuries nor predict MJ's carrier so i can't blame Rockets for going  for Sampson - Hakim tandem but that trio could have changed a lot in the 80s

[Somebody]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/529731-what-if-jordan-hakeem-and-drexler-played-together-with-the-houston-rockets

Those three on the same roster seems like a fairy tale, but according to Olajuwon, it very well could've happened. In his book "Living the Dream", he claimed that in 1984, the Portland Trail Blazers offered the Rockets the No. 2 overall pick in the draft as well as Drexler for star center Ralph Sampson

Nobody could have guessed that Sampson would face such injuries nor predict MJ's carrier so i can't blame Rockets for going  for Sampson - Hakim tandem but that trio could have changed a lot in the 80s

To be fair I think they should've taken that trade even back then. I'll admit that I didn't watch rookie Sampson, but from my impression of him in the 86 finals + impact indicators (eg. team defence/offence/MOV with him on the squad with context since there are zero plus-minus and WOWY numbers on him), he didn't look like the Godzilla people were making him out to be in college (read a biography of Jordan and read some snippets regarding how highly Sampson was rated in college). Obviously Clyde was a role player in his rookie year who only showed flashes of his potential, but getting another talented wing in Jordan (Houston were picking Jordan if they got the second pick https://www.basketballnetwork.net/nba-draft-1984-best-draft-class-in-nba-history/) who's shown both tantalising potential and coachability in college is an amazing return for a guy who your first round pick this season can "replace" (in the sense that both were centres before they played together).

Obviously drafts and trades are never clear cut in the heat of the moment, but I think Houston was a bit too mesmerised by the possibility of trotting out a twin towers lineup even though Hakeem and Sampson fit well together.

[Moranis]

I don't know that they would have taken Jordan.  I mean one of the reasons the Blazers passed on MJ was because they had Drexler who they really liked.  Of course with Hakeem maybe you don't take Bowie either. 

But that is always difficult.  Sampson as a rookie went for 21/11 and looked like he was going to live up to his potential. 

[Somebody]

I don't know that they would have taken Jordan.  I mean one of the reasons the Blazers passed on MJ was because they had Drexler who they really liked.  Of course with Hakeem maybe you don't take Bowie either. 

But that is always difficult.  Sampson as a rookie went for 21/11 and looked like he was going to live up to his potential.

To be fair that Blazers FO wasn't the smartest, I think I read somewhere that the Bulls considered Jordan as a 1-3 hybrid when he was drafted (and he did log time at SF and PG in his early years), Jordan and Drexler would've fit well with each other.

[Moranis]

I don't know that they would have taken Jordan.  I mean one of the reasons the Blazers passed on MJ was because they had Drexler who they really liked.  Of course with Hakeem maybe you don't take Bowie either. 

But that is always difficult.  Sampson as a rookie went for 21/11 and looked like he was going to live up to his potential.

To be fair that Blazers FO wasn't the smartest, I think I read somewhere that the Bulls considered Jordan as a 1-3 hybrid when he was drafted (and he did log time at SF and PG in his early years), Jordan and Drexler would've fit well with each other.

In hindsight sure, but who knows how either would have developed playing together on the same team.  That is a lot of shots that disappear to someone else who is best at your natural position.  I mean if Sampson never gets hurt, who knows what Hakeem would have ended up looking like.  Maybe he doesn't become the MVP he became with Sampson stunting his growth more. 

[Donoghus]

League was different back then.  It was about big men, size, frontcourts.

In hindsight, it looks bad but, at the time, you can see why both HOU declined it and why POR was pushing for it.  Filip Bondy wrote a good book about that draft years ago.

[Somebody]

I don't know that they would have taken Jordan.  I mean one of the reasons the Blazers passed on MJ was because they had Drexler who they really liked.  Of course with Hakeem maybe you don't take Bowie either. 

But that is always difficult.  Sampson as a rookie went for 21/11 and looked like he was going to live up to his potential.

To be fair that Blazers FO wasn't the smartest, I think I read somewhere that the Bulls considered Jordan as a 1-3 hybrid when he was drafted (and he did log time at SF and PG in his early years), Jordan and Drexler would've fit well with each other.

In hindsight sure, but who knows how either would have developed playing together on the same team.  That is a lot of shots that disappear to someone else who is best at your natural position.  I mean if Sampson never gets hurt, who knows what Hakeem would have ended up looking like.  Maybe he doesn't become the MVP he became with Sampson stunting his growth more.

