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Author Topic: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look: Conference Finals winners announced!!  (Read 16941 times)

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Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #120 on: March 27, 2020, 10:40:44 PM »

Offline action781

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Would appreciate to hear people's feedback on my team the Utah Jazz.

Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - Peja Stojakovic - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo

I have a floor-spreading, more athletic PF that I'm considering drafting next who could possibly start and move Horford to the bench.  What do people think about that idea in theory? 

I do love Horford's elbows-wide-screens freeing up Reggie and Peja off-ball with the starting unit, but that could move to my offensive attack when Shaq rests.

I am a fan of your team but I am still trying to wrap my head around your team's offense. Not because it is bad or anything like that just because it is so different to what we have seen Shaq with in the past.

Shaq had so much success with a dominant perimeter player who can create for himself and others - in Orlando, with the Lakers and in Miami. You went away from that and created a different recipe (which is always fun to see).

I also keep thinking of Shaq in the Triangle offense. I thought that was the best offense he played in because it was so post-orientated. It ensured his touches better than the offenses he played with in Orlando or Miami where his touches were less dependable. Everything flowed through him in the Triangle. So every time I look at your team, my first thought is "jeez, I am not sure Peja is right for the Triangle - he should be running off screens" .... even though there is no Triangle here.  :laugh:

--------------------------------

I love that you have Kidd as your PG because he can dominate games without scoring. I am not worried about his outside shooting because I believe he would've developed his outside shot quicker if he was playing in today's league. So I am comfortable assuming his 2010 levels of shooting during his prime years in New Jersey. A dependable spot up three point shooter rather than an off the dribble three point shooter.

I also love that Kidd will make sure the ball works through Shaquille O'Neal which many other (scoring) PGs would not do as well as Kidd would.

------------------------------

Peja and Reggie are cool shooters but they need screens to free themselves up. I am concerned that none of your 4 other starters can create their own shot off the dribble effectively. They are all dependent on someone helping them get open.

That is the main issue I see. Shaq is the only guy who creates his own offense. Everyone else needs help to get good shots.

------------------------------

I am not sure I buy the Horford criticism - criticism about his quickness. He was plenty quick and athletic enough during his prime in Atlanta. He is quicker than probably half the starting PFs in this league.

Dirk. K-Malone. Pau. C-Webb. Brand. Towns if he starts at PF. Aldridge. Horford is quicker than all of those guys. And he is one of the better PFs defensively on the perimeter.

I like Horford's glue guy potential as a defensive PF. Shaq always liked (needed?) that next to him. Horford's rebounding (especially in boxing out other physical PFs) is also an asset.

I am not as sure on offense. I think Shaq relegates Horford to the periphery of things. I am not sure Horford will get the touches in the spots he wants to make much of an impact but he'll be okay in the shadows. He won't hurt you. He is too skilled, too smart. Passing, shooting, some handles. So that is fine.

------------

Mmm ...

I am not sure there is a good enough shot creating wing available but there are still PGs available. Kidd is big enough to slide over to SGs defensively and play in a two guard backcourt if that was your desire.

Or even a 6th man type guard so you have that option if you need more shot creation on the perimeter. Keep the starting lineup as is and have a game-changing option off the bench. Yeah, I like that as an option. That is what I would try to do rather than switch-up the starting unit.

I already PMed this to Who, but wow this was a such a thoughtful and considerate post on my team.  This is what makes these games great.  Again, I'm really appreciative of this, Who.

Now to answer Who's questions about my offense, I'd like to give my thoughts on a main offensive set I've been envisioning this team running.  Not the only set, but one I like a lot.  In the diagram below, I have:

1-Kidd
2-Reggie
3-Peja
4-Horford
5-Shaq



Action 1:  Reggie runs off a triple off-ball screen, the last one being Shaq's big body.  If he gets freed up, Kidd hits him for the open shot.  If Shaq's man cheats to help at all, Shaq slips for the oop from Kidd.

Action 2:  Right after Reggie runs off Peja, Horford pivots and sets one of his wide-elbowed screens for Peja to come off looking for a jumper.  Same thing.  Horford's man cheats, it's a pass to him who is now in position to play 2-1.

