2020 Historic Draft: How’s My Team Look: Conference Finals winners announced!!

[gouki88]

At least the Celtics are the #1 seed! Let's go C's! Banner #18 here we come!

Honest question: How is it possible that the Mavs are the 2nd best Western Conference team in the overall standings, but the 4th best team in the Western standings?

I mean, shouldn't those 2 be identical?

The league rankings can get wonky due to higher and lower extremes. I believe Dallas had one league 1st place vote that pushed them higher in the league rankings but in the conference rankings that got smoothed down some.

Fair enough. I haven't read all the rules to be honest. My bad.

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Btw, I believe I owe an apology to gouki88.

I was under the impression that all teams automatically qualify for the playoffs and we just vote for which teams make it to the conference finals. I buried the Clips in my ballot based on the following dialogue I had with gouki prior to the draft:

How about if a player* had a phenomenal regular season, but was a ghost of his former self during the post season due to injury? Does he still take full credit for his phenomenal regular season?

What do you guys think about this?

*(I was referring to Grant Hill)

It really all comes down to what individuals find important. Given that the winner of this game is determined by voting, it’s completely subjective.

I personally would have to take a guy getting injured in the playoffs into account, as in my little fantasy land these teams will end up playing a playoff series of sorts, and whoever I think would be the champion is the winner.

Grant Hill had a phenomenal regular season in 1999-2000, but he was a ghost of himself in the playoffs due to the infamous ankle injury. Had I known that we are voting for the regular season, I would have seen things from a different perspective. I asked Nick if I could change my vote (regarding only the Clips), but it was against the rules. Again, my bad. Sorry gouki.

Hah, it’s all good. From briefly looking over the rankings it seems my team was the only Western one to receive votes as the #1 team and as the #7 team. Polarising without even knowing it.

Surprised at how lowly my team was ranked given it’s based on regular season performance at first, but that’s just me

[Donoghus]

I feel like way in the past, maybe it was Redz who proposed, and we actually utilized a modified snake draft order for some drafts we did to try & help mitigate the "superstar" factor. 

Obviously, with some drafts, I think it's unnecessary, while in others it's benefical.

We did that in CB Drafts because the talent level drop off was so bad and we had 30 GMs. But in these Historical Drafts, the talent drop off is much less severe and we have only 12-16 GMs, so I never saw the need to do anything more than a regular snake draft.

Yeah, I'm not sold that it would've been needed here (and could've swung too far the other way) but did find Rody's post to be a bit eye popping. Draft slot certainly made a difference.  I knew that the moment I drew #14. 

[Somebody]

I don’t think it is controversial to say that your analysis of the early 2000s players is based primarily on statistics. I don’t mean that disrespectfully, but it is just a fact: stats do not tell full stories. For instants, for the 2050 historic draft, what will stats heads make of 2019 Kyrie Irving?  In a lot of ways, he looks like he was a dominant player. However, he tanked our season.

I think it is, you're still stuck thinking that mainly using statistical analysis on players would result in wonky conclusions such as 2019 Kyrie Irving was dominant, which a simple look at game tape, searching for scouting reports/opinions during that period of time to analyse how his stats (box and non-box) were formed that season would refute it.

I think that anybody over 40 in this draft spent a ton of time watching the same handful of teams: Bulls, Knicks, Pacers, Heat, Jazz, Sonics.  I think that having seen those teams and players play dozens and dozens of games, it gives us a different perspective. And, as an aside, it doesn’t just extend to basketball. I was reading an article the other day about the anniversary of Kurt Cobain‘s death, written by a millennial.  As much as he wanted to, and as much of the music as he listens to, he can’t fully understand what Nirvana meant at the time, just like I can’t fully grasp Bob Dylan or Buddy Holly. I can appreciate them, and I can study them, but I can never feel them in the way that people of that era did.

And I've spent time reading the opinions of people who've spent that sort of time watching those teams. They simply do not agree with you. And feeling is irrelevant in this thought experiment, the key point in this exercise is player analysis. What did they do well? How would those strengths create value in different team situations and matchups? What were their weaknesses? How would those weaknesses limit them from providing value in certain situations? Feeling has nothing to do with these opinions, if anything they cloud them. But yes it makes sense, it's just irrelevant in this exercise.

