2020 Historical Draft Thread: Draft over. Playoffs coming soon!

[Roy H.]

Is OKC going small with Paul George at PF?

A Jrue & Russ starting backcourt?

Seems like a waste of that incredible backup backcourt of Isaiah Thomas and Bradley Beal if they are going to drop one of those guys from the rotation. Or maybe drop Jrue Holiday. Or maybe drop Paul George and use him as a backup SF/PF.

My first instinct is start Cliff Robinson at PF and then you have Shareef Abdur-Rahim as the backup PF.

I don't know where you fix Westbrook in.

I was leaning towards OKC as my #1 team in the West before this trade. Very interested to hear how they will make this work.

Here's how we are trying to go.

Westbrook / Holiday / Thomas
George / Beal / Holiday
Pierce / Prince
Robinson / Abdur-Rahim
B. Wallace / J.O'neal

The backup PG/SG rotation will be purely situational. If we need more scoring, we bring in IT4. If we need to lock things down, we bring Jrue Holiday.

Well, you know my opinion. I think your current big rotation might be the weakest one in our league, while you have a ton of depth at guard.  I would explore options to trade one of the Pauls to balance the roster.

Cliff Robinson is a great glue guy. The perfect 3+D PF. Defends SFs, PFs, even small-ball Centers. With Westbrook running the point and the 2 Pauls next to him, there is more than enough fire power in the starting lineup. Cliff+Wallace are useful low usage players.

What I would do is explore the market for an IT4 trade. No point having him as a 3rd stringer at the end of the bench, much less given that the second unit has 3 talented offensive players: Beal, Abdur Rahim, O'neal. But then again, I was never a fan of IT4. Not even when he was averaging close to 30 points in Boston.

I’ve made this points in past draft, but I think that one dimensional or low usage players are useless in a starting lineup in these games.  Realistically, teams need five players who can put the ball in the bucket at a high-level.

Sure, in the actual NBA you can use a specialist in your starting lineup.  In a league where teams start five multi-dimensional players, I don’t think having three great scorers is enough.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Is OKC going small with Paul George at PF?

A Jrue & Russ starting backcourt?

Seems like a waste of that incredible backup backcourt of Isaiah Thomas and Bradley Beal if they are going to drop one of those guys from the rotation. Or maybe drop Jrue Holiday. Or maybe drop Paul George and use him as a backup SF/PF.

My first instinct is start Cliff Robinson at PF and then you have Shareef Abdur-Rahim as the backup PF.

I don't know where you fix Westbrook in.

I was leaning towards OKC as my #1 team in the West before this trade. Very interested to hear how they will make this work.

Here's how we are trying to go.

Westbrook / Holiday / Thomas
George / Beal / Holiday
Pierce / Prince
Robinson / Abdur-Rahim
B. Wallace / J.O'neal

The backup PG/SG rotation will be purely situational. If we need more scoring, we bring in IT4. If we need to lock things down, we bring Jrue Holiday.

Well, you know my opinion. I think your current big rotation might be the weakest one in our league, while you have a ton of depth at guard.  I would explore options to trade one of the Pauls to balance the roster.

Cliff Robinson is a great glue guy. The perfect 3+D PF. Defends SFs, PFs, even small-ball Centers. With Westbrook running the point and the 2 Pauls next to him, there is more than enough fire power in the starting lineup. Cliff+Wallace are useful low usage players.

What I would do is explore the market for an IT4 trade. No point having him as a 3rd stringer at the end of the bench, much less given that the second unit has 3 talented offensive players: Beal, Abdur Rahim, O'neal. But then again, I was never a fan of IT4. Not even when he was averaging close to 30 points in Boston.

I’ve made this points in past draft, but I think that one dimensional or low usage players are useless in a starting lineup in these games.  Realistically, teams need five players who can put the ball in the bucket at a high-level.

Sure, in the actual NBA you can use a specialist in your starting lineup.  In a league where teams start five multi-dimensional players, I don’t think having three great scorers is enough.