Maybe the passes are made and instead of a direct shot, Peja or Reggie just attack the close out, in which case I think good things will happen.

Action 3:  If neither of the passes are made leading to a direct action, then Kidd (dribbling a bit more to the side) and Reggie are making a triangle with Shaq for a post up opportunity.  When the ball gets into him, lots of actions can happen from here. 
-I think the main action is for Horford to set a back screen for Kidd.  Horford is then spotting up at the top of the key after.  If Kidd and Horford's men are the two most likely to offer help, then I want them screening to open one of them up for a look they are each efficient with.
-Alternatively, Kidd could be the screen setter, going to free up Peja or setting a flare screen for Reggie.
-There's a good chance Shaq just muscles his way in for a high % fga.  But if Kidd sets the flare screen for Reggie, then Shaq could always kick it back out to Kidd and follow that pass with an immediate ball screen for a Kidd-Shaq p&r with some great floor spacing (Horford would have found his way to the perimeter, pushing Peja to the corner).
-Of course there are hundreds or thousands of ways this set could play out as the shot clock ticks, but those are some actions I can envision really well and just love what I see in my head.

---

Some notes on this:
1) Whoever is guarding Reggie is going to get very tired of running off that triple screen, then likely more screens as the offense will often continue past those first 8 seconds (unless I'm scoring that easily!).  I can also swap Peja and Reggie's spots, which I'd be likely to do in the case where I want to tire out Peja's defender -- an elite offensive SF like LeBron or Durant -- or abuse a lazier one.
2) This won't be my only action of course.  It's just one that particularly excited me with lots of options that I can't get out of my head.  We'll operate lots of straight post ups of Shaq with plenty of floor spacing.  We'll run some Horns double p&r with Shaq diving and Horford spotting up.  We'll let Horford work his hand-offs to Peja and/or Reggie.  Kidd will get out in transition at times.  I think there are lots of highly efficient options to work with here.

---

Regarding Rondo:

The positives:  I think he's perfectly suited to take over and execute this same offense nearly as well as Kidd does.

The negatives:  This doesn't allow me to play Rondo and Kidd together, which is certainly something you want to do with your 6th man.  He also can't run "the same offense" when Shaq and the other starters are sitting.  They are unique players that I won't be able to replicate on my bench.  Rondo also offers no real change of pace/style, which I value highly in bench players.

I think the negatives outweigh the positives here.  I'll probably look into seeing how I can address this.  I could trade Rondo or I think Rondo could possibly slide in as starting PG in this offense if I were to trade Kidd.  That might be the easier way to build value.  If I can't trade either of them, I don't think this problem is that terrible of one.  Rondo just has a limit on how many minutes he can play (32-16 split I imagine right now w/ no overlap) and I have to acquire some other good bench players that can absorb more of a role.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 11:29:45 PM by action781 »
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #121 on: March 28, 2020, 12:42:11 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Earlier in the thread, action781 compared my team to a super juiced up 2011 Chicago Bulls team. After sleeping on it, I think it's definitely partially similar, but also partially similar the pre-Durant Golden State team.

Curry proved to work really well with a big-man who can pass from the high-post. Noah is a better version on offence of the guy Curry worked so well with in that regard. I also love Noah's fit on defence. He's not the big tank that some of the centers in this league are, but he's one of the best, if not the single best center at perimeter defence, which should be a huge boon.

Brand isn't too similar to Draymond, but I think he's something of a blend of him and the Bulls PF at the time. He's got elite rim-protection abilities thanks to his length and athleticism (better rim-protector than Green, worse defensive versatility and quarterbacking), good passing (which he highlighted in his '05-'06 playoff run - double-team him at your peril), all alongside good interior scoring and mid-range shooting, like the Bulls PF of the time.

Grant Hill is the wild-card difference. He's a good defender, rather than the elite defender Deng was, but he's also miles better on offence. Playmaking like a point guard, interior scoring, drawing fouls, the mid-range, athleticism, he's deadly. I think his ability to play a point-forward role in certain instances allows Curry and Redd to cause some serious issues off of mean screens set by Brand and Noah.

