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Author Topic: Celtics (39-17) at Jazz (36-21) Game #58 2/26/20  (Read 11612 times)

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Re: Celtics (39-17) at Jazz (36-21) Game #58 2/26/20
« Reply #360 on: February 27, 2020, 10:56:56 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Was anyone else unimpressed with Donovan Mitchell?

I know he is good. But even when he was getting it going in the second quarter, I really wasn't too worried. Just something about his offensive game that seems like he can't lead his team into some exploding run that puts distance between them and us.

It's like, "Sure, go ahead and pull up again from 18 for another two, but you won't beat us taking those all game. We're good as long as you don't hit shooters."

I'm not saying he isn't an All-star. He is. There's just something about his hype compared to his actual play that is always a little disappointing.

Even though his shooting is up a bit this year he's always seemed kinda inefficient and the more he scores the more ball-dominant he becomes. He'd be better suited as a #2 or 3 option who picks his spots, but he has a #1 guy mentality and his team needs him to try to be that. Plus not great defense of course.

None of this is to say he's Andrew Wiggins or whatever; he's good, really good at times, and can be deadly when he's getting to the rim. But he's overreaching his ability a bit.

Re: Celtics (39-17) at Jazz (36-21) Game #58 2/26/20
« Reply #361 on: February 27, 2020, 11:27:28 AM »

Offline Atzar

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Was anyone else unimpressed with Donovan Mitchell?

I know he is good. But even when he was getting it going in the second quarter, I really wasn't too worried. Just something about his offensive game that seems like he can't lead his team into some exploding run that puts distance between them and us.

It's like, "Sure, go ahead and pull up again from 18 for another two, but you won't beat us taking those all game. We're good as long as you don't hit shooters."

I'm not saying he isn't an All-star. He is. There's just something about his hype compared to his actual play that is always a little disappointing.

I wonder if he might have a little bit of Monta Ellis in him.  And that's not a compliment. 

Re: Celtics (39-17) at Jazz (36-21) Game #58 2/26/20
« Reply #362 on: February 27, 2020, 12:14:53 PM »

Offline Greenblood35

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Was anyone else unimpressed with Donovan Mitchell?

I know he is good. But even when he was getting it going in the second quarter, I really wasn't too worried. Just something about his offensive game that seems like he can't lead his team into some exploding run that puts distance between them and us.

It's like, "Sure, go ahead and pull up again from 18 for another two, but you won't beat us taking those all game. We're good as long as you don't hit shooters."

I'm not saying he isn't an All-star. He is. There's just something about his hype compared to his actual play that is always a little disappointing.

I had the opposite thought. I haven't seen Mitchell play much this year, and he really surprised me with how consistently he could get to the basket, or put himself in good position to score or make a play. I also didn't realize his 3 point shooting is at 37% this season. He strikes me as a pretty special player. I don't know the breakdown on how often Smart was guarding him, (seem Tatum was on him some of the time) but to be able to put up 37 against one of the best defenders in the league is impressive.

Having said all of that, I'd take Tatum over him every day of the week and twice on Sunday. But man, Chauncey said it right, there are a lot of teams from that draft that have to be kicking themselves (2 on Tatum), and about 10 or so on Mitchell.

Re: Celtics (39-17) at Jazz (36-21) Game #58 2/26/20
« Reply #363 on: February 27, 2020, 07:47:27 PM »

Online Monkhouse

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Was anyone else unimpressed with Donovan Mitchell?

I know he is good. But even when he was getting it going in the second quarter, I really wasn't too worried. Just something about his offensive game that seems like he can't lead his team into some exploding run that puts distance between them and us.

It's like, "Sure, go ahead and pull up again from 18 for another two, but you won't beat us taking those all game. We're good as long as you don't hit shooters."

I'm not saying he isn't an All-star. He is. There's just something about his hype compared to his actual play that is always a little disappointing.

I was the opposite.

