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Author Topic: Is draymond being exposed?  (Read 2639 times)

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Is draymond being exposed?
« on: December 10, 2019, 12:28:58 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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I feel like a lot of people talked about him as a top 15 player but he looks completely irrelevant without curry, Thompson and Durant. Is he any different than a Drummond, Vucevic or even Marcus smart?

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2019, 12:37:08 AM »

Offline gouki88

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His performance this season is basically exactly what I expected to see. He's way past his prime (look at 15-16 Green compared to now), and defences are giving him some actual attention now that the big 3 aren't out there with him. He's been reliably inefficient at scoring over the last few years, but it's noticeably worse this season.

Can't say I'm sorry to see him decline like this. Always disliked the way he played the game
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Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2019, 01:24:45 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Big time exposed. A lot of people theorized this is how green would perform if he lead a team on his own

Should be interesting to see if golden state re-signs him at how much?  And how his free agency overall goes

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2019, 01:30:36 AM »

Offline wiley

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I dont think so.  Its hard to look good on a horrible team.  He was excellent just some months ago in the playoffs. 
His thing is intangibles.  His defense may not be so good this year but thats good for the Warriors future. Itll be good again next year.
An intangibles guy on the worst team in the league will have trouble impressing anyone.  Hed be an absolute stud on this Celtics team...
And I mean without scoring.

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2019, 01:44:12 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Draymond Green had the luxury of playing along with 3 other superstar players in the past.

He can eat dog crap for dissing Paul Pierce. At least PP34 can lead his team with or without help.

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2019, 02:17:54 AM »

Offline MattyIce

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Big time exposed. A lot of people theorized this is how green would perform if he lead a team on his own

Should be interesting to see if golden state re-signs him at how much?  And how his free agency overall goes

he just signed a 4 year 100 mill extension

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2019, 02:29:37 AM »

Online Somebody

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His qualities just aren't great at carrying poor teams. KG had a similar (but much more minor) problem when he was stuck with poor personnel in Minnesota, his passing, defence and shooting unlocked the potential of his teammates, but he couldn't ramp up his scoring if his teams needed a big time scorer who could score oodles of moderate to high efficiency points.

I think Draymond has declined from his 2015-2016 season (that year was nuts, he was a DPOY calibre defender who provided great complementary offensive value with efficient outside shooting on high volume and great passing), but he's still an All-NBA frontcourt player due to his defence (still insane) and passing (hasn't really declined).
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Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2019, 03:46:38 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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His qualities just aren't great at carrying poor teams. KG had a similar (but much more minor) problem when he was stuck with poor personnel in Minnesota, his passing, defence and shooting unlocked the potential of his teammates, but he couldn't ramp up his scoring if his teams needed a big time scorer who could score oodles of moderate to high efficiency points.

I think Draymond has declined from his 2015-2016 season (that year was nuts, he was a DPOY calibre defender who provided great complementary offensive value with efficient outside shooting on high volume and great passing), but he's still an All-NBA frontcourt player due to his defence (still insane) and passing (hasn't really declined).

This is crap. KG was an all-nba type of player even with mediocre teammates. The one season in minnesota where he got some borderline all-star teammates? He got MVP. Green is nowhere that.

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2019, 05:17:58 AM »

Online Somebody

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His qualities just aren't great at carrying poor teams. KG had a similar (but much more minor) problem when he was stuck with poor personnel in Minnesota, his passing, defence and shooting unlocked the potential of his teammates, but he couldn't ramp up his scoring if his teams needed a big time scorer who could score oodles of moderate to high efficiency points.

I think Draymond has declined from his 2015-2016 season (that year was nuts, he was a DPOY calibre defender who provided great complementary offensive value with efficient outside shooting on high volume and great passing), but he's still an All-NBA frontcourt player due to his defence (still insane) and passing (hasn't really declined).

This is crap. KG was an all-nba type of player even with mediocre teammates. The one season in minnesota where he got some borderline all-star teammates? He got MVP. Green is nowhere that.
That's why I said much more minor (Garnett could score really well, but he couldn't be an offensive anchor like Dirk/Duncan). What you're saying is crap if you don't see the similarities between prime Draymond and KG: both provided floor spacing, elite defence, great passing but imperfect scoring (obviously Draymond is much worse at scoring, that's why Garnett is an MVP player while Draymond is an All-NBA guy).