Redd is similar to Klay, but I think Redd can create for himself better. He was really quite adept at drawing fouls, averaging just a tick over 7FTA per game in the season I've chosen, and shooting 88% on them. He's pretty obviously miles better than the Bulls SG of that season, who I had to google (he played for the C's!).

Then MVP Curry is, well, MVP Curry. I'm going to choose his 30PPG season because he was simply the most game-breaking offensive threat I've seen in the 21st century. His defence was underrated, and with the backing of a DPOY in Noah and an elite athletic rim-protector in Brand I think he'll be just fine.

Deron Williams as a 6th man is a huge luxury for me. I'll be choosing his first All-Star year because I think it was his best, especially with how he lifted his game in the playoffs. He also gives me a different look off the bench.

I aim to add a strong PnR big-man to my bench to pair with D-Will, but overall after 6 rounds I'm super happy with my squad.

There, that's enough of a self pump-up from me ;D
LA Clippers:
PG: Stephen Curry / Deron Williams / Penny Hardaway
SG: Michael Redd / Doug Christie / Leandro Barbosa
SF: Grant Hill / Hedo Turkoglu
PF: Elton Brand / Lamar Odom / Josh Smith
C: Joakim Noah / Andrew Bynum / David Lee

Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #122 on: March 28, 2020, 01:44:28 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I don't buy that Miller was really dependent on screens the way Peja was: a tracking study showed that his attacks were evenly divided into screen and non-screen scoring attempts (source: https://backpicks.com/2018/01/18/backpicks-goat-29-reggie-miller/ - footnote 1 of the article). His off ball movement was so good that he didn't always need screens to get himself open, and he had some on ball moves (eg. a running floater, a rip through move, a pullup) that allowed him to attack with the ball. He was a nuclear, grade-A level scorer in his prime who ravaged elite defences because his combination of robust off ball movement and arsenal of crafty on ball moves was so hard to guard - he was miles better than Peja as a scorer (if anything Action should trade Peja for a better offensive creator at SF).
2020 Celticsstrong Historical Draft - Toronto Raptors:
PG: Kyle Lowry, Kemba Walker, Patrick Beverley
SG: Vince Carter, Donovan Mitchell, Malcolm Brogdon
SF: Khris Middleton, Luol Deng, Danilo Gallinari
PF: Kevin Garnett, Antawn Jamison
C: David Robinson, Vlade Divac, Shawn Bradley

Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #123 on: March 28, 2020, 07:57:18 AM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Miami Heat so far:

Chris Paul (PG), Brandon Roy (SG), Jimmy Butler (SG/SF), Andrei Kirilenko (SF/PF), Kevin Love (PF), Dwight Howard (C).

I'm happy that I got to improve my team with Kirilenko and Love in the 5th and 6th round (I was actually eyeing on Love as soon as I drafted Howard, just gambled a bit on how far I thought he would fall). So I'm planning to start Love and Howard together and Paul is my primary playmaker. And I think that I need Roy for his 3-point-shooting over Butler at SG.

My question is who should I start as SF? What starting line-up looks better to you?

(A) Paul/Roy/Butler/Love/Howard or (B) Paul/Roy/Kirilenko/Love/Howard?

In (A) I have a very balanced offense, where everybody is able to make plays (besides Howard) which provides lots of ways to breakdown opposing defenses. At the same time my defense is pretty good I think.

With (B) I have elite defense players (CP3, AK47, Superman) to cover any player. On the other hand I lose the versatility of Jimmy Butler in the starting line-up, who despite his locker room issues has proven to be able to coexist along other stars on the court.


Historical draft 2020, Miami Heat:

PG: Chris Paul, Gilbert Arenas, George Hill
SG: Jimmy Butler, Brandon Roy
SF: Scottie Pippen, Rashard Lewis, Josh Howard
PF: Kevin Love, Andrei Kirilenko, Boris Diaw
C: Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Nikola Vucevic

Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #124 on: March 28, 2020, 08:49:31 AM »

Offline gouki88

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Miami Heat so far:

Chris Paul (PG), Brandon Roy (SG), Jimmy Butler (SG/SF), Andrei Kirilenko (SF/PF), Kevin Love (PF), Dwight Howard (C).