We know he's a good player, All-Star, and locked defender when he wants to be.

I know he was hyped up when he got drafted, and then he basically got the same treatment as Jayson Tatum in his first year. Where everyone expected him to take that superstar leap. And while I don't think Donovan took that leap yet, (he still needs to prove he can defend consistently and improve his jump shot,) he's pretty darn close.

The 76ers and Jazz kind of remind me of the Celtics last year. The Jazz don't quite share the exemplary offensive options we had last year, but there are certainly locker room troubles, and the question is on who's the one(s) causing it?

The funny thing is the Jazz desperately need someone like Gordon Hayward. Getting someone like Hayward opens up so many ways for Donovan to score. I really like Donovan, I think he's going to be something special, plus his lateral quickness and speed/agility/first step tells me if he can improve his shooting, then he can be adequate to consistently play in today's modern NBA. He's shooting 36.9% on 3PA, so he's slightly close to league average.

I feel like you weren't too worried, because Ingles/Bogan and Conley have suddenly declined immensely. Conley was always struggling from the beginning of his acquisition, but Ingles/Bogan were on like a monstrous tear. Now?

Absolutely dreadful, the two of them have sucked. Majorly.

Props to Donovan for trying to will his team back.

Also someone said that Donovan reminds him of Monta Ellis. 100% disagree, Monta Ellis was a selfish high USG% who didn't care about defense, and didn't care about making the team better around him. He only cared about his numbers and his shots. He also took very tough shots, and mid range pull up's. Donovan? He makes it look pretty easy, there were many times where he would seal off the defender, and was basically wide open from 2. They also forced him to take 3's, which obviously worked. But when Donovan is on fire, you never know what could happen.

I mean he got 37 points while shooting 2-10 from 3, and 5-7 from FTA. That's pretty impressive in itself.
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Re: Celtics (39-17) at Jazz (36-21) Game #58 2/26/20
« Reply #364 on: February 27, 2020, 07:57:32 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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Theis with 16 pts and 7 rebounds

Gobert with 9 pts and 9 rebounds

Pretty good for a center who supposedly isn't good enough to be a starter.

Yeah it honestly looks like we have to expand our "core" from 5 to 6 guys.  Theis looks that important.

I definitely view Theis as part of our core. His presence is just as important as about any other one of our core group.
Apart from Tatum now, he might be the most crucial piece, since missing other guys' scoring production (like Walker) can be filled up by our other starters.
Historical draft 2020, Miami Heat:

PG: Chris Paul, Gilbert Arenas, George Hill
SG: Jimmy Butler, Brandon Roy
SF: Scottie Pippen, Rashard Lewis, Josh Howard
PF: Kevin Love, Andrei Kirilenko, Boris Diaw
C: Dwight Howard, DeAndre Jordan, Nikola Vucevic

Re: Celtics (39-17) at Jazz (36-21) Game #58 2/26/20
« Reply #365 on: February 27, 2020, 08:11:17 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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Was anyone else unimpressed with Donovan Mitchell?

I know he is good. But even when he was getting it going in the second quarter, I really wasn't too worried. Just something about his offensive game that seems like he can't lead his team into some exploding run that puts distance between them and us.

It's like, "Sure, go ahead and pull up again from 18 for another two, but you won't beat us taking those all game. We're good as long as you don't hit shooters."

I'm not saying he isn't an All-star. He is. There's just something about his hype compared to his actual play that is always a little disappointing.

I was impressed with him. They get blown out if he wasn't keeping them in it through long stretches in the 2nd and 3rd quarters. With Bogdanovich in a funk, and whatever is going on with Conley, he was a one man show for a lot of last night's game.


Re: Celtics (39-17) at Jazz (36-21) Game #58 2/26/20
« Reply #366 on: February 27, 2020, 08:34:42 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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Just watched the 2d half. To me the best part was the way they beat the Utah blitzes of Tatum. Not perfect but much better than against LA a couple games ago. Itís great they start seeing it in the regular season - to be really ready at playoff time. And if itís our best five on the floor end of the game we should destroy those traps and blitzes!