Oh absolutely, I never assumed that Jordan and Drexler would become the players they are today in my hypothetical. But getting two wings who have relatively versatile skillsets to play together isn't the worst thing in the world, especially when both of them weren't actually that ball dominant (their ToT was pretty low, especially for Jordan relative to their offensive load). I was just noting that the Rockets, even in 1984 should've probably taken the deal judging how all three players were viewed at the time.

[Somebody]

League was different back then.  It was about big men, size, frontcourts.

In hindsight, it looks bad but, at the time, you can see why both HOU declined it and why POR was pushing for it.  Filip Bondy wrote a good book about that draft years ago.

Yeah it's not black and white, I understand why Houston declined the offer. But I do feel that there's a compelling argument (even in that era) for Houston to accept the offer though, and imo it's stronger than the argument against it.

[Moranis]

I don't know that they would have taken Jordan.  I mean one of the reasons the Blazers passed on MJ was because they had Drexler who they really liked.  Of course with Hakeem maybe you don't take Bowie either. 

But that is always difficult.  Sampson as a rookie went for 21/11 and looked like he was going to live up to his potential.

To be fair that Blazers FO wasn't the smartest, I think I read somewhere that the Bulls considered Jordan as a 1-3 hybrid when he was drafted (and he did log time at SF and PG in his early years), Jordan and Drexler would've fit well with each other.

In hindsight sure, but who knows how either would have developed playing together on the same team.  That is a lot of shots that disappear to someone else who is best at your natural position.  I mean if Sampson never gets hurt, who knows what Hakeem would have ended up looking like.  Maybe he doesn't become the MVP he became with Sampson stunting his growth more.

Oh absolutely, I never assumed that Jordan and Drexler would become the players they are today in my hypothetical. But getting two wings who have relatively versatile skillsets to play together isn't the worst thing in the world, especially when both of them weren't actually that ball dominant (their ToT was pretty low, especially for Jordan relative to their offensive load). I was just noting that the Rockets, even in 1984 should've probably taken the deal judging how all three players were viewed at the time.

In 1984 Sampson was viewed as a monster and clearly the best player of the group.  He was coming off a rookie season when he went for 21/11 after an epic college career.  Drexler showed some flashes his rookie year, but was a back-up playing less than half the game.  Jordan was clearly thought of as well, but was far from a surething, which is why he went 3rd in the draft and not 1.  For example, here is an article with a lot of rumored deals involving the 3rd pick for Jordan (including for players like Jack Sikma and Terry Cummings).  He was not considered an all time great prospect.  http://ballislife.com/terry-cummings-jordan-trade/  (notice the picture of the actual sports page at the time). 

I think you are clearly looking at this through the lens of hindsight.  It was not crazy at all for the Rockets to believe that a Sampson/Olajuwon twin towers lineup would destroy the league and lead to multiple titles.  I mean in just 2 years together they reached the NBA Finals losing to Boston in 6 (after beating the Lakers in 5 in the WCF).  The next season Sampson got hurt and was never the same.  If Sampson doesn't get hurt, the Rockets could have been a dynasty.  Sampson was that good and had the potential to go down as a top 5 center all time (at least in the same tier as Hakeem and Shaq behind Wilt, Kareem, and Bill). 

[bdm860]

As ridiculous as it sounds to have turned that trade down now, the trade probably sounded ridiculous in the opposite direction back then.

Now I'm under the impression Sampson was one of the most hyped prospects of his time, 3x College Player of the Year, would have been #1 pick the year before too (over James Worthy and Dominique Wilkins), All-Star his rookie year (was more common at that time though), first rookie since Kareem (in '70) to get 100% of the ROY votes (next two times that happened were '90 and '11, though that may speak more to the quality of his draft class...), etc.


At the time for Houston, it probably felt like trading Zion Williamson for Romeo Langford and the #2 pick in this draft.

[Moranis]

And I forgot just how good that draft was.  I mean everyone knows about Hakeem and Jordan, but Barkley and Stockton were also in it making it basically 4 players that would end up in the top 5 of their position all time (at least reasonable arguments).  It also had 4 time all star and DPOY Alvin Robertson and other all stars in Otis Thorpe and Kevin Willis, plus 3 other guys with at least 15 year careers in Sam Perkins, Michael Cage, and Jerome Kersey.  The talent at the top though is incredible.