I'm happy that I got to improve my team with Kirilenko and Love in the 5th and 6th round (I was actually eyeing on Love as soon as I drafted Howard, just gambled a bit on how far I thought he would fall). So I'm planning to start Love and Howard together and Paul is my primary playmaker. And I think that I need Roy for his 3-point-shooting over Butler at SG.

My question is who should I start as SF? What starting line-up looks better to you?

(A) Paul/Roy/Butler/Love/Howard or (B) Paul/Roy/Kirilenko/Love/Howard?

In (A) I have a very balanced offense, where everybody is able to make plays (besides Howard) which provides lots of ways to breakdown opposing defenses. At the same time my defense is pretty good I think.

With (B) I have elite defense players (CP3, AK47, Superman) to cover any player. On the other hand I lose the versatility of Jimmy Butler in the starting line-up, who despite his locker room issues has proven to be able to coexist along other stars on the court.
If you’re using Miami Jimmy Butler, I think he’d be a great weapon off the bench. Let him play the point guard role on offence that he plays in Miami, and surround him with shooters like they have (just better players than their guys). Kirilenko is also a superior 3 point shooter than Butler, and I think is better suited to the lower usage role on offence alongside high-usage guards and two big who both  demand lots of inside-outside attention. He also covers for Love’s defensive weakness better.

But, my answer could change depending on who you take in the next two rounds. Getting Love and my guy AK47 were great pickups
LA Clippers:
PG: Stephen Curry / Deron Williams / Penny Hardaway
SG: Michael Redd / Doug Christie / Leandro Barbosa
SF: Grant Hill / Hedo Turkoglu
PF: Elton Brand / Lamar Odom / Josh Smith
C: Joakim Noah / Andrew Bynum / David Lee

Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #125 on: March 28, 2020, 09:32:07 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I added Victor Oladipo at SG (17-18) and Andre Iguodala (probably going with his Finals MP year but this could change).

Lineup so far:

C - Joel Embiid
PF - Dirk Nowitzki
SF - Gordon Hayward / Andre Iguodala
SG- Victor Oladipo / Andre Iguodala
PG - Tony Parker

The additions of Victor and Andre bring elite level defense to my wings and perimeter.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRIyil9jteU

Thoughts?
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Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #126 on: March 28, 2020, 09:49:43 AM »

Offline Who

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Miami Heat so far:

Chris Paul (PG), Brandon Roy (SG), Jimmy Butler (SG/SF), Andrei Kirilenko (SF/PF), Kevin Love (PF), Dwight Howard (C).

I'm happy that I got to improve my team with Kirilenko and Love in the 5th and 6th round (I was actually eyeing on Love as soon as I drafted Howard, just gambled a bit on how far I thought he would fall). So I'm planning to start Love and Howard together and Paul is my primary playmaker. And I think that I need Roy for his 3-point-shooting over Butler at SG.

My question is who should I start as SF? What starting line-up looks better to you?

(A) Paul/Roy/Butler/Love/Howard or (B) Paul/Roy/Kirilenko/Love/Howard?

In (A) I have a very balanced offense, where everybody is able to make plays (besides Howard) which provides lots of ways to breakdown opposing defenses. At the same time my defense is pretty good I think.

With (B) I have elite defense players (CP3, AK47, Superman) to cover any player. On the other hand I lose the versatility of Jimmy Butler in the starting line-up, who despite his locker room issues has proven to be able to coexist along other stars on the court.

I would be thinking about bringing both Jimmy Butler and AK-47 off the bench.

G: C-Paul
G: B-Roy
F:
F: K-Love
C: Dwight

I have long preferred AK-47 as a small ball PF than a big SF. That was when he had his All-Star season (at PF). He has more of an advantage there (on both ends of the floor). He was a terrific free safety sort of team defender at PF. He could scramble all over the places creating turnovers (steals, deflections, blocking shots [when he was blocking 3+ shots a game]). His rebounding was okay.