Re: Celtics (39-17) at Jazz (36-21) Game #58 2/26/20
« Reply #367 on: February 27, 2020, 09:01:27 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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Was anyone else unimpressed with Donovan Mitchell?

I know he is good. But even when he was getting it going in the second quarter, I really wasn't too worried. Just something about his offensive game that seems like he can't lead his team into some exploding run that puts distance between them and us.

It's like, "Sure, go ahead and pull up again from 18 for another two, but you won't beat us taking those all game. We're good as long as you don't hit shooters."

I'm not saying he isn't an All-star. He is. There's just something about his hype compared to his actual play that is always a little disappointing.

Even though his shooting is up a bit this year he's always seemed kinda inefficient and the more he scores the more ball-dominant he becomes. He'd be better suited as a #2 or 3 option who picks his spots, but he has a #1 guy mentality and his team needs him to try to be that. Plus not great defense of course.

None of this is to say he's Andrew Wiggins or whatever; he's good, really good at times, and can be deadly when he's getting to the rim. But he's overreaching his ability a bit.

Unimpressed as well. His totals look good buthedidnt shoot that well. Doesnt seem to do much but score. Missed Gobert a couple of times when Gobert was WIDE OPEN.Tbh I was more impressed with SGA when we faced okc.

Re: Celtics (39-17) at Jazz (36-21) Game #58 2/26/20
« Reply #368 on: February 27, 2020, 09:05:08 PM »

Offline Atzar

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Also someone said that Donovan reminds him of Monta Ellis. 100% disagree, Monta Ellis was a selfish high USG% who didn't care about defense, and didn't care about making the team better around him. He only cared about his numbers and his shots. He also took very tough shots, and mid range pull up's. Donovan? He makes it look pretty easy, there were many times where he would seal off the defender, and was basically wide open from 2. They also forced him to take 3's, which obviously worked. But when Donovan is on fire, you never know what could happen.

I mean he got 37 points while shooting 2-10 from 3, and 5-7 from FTA. That's pretty impressive in itself.

There are a lot of players in this league who can put up points if you let them shoot every time up the court.  He was a ball hog last night.  I'm a lot more impressed with Tatum scoring 33 on 20 shots than I am with Mitchell scoring 37 on 32 shots. 

I don't think Mitchell is selfish, exactly.  So in that respect, my comparison to Monta is unfair.  But I think there are similarities otherwise.  Mitchell is a high-usage offensive player (30.6% ranks 15th in the NBA) who is shaky on defense.  Utah spent a lot of time yesterday trying to hide him in the weakside corner on defense. 

To expand on the selfishness point:  I give Mitchell the benefit of the doubt because Mitchell Ball was Utah's best chance at a good shot for the first two years of his career.  It's what he learned and it's what he knows, and he hasn't really learned how to share the ball with other good offensive players yet (no, I don't think Conley just started sucking overnight... I think his role has a lot to do with his struggles).  But he's very young and he hasn't played with some of these players for very long.  Let's see what they look like next year.

Re: Celtics (39-17) at Jazz (36-21) Game #58 2/26/20
« Reply #369 on: February 27, 2020, 09:07:33 PM »

Online Monkhouse

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Was anyone else unimpressed with Donovan Mitchell?

I know he is good. But even when he was getting it going in the second quarter, I really wasn't too worried. Just something about his offensive game that seems like he can't lead his team into some exploding run that puts distance between them and us.

It's like, "Sure, go ahead and pull up again from 18 for another two, but you won't beat us taking those all game. We're good as long as you don't hit shooters."

I'm not saying he isn't an All-star. He is. There's just something about his hype compared to his actual play that is always a little disappointing.