And Mourning was no more of a black hole than post-Duncan Robinson.

So much for talking about using the eye test to analyse players , most people who lived through that era disagree with you. Seems like you're the one fixated on statistics without thinking about where they come from .

[Who]

It was lots of fun playing this game.

I do have an observation and that is that the 5 teams that got to pick last in the draft (first round),

10. Houston Rockets (freshinthehouse)
11. Indiana Pacers (GreenFaith1819)
12. Oklahoma City Thunder (Yoki_IsTheName)
13. Miami Heat (RodyTur10)
14. Brooklyn Nets (Donoghus)

also finished in the bottom 5:

10. Brooklyn Nets (Donoghus)
11. Indiana Pacers (GreenFaith1819)
12. Miami Heat (RodyTur10)
13. Oklahoma City Thunder (Yoki_IsTheName)
14. Houston Rockets (freshinthehouse)

So it's fair to say that there was a strong correlation between the draft lottery and the strength of the teams.
There was a group of around 7-9 superstars and without them it's hard to almost impossible to make up by better drafting later on.

The biggest jumpers were Boston and Milwaukee, but they got a superstar (#7 Durant and 8 Antetokounmpo) so can't say they started with a real disadvantage.

The East has jumped +17 in favor of the West -17.

Yeah, I was noticing that too early on in the draft. My best teams after 3 rounds were all the teams that picked first.

I thought the difference of the top 4 picks to next 7 picks to final 3 picks of the draft was similar IRL (in real life) to a team going from an MVP caliber player to a top ten caliber player to an All-Star (top 25) caliber player. It is a big difference out of the gate to make up.

I do think we should do more to even things out for the bottom teams. I liked the double snake draft in the 30 team CB drafts. I am not sure what the right balance is ... but I do we could find a way to do better somehow for teams that pick late in the 1st round.

[GreenFaith1819]

All I'm saying is that if I "ever" get my hands on Larry Legend or Magic in one of these things I'm going to cry with happiness, lol.

Have never drafted that high in these things, yet.

There are less than a handful of players in the NBA that if you get your hands on them it makes building a roster SO MUCH easier...those two (and maybe a couple of others) just makes your roster POP....

The amazing thing with Luka Doncic is that he is FAST approaching that level...I'd say give him a couple more years.

[nickagneta]

The teams in the playoffs chose 3rd, 4th, 7th and 8th out of 14 teams. The player chosen 1st overall, was traded, basically, for the guy chosen 6th, and neither made the playoffs.

I think a regular snake worked fine. It comes down to making smart picks and smart trades and yes, getting one of those difference making players. But even getting those difference making players doesn't mean success. LeBron, KG, Steph, Kawhi, and Kobe all stayed home and they were selected 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th and 9th.

[Who]

Idea = if we are having another one of these drafts soon how about we reverse the draft order for the next one. So that the people who picked last get to go first in this one.

It will presumably be most of the same people with a few small additions or subtractions. So it could be possible to do. If there were many changes to GMs it would be more difficult.

(a) reverse draft order
(b) reverse order by where teams finished in regular season standings

[Roy H.]

Idea = if we are having another one of these drafts soon how about we reverse the draft order for the next one. So that the people who picked last get to go first in this one.

It will presumably be most of the same people with a few small additions or subtractions. So it could be possible to do. If there were many changes to GMs it would be more difficult.

(a) reverse draft order
(b) reverse order by where teams finished in regular season standings

It helps solve one problem, but creates another:  the middle teams still get stuck in the middle.

What about doing a lottery, but making the GMs granted the top five picks from this year ineligible for a top five pick next year

[Who]

Idea = if we are having another one of these drafts soon how about we reverse the draft order for the next one. So that the people who picked last get to go first in this one.

It will presumably be most of the same people with a few small additions or subtractions. So it could be possible to do. If there were many changes to GMs it would be more difficult.