His offense was better too because he had a quickness advantage over PFs that he did not have at SF. Also his ball-handling & passing created advantages for him too. His jump-shot was dodgy for a PF and a liability at SF. Without that quickness advantage at SF, he struggled to be productive offensively. On defense, AK-47 was good man to man and very good as a team defender but he lacked the lateral quickness to be a lockdown defender on wings.

On this team, I believe floor spacing is key because of both Dwight Howard (paint only big man) and Chris Paul (ball dominant PG who needs space to operate). So I don't see AK-47 as a fit as a SF. I think you need a shooter there. He could play some PF though. I like Love's shooting as a starting PF so I'd bring AK-47 off the bench.

As for Jimmy Butler, there is only one basketball and Chris Paul will monopolize it. So I'd only start one of Jimmy Butler or Brandon Roy and I would choose Roy over Butler because Roy is a better jump-shooter so more floor spacing & Roy plays a similar high PnR style as CP3 and Dwight (more so than Jimmy).

So I'd then rotate CP3 / Roy / Jimmy to try and keep two of them on the floor at all times. Having two perimeter creators of that quality is a nice asset to have.

I'd aim for a starting SF who is comfortable spending a lot of time off the ball and spotting up from 3. Both (1) to help facilitate the offense - magnify the qualities of CP3 & Dwight (2) and because you have 4 guys [CP3, Roy, Love, Dwight] who can already shoulder a lot on offense.

Of players already drafted, I am thinking of someone similar to Peja or Middleton. That type of starting SF.
Boston Celtics

C: Marc Gasol, Nene, Jaren Jackson Jr
F: Pau Gasol, Rasheed Wallace
F: Kevin Durant, Danny Granger, R-Jefferson
G: Allan Houston, Jason Richardson, Sprewell
G: Steve Nash, John Stockton, Goran Dragic

Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #127 on: March 28, 2020, 09:53:33 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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My question is who should I start as SF? What starting line-up looks better to you?

(A) Paul/Roy/Butler/Love/Howard or (B) Paul/Roy/Kirilenko/Love/Howard?


You might also want to consider (C) Paul - Butler - Kirilienko - Love - Howard with Roy as the super 6th man scorer.

Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #128 on: March 28, 2020, 10:00:45 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I added Victor Oladipo at SG (17-18) and Andre Iguodala (probably going with his Finals MP year but this could change).

Lineup so far:

C - Joel Embiid
PF - Dirk Nowitzki
SF - Gordon Hayward / Andre Iguodala
SG- Victor Oladipo / Andre Iguodala
PG - Tony Parker

The additions of Victor and Andre bring elite level defense to my wings and perimeter.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRIyil9jteU

Thoughts?

This is a very well-constructed team.  I don’t know if it’s ceiling is as high as a couple of squads, but it doesn’t have any glaring weaknesses.
Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat. CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012.

Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #129 on: March 28, 2020, 10:02:53 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I added Victor Oladipo at SG (17-18) and Andre Iguodala (probably going with his Finals MP year but this could change).

Lineup so far:

C - Joel Embiid
PF - Dirk Nowitzki
SF - Gordon Hayward / Andre Iguodala
SG- Victor Oladipo / Andre Iguodala
PG - Tony Parker

The additions of Victor and Andre bring elite level defense to my wings and perimeter.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRIyil9jteU

Thoughts?

This is a very well-constructed team.  I don’t know if it’s ceiling is as high as a couple of squads, but it doesn’t have any glaring weaknesses.

Thanks.

So I've done (so far) the best I could do given my draft position.
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Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #130 on: March 28, 2020, 10:19:42 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I added Victor Oladipo at SG (17-18) and Andre Iguodala (probably going with his Finals MP year but this could change).