KG had difficulties in leading some Wolves teams that needed resilient playoff scoring to deep playoff runs while his contemporaries that had more floor-raising friendly games (Duncan, Dirk) lead some similar teams to deep playoff runs (eg. 03 Spurs, 06 Mavs). This is similar (although to a much larger degree) to what Draymond is experiencing right now: he's fantastic as a third/fourth banana in terms of scoring (KG would ideally be second, he's way better than Green at scoring) that'll raise the ceiling of teams through the roof, but will struggle to raise the floor of subpar teams that need a floor raiser who can do the heavy lifting, and in Draymond's case he can't do any significant floor raising at all due to his scoring regressing to craprastic levels (jumpshot is gone). This isn't Draymond getting exposed, this is him in the worst situation possible for his skillset. It doesnt change the fact that he's still an All-NBA calibre player (maybe All-Star if you look at him in a more negative light) due to his unique skillset, even after his regression into a non-shooter.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2019, 05:23:38 AM by Somebody »
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Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2019, 05:55:17 AM »

Offline Androslav

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Dray is a high-level role player. Just like Rodman or Smart.
My opinion on him hasn't changed this year due to Warriors tanking and him being unmotivated.
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Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2019, 07:23:33 AM »

Offline cman88

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Dray is a high-level role player. Just like Rodman or Smart.
My opinion on him hasn't changed this year due to Warriors tanking and him being unmotivated.

yeah, imagine if everyone on the celtics went down and your best player was now marcus smart..thats essentially what happened here.

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2019, 07:55:25 AM »

Online CelticsWhat35

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I feel like a lot of people talked about him as a top 15 player but he looks completely irrelevant without curry, Thompson and Durant. Is he any different than a Drummond, Vucevic or even Marcus smart?

Yes, he absolutely is and hes exactly what I thought hed be without a bunch of all stars.  Hes a good role player and any contending team would love to have a guy like him, but hes not an all-star and hes been vastly overrated by the media throughout his career.  I hope he picks up the tab whenever he goes out to dinner with Steph and Klay

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2019, 08:03:24 AM »

Offline RockinRyA

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His qualities just aren't great at carrying poor teams. KG had a similar (but much more minor) problem when he was stuck with poor personnel in Minnesota, his passing, defence and shooting unlocked the potential of his teammates, but he couldn't ramp up his scoring if his teams needed a big time scorer who could score oodles of moderate to high efficiency points.

I think Draymond has declined from his 2015-2016 season (that year was nuts, he was a DPOY calibre defender who provided great complementary offensive value with efficient outside shooting on high volume and great passing), but he's still an All-NBA frontcourt player due to his defence (still insane) and passing (hasn't really declined).

This is crap. KG was an all-nba type of player even with mediocre teammates. The one season in minnesota where he got some borderline all-star teammates? He got MVP. Green is nowhere that.
That's why I said much more minor (Garnett could score really well, but he couldn't be an offensive anchor like Dirk/Duncan). What you're saying is crap if you don't see the similarities between prime Draymond and KG: both provided floor spacing, elite defence, great passing but imperfect scoring (obviously Draymond is much worse at scoring, that's why Garnett is an MVP player while Draymond is an All-NBA guy).

KG had difficulties in leading some Wolves teams that needed resilient playoff scoring to deep playoff runs while his contemporaries that had more floor-raising friendly games (Duncan, Dirk) lead some similar teams to deep playoff runs (eg. 03 Spurs, 06 Mavs). This is similar (although to a much larger degree) to what Draymond is experiencing right now: he's fantastic as a third/fourth banana in terms of scoring (KG would ideally be second, he's way better than Green at scoring) that'll raise the ceiling of teams through the roof, but will struggle to raise the floor of subpar teams that need a floor raiser who can do the heavy lifting, and in Draymond's case he can't do any significant floor raising at all due to his scoring regressing to craprastic levels (jumpshot is gone). This isn't Draymond getting exposed, this is him in the worst situation possible for his skillset. It doesnt change the fact that he's still an All-NBA calibre player (maybe All-Star if you look at him in a more negative light) due to his unique skillset, even after his regression into a non-shooter.

Disagree. KG was very hard to guard, its just that he wasn't that too willing to shoot. The difference between the two is huge. He is inferior to KG in almost every tangible stat there is.

I see Draymond as a premium Marcus Smart, not as KG-lite. That is an insult to KG who is undoubtedly a top 5 player in his era (which Draymond is nowhere near)

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2019, 08:07:03 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I think part of it is that the NBA has changed and adapted to what Draymond does now. Going small and effectively guarding, the passing, the spacing, etc. Every team does this at least some of the game, most teams do it for the entire game. Somewhat similar to Kevin Love, the game moved in his direction such that he is no longer as special as he once was.

Now add in Draymond's own athletic and shooting decline and you have what we are seeing now.

Re: Is draymond being exposed?
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2019, 08:40:52 AM »

Online Roy H.

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I think the folks who had him as a top-15 player were always wrong.  Draymond has always been very bad at creating his own shot. Hes an elite role player, not a star.
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