Well, it's a good thing that Cliff Robinson averaged 18.5 points a game on the year I chose for him.

It's certainly not elite, but it's still really good. And he can do it in a variety of ways. He can do it spotting up, some off the dribble, slashing, on the break, and he is decent in getting to the line, as evident by a near 5 FTA a game. Heck, this is the season Cliff recorded his career high in points when he dropped 50 on the Denver Nuggets. He also had six 30 point games in this season.

Scoring might not be an elite skill for Cliff Robinson at this point in his career, but he's certainly still capable.

And it helps that he's an All-NBA 2nd Team Defender.

[Jvalin]

Is OKC going small with Paul George at PF?

A Jrue & Russ starting backcourt?

Seems like a waste of that incredible backup backcourt of Isaiah Thomas and Bradley Beal if they are going to drop one of those guys from the rotation. Or maybe drop Jrue Holiday. Or maybe drop Paul George and use him as a backup SF/PF.

My first instinct is start Cliff Robinson at PF and then you have Shareef Abdur-Rahim as the backup PF.

I don't know where you fix Westbrook in.

I was leaning towards OKC as my #1 team in the West before this trade. Very interested to hear how they will make this work.

Here's how we are trying to go.

Westbrook / Holiday / Thomas
George / Beal / Holiday
Pierce / Prince
Robinson / Abdur-Rahim
B. Wallace / J.O'neal

The backup PG/SG rotation will be purely situational. If we need more scoring, we bring in IT4. If we need to lock things down, we bring Jrue Holiday.

Well, you know my opinion. I think your current big rotation might be the weakest one in our league, while you have a ton of depth at guard.  I would explore options to trade one of the Pauls to balance the roster.

Cliff Robinson is a great glue guy. The perfect 3+D PF. Defends SFs, PFs, even small-ball Centers. With Westbrook running the point and the 2 Pauls next to him, there is more than enough fire power in the starting lineup. Cliff+Wallace are useful low usage players.

What I would do is explore the market for an IT4 trade. No point having him as a 3rd stringer at the end of the bench, much less given that the second unit has 3 talented offensive players: Beal, Abdur Rahim, O'neal. But then again, I was never a fan of IT4. Not even when he was averaging close to 30 points in Boston.

I’ve made this points in past draft, but I think that one dimensional or low usage players are useless in a starting lineup in these games.  Realistically, teams need five players who can put the ball in the bucket at a high-level.

Sure, in the actual NBA you can use a specialist in your starting lineup.  In a league where teams start five multi-dimensional players, I don’t think having three great scorers is enough.

Agree to disagree.

You can't have 5 alphas in your starting lineup. There won't be enough shots for everybody and you'll end up with a dysfunctional team. Remember the 2018-2019 Celtics? In a vacuum, the starting lineup was loaded with stars.

Kyrie - Brown - Hayward - Tatum - Horford

If you ask me, the C's failed not because they weren't talented enough, but because they had too much talent!

[Who]

Is OKC going small with Paul George at PF?

A Jrue & Russ starting backcourt?

Seems like a waste of that incredible backup backcourt of Isaiah Thomas and Bradley Beal if they are going to drop one of those guys from the rotation. Or maybe drop Jrue Holiday. Or maybe drop Paul George and use him as a backup SF/PF.

My first instinct is start Cliff Robinson at PF and then you have Shareef Abdur-Rahim as the backup PF.

I don't know where you fix Westbrook in.

I was leaning towards OKC as my #1 team in the West before this trade. Very interested to hear how they will make this work.

Here's how we are trying to go.

Westbrook / Holiday / Thomas
George / Beal / Holiday
Pierce / Prince
Robinson / Abdur-Rahim
B. Wallace / J.O'neal

The backup PG/SG rotation will be purely situational. If we need more scoring, we bring in IT4. If we need to lock things down, we bring Jrue Holiday.

Well, you know my opinion. I think your current big rotation might be the weakest one in our league, while you have a ton of depth at guard.  I would explore options to trade one of the Pauls to balance the roster.