Lineup so far:

C - Joel Embiid
PF - Dirk Nowitzki
SF - Gordon Hayward / Andre Iguodala
SG- Victor Oladipo / Andre Iguodala
PG - Tony Parker

The additions of Victor and Andre bring elite level defense to my wings and perimeter.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRIyil9jteU

Thoughts?
Love the Hayward - Dirk duo at your forward spots. So much ball-skill right there. Parker and Embiid are great players too. Lots of playoff experience on this squad.

Oladipo took me by surprise, but mainly because I just forgot about him because of his recent injuries. That one year in Indy he had was really strong on both ends. Good, efficient scoring and great guard defence. Really fun running partner for Parker.

I think a mobile defensive big-man would really help, but there's one who I think will fall into the later rounds that you could have for cheap, so not a pressing concern
LA Clippers:
PG: Stephen Curry / Deron Williams / Penny Hardaway
SG: Michael Redd / Doug Christie / Leandro Barbosa
SF: Grant Hill / Hedo Turkoglu
PF: Elton Brand / Lamar Odom / Josh Smith
C: Joakim Noah / Andrew Bynum / David Lee

Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #131 on: March 28, 2020, 10:42:51 AM »

Offline Who

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Oladipo and Brandon Roy were two players I was curious about in this format. This Historical League.

Brandon Roy dominated Portland's offense. Everything revolved around him. He was the centerpiece. My question: What does he look when he is not the centerpiece? How well does he do with less time on the ball to work with?

Oladipo was a player I was already curious about this season in real life (IRL) this season. The Pacers had played well without him. One of their guards and one of their bigs were having breakout years. He was coming back from injury to a team that had much more talent on it than the one he had his breakout year on (where Oladipo could whatever he wanted whenever he wanted however much he wanted because there was so little shot-creation on the team).

So I was curious how well does Oladipo adjust his game when he comes back to fit in around these IRL new (breakout) pieces Indiana has? (edit: which he did not get to do because the season ended so quickly after returning from a bad injury)

Because before all this - the breakout year where he could do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted on offense - he was more peripheral. He played well in Orlando and OKC but was not a star. Orlando was a mess and Oladipo was young. OKC he had Westbrook to share with.

-----------------------------------

Issue for lots of guys in this league. I just mentioned these two players because (1) they are being talked about in the last couple of posts (2) they both have had brief peaks (Oladipo only 1 1/2 seasons, Roy 3 years) due to injuries and Oladipo being a current day player. Because of that and lack of top end talent around them, they did not get the opportunities to show how they would meld next to other top players. So it is interesting to think about.

Edit: And because they were two guys who spent a lot of time on the ball creating rather than off the ball.

---------------------------

Personally, I am thinking that Oladipo looks closer to OKC Oladipo than Indiana Oladipo. And that Roy more resembles rookie season Roy before they built the team around him.

---------------------------

I hope that doesn't come across the wrong way. Every player is going to see a drop off offensively when sharing the ball with so many other talented players. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was only 5-10 guys who average 20ppg in this Historical League for this reason.

Durant. Shaq. LeBron. Kobe. Curry. Kawhi.

Maybe T-Mac. Then Harden vs Wade situation.


Edit: I am just trying to imagine what players will look like in smaller roles (offensively). Some are easy to see. Some are more difficult.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 10:50:06 AM by Who »
Boston Celtics

C: Marc Gasol, Nene, Jaren Jackson Jr
F: Pau Gasol, Rasheed Wallace
F: Kevin Durant, Danny Granger, R-Jefferson
G: Allan Houston, Jason Richardson, Sprewell
G: Steve Nash, John Stockton, Goran Dragic

Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #132 on: March 28, 2020, 10:51:53 AM »

Offline gouki88

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TP to Who for consistently in-depth breakdowns. Love it, great stuff
LA Clippers:
PG: Stephen Curry / Deron Williams / Penny Hardaway
SG: Michael Redd / Doug Christie / Leandro Barbosa
SF: Grant Hill / Hedo Turkoglu
PF: Elton Brand / Lamar Odom / Josh Smith
C: Joakim Noah / Andrew Bynum / David Lee

Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #133 on: March 28, 2020, 11:29:02 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Oladipo and Brandon Roy were two players I was curious about in this format. This Historical League.