[Somebody]

In 1984 Sampson was viewed as a monster and clearly the best player of the group.  He was coming off a rookie season when he went for 21/11 after an epic college career.  Drexler showed some flashes his rookie year, but was a back-up playing less than half the game.  Jordan was clearly thought of as well, but was far from a sure thing, which is why he went 3rd in the draft and not 1.  For example, here is an article with a lot of rumored deals involving the 3rd pick for Jordan (including for players like Jack Sikma and Terry Cummings).  He was not considered an all time great prospect.  http://ballislife.com/terry-cummings-jordan-trade/  (notice the picture of the actual sports page at the time).

I think you are clearly looking at this through the lens of hindsight.  It was not crazy at all for the Rockets to believe that a Sampson/Olajuwon twin towers lineup would destroy the league and lead to multiple titles.  I mean in just 2 years together they reached the NBA Finals losing to Boston in 6 (after beating the Lakers in 5 in the WCF).  The next season Sampson got hurt and was never the same.  If Sampson doesn't get hurt, the Rockets could have been a dynasty.  Sampson was that good and had the potential to go down as a top 5 center all time (at least in the same tier as Hakeem and Shaq behind Wilt, Kareem, and Bill).

To be honest he would've likely went #2 if any team not named the Blazers had the pick, he was viewed as a guy with perennial All-Star or even All-NBA potential. Besides San Diego offering Cummings for Jordan, Dallas offered 24 year old All-Star Mark Aguirre for Jordan (it was turned down immediately by the Bulls), while Philadelphia offered the fifth pick that became Charles Barkley + All-Star Andrew Toney to acquire Jordan (source: http://www.chicagonow.com/medium-rare/2016/10/23-things-you-might-not-know-about-michael-jordan-and-the-1984-nba-draft/). Sure he wasn't viewed in the same light that Hakeem was, but he was viewed very highly around the league and was considered as a special prospect judging from what teams offered the Bulls to acquire his services.

This isn't looking at it in hindsight, getting a guard/wing prospect who teams were willing to give up All-Stars for (in Philly's case an All-Star and another lottery pick in a stacked draft class!) plus another wing who has shown flashes of star potential is a really good return for a guy who you'd have some overlap with the guy you're going to select this draft (obviously Hakeem and Sampson played well together, but Hakeem was clearly the better player who would've benefited more by playing with skilled perimeter players instead of another big like Sampson - a big reason why Houston collapsed after Sampson's injury was that their backcourt was horrendous, not because Sampson was godzilla in the NBA). The Rockets would've been fine either way, but getting two guys who Hakeem can play off of in an inside-out system was the ideal move for them imo.

Side note: I simply disagree with the notion that Sampson could've been in the class of Wilt (much less Hakeem, Shaq, Kareem and Bill), the team stats don't show that he moved the needle and his individual stats (even adjusted) weren't amazing compared to the guys you've mentioned either.

[GetLucky]

In 1984 Sampson was viewed as a monster and clearly the best player of the group.  He was coming off a rookie season when he went for 21/11 after an epic college career.  Drexler showed some flashes his rookie year, but was a back-up playing less than half the game.  Jordan was clearly thought of as well, but was far from a sure thing, which is why he went 3rd in the draft and not 1.  For example, here is an article with a lot of rumored deals involving the 3rd pick for Jordan (including for players like Jack Sikma and Terry Cummings).  He was not considered an all time great prospect.  http://ballislife.com/terry-cummings-jordan-trade/  (notice the picture of the actual sports page at the time).

I think you are clearly looking at this through the lens of hindsight.  It was not crazy at all for the Rockets to believe that a Sampson/Olajuwon twin towers lineup would destroy the league and lead to multiple titles.  I mean in just 2 years together they reached the NBA Finals losing to Boston in 6 (after beating the Lakers in 5 in the WCF).  The next season Sampson got hurt and was never the same.  If Sampson doesn't get hurt, the Rockets could have been a dynasty.  Sampson was that good and had the potential to go down as a top 5 center all time (at least in the same tier as Hakeem and Shaq behind Wilt, Kareem, and Bill).