That is a good idea.

[Roy H.]

Is OKC going small with Paul George at PF?

A Jrue & Russ starting backcourt?

Seems like a waste of that incredible backup backcourt of Isaiah Thomas and Bradley Beal if they are going to drop one of those guys from the rotation. Or maybe drop Jrue Holiday. Or maybe drop Paul George and use him as a backup SF/PF.

My first instinct is start Cliff Robinson at PF and then you have Shareef Abdur-Rahim as the backup PF.

I don't know where you fix Westbrook in.

I was leaning towards OKC as my #1 team in the West before this trade. Very interested to hear how they will make this work.

Here's how we are trying to go.

Westbrook / Holiday / Thomas
George / Beal / Holiday
Pierce / Prince
Robinson / Abdur-Rahim
B. Wallace / J.O'neal

The backup PG/SG rotation will be purely situational. If we need more scoring, we bring in IT4. If we need to lock things down, we bring Jrue Holiday.

Well, you know my opinion. I think your current big rotation might be the weakest one in our league, while you have a ton of depth at guard.  I would explore options to trade one of the Pauls to balance the roster.

Cliff Robinson is a great glue guy. The perfect 3+D PF. Defends SFs, PFs, even small-ball Centers. With Westbrook running the point and the 2 Pauls next to him, there is more than enough fire power in the starting lineup. Cliff+Wallace are useful low usage players.

What I would do is explore the market for an IT4 trade. No point having him as a 3rd stringer at the end of the bench, much less given that the second unit has 3 talented offensive players: Beal, Abdur Rahim, O'neal. But then again, I was never a fan of IT4. Not even when he was averaging close to 30 points in Boston.

I’ve made this points in past draft, but I think that one dimensional or low usage players are useless in a starting lineup in these games.  Realistically, teams need five players who can put the ball in the bucket at a high-level.

Sure, in the actual NBA you can use a specialist in your starting lineup.  In a league where teams start five multi-dimensional players, I don’t think having three great scorers is enough.

Agree to disagree.

You can't have 5 alphas in your starting lineup. There won't be enough shots for everybody and you'll end up with a dysfunctional team. Remember the 2018-2019 Celtics? In a vacuum, the starting lineup was loaded with stars.

Kyrie - Brown - Hayward - Tatum - Horford

If you ask me, the C's failed not because they weren't talented enough, but because they had too much talent!

This isn’t a normal league.  There’s a redistribution of talent, meaning that even the below average guys are capable of averaging 20 ppg in real life.  Guys who used to be alphas no longer are.  The goal here isn’t to model a great NBA team, it’s to assemble a team of greats that would beat other greats.

Character matters, but guys with clear talent deficiencies are going to hurt their teams.

[Who]

I was skeptical of Uncle Cliffy as a starter at first but I came around to the idea. He is very good defensively. Versatile man to man defender and mobile team defender. Offensively, he is a good 5th option. He shoot, he can put the ball on the floor and drive, and he can finish going to the basket. He gives you floor spacing. His rebounding is weak but at that stage in his career he boxed out well on the defensive glass.

Not wild about him starting next to Ben Wallace though. That is a lot more offensive pressure on Uncle Cliffy than is healthy for him.

[Who]

G: Westbrook, Isaiah
G: Beal, Jrue
F: George, Pierce
F: Uncle Cliffy, Abdur-Rahim
C: JO, Big Ben


I lean towards that as the best use of this team's talent. Need to get JO in there instead of Big Ben. I want to get more speed and a more dynamic ball-handler in there to play alongside Westbrook. Beal looks the best option to me. I reckon PG13 would play better off the ball to those two guys than Pierce would which is why I moved Pierce to the bench in a 6th man role. Let Isaiah and Pierce run the second unit.