Brandon Roy dominated Portland's offense. Everything revolved around him. He was the centerpiece. My question: What does he look when he is not the centerpiece? How well does he do with less time on the ball to work with?

Oladipo was a player I was already curious about this season in real life (IRL) this season. The Pacers had played well without him. One of their guards and one of their bigs were having breakout years. He was coming back from injury to a team that had much more talent on it than the one he had his breakout year on (where Oladipo could whatever he wanted whenever he wanted however much he wanted because there was so little shot-creation on the team).

So I was curious how well does Oladipo adjust his game when he comes back to fit in around these IRL new (breakout) pieces Indiana has? (edit: which he did not get to do because the season ended so quickly after returning from a bad injury)

Because before all this - the breakout year where he could do whatever he wanted whenever he wanted on offense - he was more peripheral. He played well in Orlando and OKC but was not a star. Orlando was a mess and Oladipo was young. OKC he had Westbrook to share with.

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Issue for lots of guys in this league. I just mentioned these two players because (1) they are being talked about in the last couple of posts (2) they both have had brief peaks (Oladipo only 1 1/2 seasons, Roy 3 years) due to injuries and Oladipo being a current day player. Because of that and lack of top end talent around them, they did not get the opportunities to show how they would meld next to other top players. So it is interesting to think about.

Edit: And because they were two guys who spent a lot of time on the ball creating rather than off the ball.

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Personally, I am thinking that Oladipo looks closer to OKC Oladipo than Indiana Oladipo. And that Roy more resembles rookie season Roy before they built the team around him.

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I hope that doesn't come across the wrong way. Every player is going to see a drop off offensively when sharing the ball with so many other talented players. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was only 5-10 guys who average 20ppg in this Historical League for this reason.

Durant. Shaq. LeBron. Kobe. Curry. Kawhi.

Maybe T-Mac. Then Harden vs Wade situation.


Edit: I am just trying to imagine what players will look like in smaller roles (offensively). Some are easy to see. Some are more difficult.

Thanks for commentary, Who.

The main reason I picked Oladipo was that he could score AND defend - defend at a high level and for stretches of a game.

For my team I'm not looking for him to be a top option on offense - even though with our team's unselfish character this WOULD, I believe - give him the opportunity to go off in the event he got hot.

But defensively? Yeah Victor could (and would) bring it the entire game and gum stuff up for opposing guards.

Victor would - I strongly believe - with the current team around him - take a step back offensively if needed and STILL be a 1st team defensive threat and not mope about it.

Also - while I respect your commentary I have a hard time believing that Dirk Nowitzki would NOT average AT LEAST 20 PPG.

Dirk Nowitzki was a true Unicorn offensively. Even when I did a head to head comparison of him vs KG he still averaged over 20 PPG - and KG - IMO - is the best defender in this draft.
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Re: 2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look
« Reply #134 on: March 28, 2020, 11:31:04 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I added Victor Oladipo at SG (17-18) and Andre Iguodala (probably going with his Finals MP year but this could change).

Lineup so far:

C - Joel Embiid
PF - Dirk Nowitzki
SF - Gordon Hayward / Andre Iguodala
SG- Victor Oladipo / Andre Iguodala
PG - Tony Parker

The additions of Victor and Andre bring elite level defense to my wings and perimeter.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRIyil9jteU

Thoughts?
Love the Hayward - Dirk duo at your forward spots. So much ball-skill right there. Parker and Embiid are great players too. Lots of playoff experience on this squad.

Oladipo took me by surprise, but mainly because I just forgot about him because of his recent injuries. That one year in Indy he had was really strong on both ends. Good, efficient scoring and great guard defence. Really fun running partner for Parker.

I think a mobile defensive big-man would really help, but there's one who I think will fall into the later rounds that you could have for cheap, so not a pressing concern

Thanks. I have my eyes on quite a few defensive bigs (with other skills as well). I believe they'll be had.

My key in this game (unlike perhaps previous games) was to get players that - no matter how great they were at one thing - were also decent at another.
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