To be honest he would've likely went #2 if any team not named the Blazers had the pick, he was viewed as a guy with perennial All-Star or even All-NBA potential. Besides San Diego offering Cummings for Jordan, Dallas offered 24 year old All-Star Mark Aguirre for Jordan (it was turned down immediately by the Bulls), while Philadelphia offered the fifth pick that became Charles Barkley + All-Star Andrew Toney to acquire Jordan (source: http://www.chicagonow.com/medium-rare/2016/10/23-things-you-might-not-know-about-michael-jordan-and-the-1984-nba-draft/). Sure he wasn't viewed in the same light that Hakeem was, but he was viewed very highly around the league and was considered as a special prospect judging from what teams offered the Bulls to acquire his services.

This isn't looking at it in hindsight, getting a guard/wing prospect who teams were willing to give up All-Stars for (in Philly's case an All-Star and another lottery pick in a stacked draft class!) plus another wing who has shown flashes of star potential is a really good return for a guy who you'd have some overlap with the guy you're going to select this draft (obviously Hakeem and Sampson played well together, but Hakeem was clearly the better player who would've benefited more by playing with skilled perimeter players instead of another big like Sampson - a big reason why Houston collapsed after Sampson's injury was that their backcourt was horrendous, not because Sampson was godzilla in the NBA). The Rockets would've been fine either way, but getting two guys who Hakeem can play off of in an inside-out system was the ideal move for them imo.

Side note: I simply disagree with the notion that Sampson could've been in the class of Wilt (much less Hakeem, Shaq, Kareem and Bill), the team stats don't show that he moved the needle and his individual stats (even adjusted) weren't amazing compared to the guys you've mentioned either.

The closest modern-day comparison I can think of is trying to trade Rookie year Jaylen Brown and The #1 pick in the 2017 Draft for Karl-Anthony Towns. Drexler was coming off a 7.7/2.3/1.9 rookie season, while Sampson, as mentioned, was a 21.0/11.1/2.0 RoY, All Star(!) Jordan was coming off 19.6/5.3/2.1 with 3-year career averages of 17.7/5.0/1.8 at UNC.

That offseason, KAT was coming off 25.1/12.3/2.7 (with an 18/10 rookie year), Jaylen was coming off 6.6/2.8/0.8, and Tatum was coming off a 16.8/7.3/2.1 season with Duke.

Like, would we have been fine trading Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown for KAT in 2017? I think we would have been thrilled.

[Somebody]

The closest modern-day comparison I can think of is trying to trade Rookie year Jaylen Brown and The #1 pick in the 2017 Draft for Karl-Anthony Towns. Drexler was coming off a 7.7/2.3/1.9 rookie season, while Sampson, as mentioned, was a 21.0/11.1/2.0 RoY, All Star(!) Jordan was coming off 19.6/5.3/2.1 with 3-year career averages of 17.7/5.0/1.8 at UNC.

That offseason, KAT was coming off 25.1/12.3/2.7 (with an 18/10 rookie year), Jaylen was coming off 6.6/2.8/0.8, and Tatum was coming off a 16.8/7.3/2.1 season with Duke.

Like, would we have been fine trading Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown for KAT in 2017? I think we would have been thrilled.

I don't think this comparison accurately captures the value of Jordan in 1984. Tatum in college was nowhere close to Jordan in the 1984 draft, a number of teams were aware that Dean Smith's system suppressed his box stats. Jordan out of college would be something similar to Tatum after the 2019 NBA season: a highly talented wing projected to be on the cusp of stardom. Would you have traded 2019 Tatum and 2011 Paul George (a year older though) for 2017 Towns, especially when 2019 Tatum can fetch you packages like:
 
1. Prime Rip Hamilton + a pick that can be used to select Zion Williamson (albeit a bit older at the age of 21)
2. 2008 Carmelo
3. Late 00s David West but he's 22 years old
When you hold the pick that can be used to select 2018 Joel Embiid without the injury and durability issues at 22 years of age?

I believe 2 and 3 would make people pause a bit while 1 would have most people saying yes. Again I understand why the Rockets refused to accept Portland's offer, but that deal was incredible value even in 1984.

[Somebody]

And I forgot just how good that draft was.  I mean everyone knows about Hakeem and Jordan, but Barkley and Stockton were also in it making it basically 4 players that would end up in the top 5 of their position all time (at least reasonable arguments).  It also had 4 time all star and DPOY Alvin Robertson and other all stars in Otis Thorpe and Kevin Willis, plus 3 other guys with at least 15 year careers in Sam Perkins, Michael Cage, and Jerome Kersey.  The talent at the top though is incredible.

It also had international legend Oscar Schmidt.