I'd play Shareef as little as possible. Better off going small with PG13 at PF and Pierce at SF whenever possible.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I was skeptical of Uncle Cliffy as a starter at first but I came around to the idea. He is very good defensively. Versatile man to man defender and mobile team defender. Offensively, he is a good 5th option. He shoot, he can put the ball on the floor and drive, and he can finish going to the basket. He gives you floor spacing. His rebounding is weak but at that stage in his career he boxed out well on the defensive glass.

Not wild about him starting next to Ben Wallace though. That is a lot more offensive pressure on Uncle Cliffy than is healthy for him.

Totally get it. Hard decision for me too, but I'm just banking on the idea that Rus, Cliffy and the Pauls can carry the offense enough. I think they can. If need be, we got two excellent scoring guards we can bring off the bench. And if we need more, we'll just have to sub in JO early.

Ben is absolutely needed in the starting lineup now without LMA. Cliff Robinson's rebounding numbers are not pretty, and we are going to have to rely on Big Ben to clean the boards. Jermaine O'neal can certainly do that too, but not at the level of Ben Wallace.

[Roy H.]

G: Westbrook, Isaiah
G: Beal, Jrue
F: George, Pierce
F: Uncle Cliffy, Abdur-Rahim
C: JO, Big Ben


I lean towards that as the best use of this team's talent. Need to get JO in there instead of Big Ben. I want to get more speed and a more dynamic ball-handler in there to play alongside Westbrook. Beal looks the best option to me. I reckon PG13 would play better off the ball to those two guys than Pierce would which is why I moved Pierce to the bench in a 6th man role. Let Isaiah and Pierce run the second unit.

I'd play Shareef as little as possible. Better off going small with PG13 at PF and Pierce at SF whenever possible.

I’m curious on your thoughts.

Assume a hypothetical trade of Karl Malone and Jayson Tatum for Paul George and Tayahaun Prince.  Who benefits?

[Jvalin]

Is OKC going small with Paul George at PF?

A Jrue & Russ starting backcourt?

Seems like a waste of that incredible backup backcourt of Isaiah Thomas and Bradley Beal if they are going to drop one of those guys from the rotation. Or maybe drop Jrue Holiday. Or maybe drop Paul George and use him as a backup SF/PF.

My first instinct is start Cliff Robinson at PF and then you have Shareef Abdur-Rahim as the backup PF.

I don't know where you fix Westbrook in.

I was leaning towards OKC as my #1 team in the West before this trade. Very interested to hear how they will make this work.

Here's how we are trying to go.

Westbrook / Holiday / Thomas
George / Beal / Holiday
Pierce / Prince
Robinson / Abdur-Rahim
B. Wallace / J.O'neal

The backup PG/SG rotation will be purely situational. If we need more scoring, we bring in IT4. If we need to lock things down, we bring Jrue Holiday.

Well, you know my opinion. I think your current big rotation might be the weakest one in our league, while you have a ton of depth at guard.  I would explore options to trade one of the Pauls to balance the roster.

Cliff Robinson is a great glue guy. The perfect 3+D PF. Defends SFs, PFs, even small-ball Centers. With Westbrook running the point and the 2 Pauls next to him, there is more than enough fire power in the starting lineup. Cliff+Wallace are useful low usage players.

What I would do is explore the market for an IT4 trade. No point having him as a 3rd stringer at the end of the bench, much less given that the second unit has 3 talented offensive players: Beal, Abdur Rahim, O'neal. But then again, I was never a fan of IT4. Not even when he was averaging close to 30 points in Boston.

I’ve made this points in past draft, but I think that one dimensional or low usage players are useless in a starting lineup in these games.  Realistically, teams need five players who can put the ball in the bucket at a high-level.

Sure, in the actual NBA you can use a specialist in your starting lineup.  In a league where teams start five multi-dimensional players, I don’t think having three great scorers is enough.

Agree to disagree.

You can't have 5 alphas in your starting lineup. There won't be enough shots for everybody and you'll end up with a dysfunctional team. Remember the 2018-2019 Celtics? In a vacuum, the starting lineup was loaded with stars.