Even though his shooting is up a bit this year he's always seemed kinda inefficient and the more he scores the more ball-dominant he becomes. He'd be better suited as a #2 or 3 option who picks his spots, but he has a #1 guy mentality and his team needs him to try to be that. Plus not great defense of course.

None of this is to say he's Andrew Wiggins or whatever; he's good, really good at times, and can be deadly when he's getting to the rim. But he's overreaching his ability a bit.

Unimpressed as well. His totals look good buthedidnt shoot that well. Doesnt seem to do much but score. Missed Gobert a couple of times when Gobert was WIDE OPEN.Tbh I was more impressed with SGA when we faced okc.

I like SGA too, really think when he's peaked, he'll be a top 20 player.

But that being said, it seems kind of unfair to judge Mitchell for having tunnel vision. His entire team is struggling, and there's really no one else besides Conley, who has any elite experience at leading a team/running the offense. I mean they were supposed to start Ingles, but then benched him in favor of Conley...

But I do agree with fairweatherfan, Mitchell to me, is someone I would consider 1B, and not 1A. I think he needs to be surrounded by another dominant closer that can take the load off him.

Also someone said that Donovan reminds him of Monta Ellis. 100% disagree, Monta Ellis was a selfish high USG% who didn't care about defense, and didn't care about making the team better around him. He only cared about his numbers and his shots. He also took very tough shots, and mid range pull up's. Donovan? He makes it look pretty easy, there were many times where he would seal off the defender, and was basically wide open from 2. They also forced him to take 3's, which obviously worked. But when Donovan is on fire, you never know what could happen.

I mean he got 37 points while shooting 2-10 from 3, and 5-7 from FTA. That's pretty impressive in itself.

There are a lot of players in this league who can put up points if you let them shoot every time up the court.  He was a ball hog last night.  I'm a lot more impressed with Tatum scoring 33 on 20 shots than I am with Mitchell scoring 37 on 32 shots. 

I don't think Mitchell is selfish, exactly.  So in that respect, my comparison to Monta is unfair.  But I think there are similarities otherwise.  Mitchell is a high-usage offensive player (30.6% ranks 15th in the NBA) who is shaky on defense.  Utah spent a lot of time yesterday trying to hide him in the weakside corner on defense. 

To expand on the selfishness point:  I give Mitchell the benefit of the doubt because Mitchell Ball was Utah's best chance at a good shot for the first two years of his career.  It's what he learned and it's what he knows, and he hasn't really learned how to share the ball with other good offensive players yet (no, I don't think Conley just started sucking overnight... I think his role has a lot to do with his struggles).  But he's very young and he hasn't played with some of these players for very long.  Let's see what they look like next year.

I get your points, and they make total sense. I didn't mean to sound like a jerk with my comments about Monta. I just hate Monta's game, and I dread what would've happened to Curry's trajectory and career if GSW decided to keep both anyways.

I think Mitchell's situation is related to the fact no one else on his team is a bonafide 3rd/2nd go to scorer. Ingles/Bogan/Conley are all great players, but their more skilled role players at this point in their careers. But I will nod my head in agreement that Mitchell's game is as is right now, it's on him to change his playing style to further fit his teammates, or he can keep developing as he is right now. And see if he makes that quantum leap to stardom.

I once mentioned that the Jazz should jump the gun, and try to nail a trade for Kevin Love. I think adding Love next to Mitchell, allows so much floor spacing, and allows Gobert to really feast on and pick and rolls.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 09:13:05 PM by Monkhouse »
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: Celtics (39-17) at Jazz (36-21) Game #58 2/26/20
« Reply #370 on: February 27, 2020, 09:47:21 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

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I didnt mean to imply that Mitchell is a ballhog, just that other than scoring, he doesnt do much else.He's a decent passer, but last time he missed Gobert a couple of times. When I see Mitchell I think his ceiling is Bradley Beal, not monta. Beal is a good player, but not necessarily someone who could lead a team to the playoffs without help.