(a) reverse draft order
(b) reverse order by where teams finished in regular season standings

It helps solve one problem, but creates another:  the middle teams still get stuck in the middle.

What about doing a lottery, but making the GMs granted the top five picks from this year ineligible for a top five pick next year

Yeah, that works.

[GreenFaith1819]

To be honest - while I'd love a top pick I'd rather have a LARGER field to chose from....

Please open the next draft on up to the 50s....and with that, perhaps allow most players chosen then to have their games TRANSLATE to today's NBA...

I know a handful of superstars still may not translate well but I think the majority of them could make the jump.

I think Roy even made the suggestion of no more than THREE players per era - or something like that. I could go with this as well.

[Donoghus]

To be honest - while I'd love a top pick I'd rather have a LARGER field to chose from....

Please open the next draft on up to the 50s....and with that, perhaps allow most players chosen then to have their games TRANSLATE to today's NBA...

I know a handful of superstars still may not translate well but I think the majority of them could make the jump.

I think Roy even made the suggestion of no more than THREE players per era - or something like that. I could go with this as well.

I do like the idea of a draft with cap on the number of players you can use from each particular era.   Could lead to some really fun discussion.

[gouki88]

To be honest - while I'd love a top pick I'd rather have a LARGER field to chose from....

Please open the next draft on up to the 50s....and with that, perhaps allow most players chosen then to have their games TRANSLATE to today's NBA...

I know a handful of superstars still may not translate well but I think the majority of them could make the jump.

I think Roy even made the suggestion of no more than THREE players per era - or something like that. I could go with this as well.

I do like the idea of a draft with cap on the number of players you can use from each particular era.   Could lead to some really fun discussion.

It would also lead to some hardcore strategy - I love it!

[Jvalin]

Idea = if we are having another one of these drafts soon how about we reverse the draft order for the next one. So that the people who picked last get to go first in this one.

It will presumably be most of the same people with a few small additions or subtractions. So it could be possible to do. If there were many changes to GMs it would be more difficult.

(a) reverse draft order
(b) reverse order by where teams finished in regular season standings

Perfectly fine with me (I had the #1 pick).

Really enjoyed the draft! Would love to participate in a second one!

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Not a fan of having to pick players from the 50s/60s to be honest. I bet none of us has watched actual games from that era. How about a draft based exclusively on the 2020 season? It seems likely that there will be no NBA champ this season. Why not vote for our own champ?

[Somebody]

Idea = if we are having another one of these drafts soon how about we reverse the draft order for the next one. So that the people who picked last get to go first in this one.

It will presumably be most of the same people with a few small additions or subtractions. So it could be possible to do. If there were many changes to GMs it would be more difficult.

(a) reverse draft order
(b) reverse order by where teams finished in regular season standings

Perfectly fine with me (I had the #1 pick).

Really enjoyed the draft! Would love to participate in a second one!

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Not a fan of having to pick players from the 50s/60s to be honest. I bet none of us has watched actual games from that era. How about a draft based exclusively on the 2020 season? It seems likely that there will be no NBA champ this season. Why not vote for our own champ?

We almost have no footage of the 50s lol, and we only have a portion of 60s recordings.

[gouki88]

Idea = if we are having another one of these drafts soon how about we reverse the draft order for the next one. So that the people who picked last get to go first in this one.

It will presumably be most of the same people with a few small additions or subtractions. So it could be possible to do. If there were many changes to GMs it would be more difficult.

(a) reverse draft order
(b) reverse order by where teams finished in regular season standings

Perfectly fine with me (I had the #1 pick).

Really enjoyed the draft! Would love to participate in a second one!

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Not a fan of having to pick players from the 50s/60s to be honest. I bet none of us has watched actual games from that era. How about a draft based exclusively on the 2020 season? It seems likely that there will be no NBA champ this season. Why not vote for our own champ?

We almost have no footage of the 50s lol, and we only have a portion of 60s recordings.

Yeah, don’t think anyone seriously suggested nor wants us to do something involving the 50s. Know next to nothing about the period, and would feel silly pretending I do.