Kyrie - Brown - Hayward - Tatum - Horford

If you ask me, the C's failed not because they weren't talented enough, but because they had too much talent!

This isn’t a normal league. There’s a redistribution of talent, meaning that even the below average guys are capable of averaging 20 ppg in real life.  Guys who used to be alphas no longer are.

Character matters, but guys with clear talent deficiencies are going to hurt their teams.

This is the problem right there (the bolded part). What happens when a guy who is used to be the alpha is ordered to stand in the corner as a weak side shooter? Not all players are willing to sacrifice their personal numbers for their team.

If you ask me, character matters big time. My #1 priority going into the draft was selecting players who are happy to be deployed off the ball. Last thing I wanted was to create a team full of stars who cannot coexist in the same lineup.

[RPGenerate]

G: Westbrook, Isaiah
G: Beal, Jrue
F: George, Pierce
F: Uncle Cliffy, Abdur-Rahim
C: JO, Big Ben


I lean towards that as the best use of this team's talent. Need to get JO in there instead of Big Ben. I want to get more speed and a more dynamic ball-handler in there to play alongside Westbrook. Beal looks the best option to me. I reckon PG13 would play better off the ball to those two guys than Pierce would which is why I moved Pierce to the bench in a 6th man role. Let Isaiah and Pierce run the second unit.

I'd play Shareef as little as possible. Better off going small with PG13 at PF and Pierce at SF whenever possible.

I just can't see Pierce, his first pick, coming off the bench. Seems like a huge waste of a pick if he does that. I have no problems with him starting Pierce, then use Beal as a 6th man... or I can Pierce off your hands for you

[Who]

G: Westbrook, Isaiah
G: Beal, Jrue
F: George, Pierce
F: Uncle Cliffy, Abdur-Rahim
C: JO, Big Ben


I lean towards that as the best use of this team's talent. Need to get JO in there instead of Big Ben. I want to get more speed and a more dynamic ball-handler in there to play alongside Westbrook. Beal looks the best option to me. I reckon PG13 would play better off the ball to those two guys than Pierce would which is why I moved Pierce to the bench in a 6th man role. Let Isaiah and Pierce run the second unit.

I'd play Shareef as little as possible. Better off going small with PG13 at PF and Pierce at SF whenever possible.

I’m curious on your thoughts.

Assume a hypothetical trade of Karl Malone and Jayson Tatum for Paul George and Tayahaun Prince.  Who benefits?

OKC - big win on an individual talent basis. I rate Malone above PG13 and Tatum well above Tayshaun.

It takes away from your lineup versatility. K-Malone and Mourning are extremely difficult to matchup against. Then throw Giannis on top at SF. Versatility with a strong backup SF in Tatum.

Tayshaun isn't talented enough to force matchup advantages in his favour at this level. And your backup bigs are not offensively gifted enough to cause many matchup issues either whereas now you can slide Giannis over to PF and give yourself 3 dominant bigs in Malone, Giannis and Mourning with 2 very good bigs behind them and Tatum at SF to create a whole load of interesting lineups.

So far less threatening overall despite power of starting 5 with PG13.

[Who]

I have Bucks as #1 team as is.

[Jvalin]

Another option would be something like this:

PG: Westbrook
SG: Beal
SF: Pierce
PF: George
C: Wallace

Personally speaking, I don't like it (for reasons I mentioned in the previous post). Fwiw, I bet PG-13 wouldn't have liked it either. When the Pacers told him to play at the 4, he wasn't too happy about that decision.

In any case, it's definitely an option.

[RPGenerate]

Another option would be something like this:

PG: Westbrook
SG: Beal
SF: Pierce
PF: George
C: Wallace

Personally speaking, I don't like it (for reasons I mentioned in the previous post). Fwiw, I bet PG-13 wouldn't have liked it either. When the Pacers told him to play at the 4, he wasn't too happy about that decision.

In any case, it's definitely an option.

Against certain teams (like mine), that could work. Any team with two dominant low post player would be trouble for that lineup.