Author Topic: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?  (Read 6384 times)

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Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2019, 08:43:50 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Absolutely zero need to bring up skin color. None whatsoever. And in doing so, the analyst really messed up. The comment stinks of that old racial trope that it's hard to see black people in the dark. He messed up and he should consider himself lucky if he gets to keep his job.
He didn't just bring up skin color.  He also brought up the dark uniform.  It is harder to see darker skinned people in the dark.  It is harder to see people dressed in dark clothing in the dark.  It is also harder to see light on light.   Contrasting colors standout.  Similar coloring blends in.  But feel free to change your computer settings to dark grey text on a black background.
Sure, I will change those computer settings, as soon as you take your head out of the sand, learn a bit about and see the comment for how bad it is. Tim Ryan, the analyst has even apologized for the poor use of his words.

Don't get me wrong, I know the guy isn't a racist, but the statement can be interpreted as a racist dog whistle. And it does harken back to the racial trope I brought up earlier. He chose a very bad way to describe the situation. The choice of those words could reflect poorly on his employer so they suspended him. As I said earlier, he is lucky to have a job. Just a stupid choice of words.
I don't have my head in the sand.  I'm not surprised by the 49ers reaction or Ryan's apology.  He'd be stupid not to apologize and lose his job over something so silly.  I don't care about a person's skin color but I certainly wish everyone would get thicker skins.
 
Everyone is looking to take offense nowadays.  Everyone is looking to play the victim card.  I don't like people making mountains out of mole hills because it distracts from the actual mountains. 

Edit:  Please note that I didn't take offense when you said I had my head in the sand even though you're dead wrong.  I'm not an Ostrich with my head in the sand and I'm not a Chicken Little crying the sky is falling all the time. 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2019, 09:06:24 PM by tazzmaniac »

Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2019, 08:46:38 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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I’d say the guy deserved to get suspended and probably should’ve been fired. Not sure how someone can think otherwise. As much as I hate political correctness, I hate ignorance that much more.

For saying that a brown football is harder to see against a dark background (Jersey, hand)?  Is that really ignorant, or just insensitive?

I bet Belichick is looking into the claim right now. Next game the Pats will be wearing brown uniforms with Brady wearing brown sleeves and gloves.
Definitely not ignorant and probably a thoughtful analysis since it makes perfect sense, but if so many people are offended or acting as if they are offended it shouldn’t have been said.  You are joking about Belichick but you know that he has thought about the announcer’s theory.
I wonder if there is a rule about making a glove that actually looks like a football not just the color.

I don’t know about the “look like a football” part but the glove rules, at least from 2015, stated that gloves could only be “solid white, solid black, or a solid color that is an official color of the applicable club.”  Gloves could also be a tri-color combination of the three or a bi-color combination.

NFL uniform rules are a maze.  Almost positive MLB has rules against wearing white long sleeves as a pitcher.


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Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2019, 09:13:15 PM »

Offline moiso

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I’d say the guy deserved to get suspended and probably should’ve been fired. Not sure how someone can think otherwise. As much as I hate political correctness, I hate ignorance that much more.

For saying that a brown football is harder to see against a dark background (Jersey, hand)?  Is that really ignorant, or just insensitive?

I bet Belichick is looking into the claim right now. Next game the Pats will be wearing brown uniforms with Brady wearing brown sleeves and gloves.
Definitely not ignorant and probably a thoughtful analysis since it makes perfect sense, but if so many people are offended or acting as if they are offended it shouldn’t have been said.  You are joking about Belichick but you know that he has thought about the announcer’s theory.
I wonder if there is a rule about making a glove that actually looks like a football not just the color.
Odell Beckham will wear the prototype :D

Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2019, 11:15:17 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Well Richard Sherman wasn't offended and confirms the difficulty in seeing it.   

"I understand how it can be taken under a certain context and be offensive to some. But if you're saying, 'Hey, this is a brown ball, they're wearing dark colors, and he has brown arms,' honestly, we were having trouble seeing it on film. He's making the play fake and sometimes he's swinging his arm really fast. And you're like, 'Okay, does he have the ball on that play?' And you look up and (Mark) Ingram's running it.

"So it was technically a valid point, you can always phrase things better. You can always phrase things and not say, 'his black skin,' you know?"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2865632-49ers-richard-sherman-tim-ryans-comments-on-lamar-jackson-werent-offensive?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2019, 11:23:36 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Well Richard Sherman wasn't offended and confirms the difficulty in seeing it.   

"I understand how it can be taken under a certain context and be offensive to some. But if you're saying, 'Hey, this is a brown ball, they're wearing dark colors, and he has brown arms,' honestly, we were having trouble seeing it on film. He's making the play fake and sometimes he's swinging his arm really fast. And you're like, 'Okay, does he have the ball on that play?' And you look up and (Mark) Ingram's running it.

"So it was technically a valid point, you can always phrase things better. You can always phrase things and not say, 'his black skin,' you know?"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2865632-49ers-richard-sherman-tim-ryans-comments-on-lamar-jackson-werent-offensive?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

His job is to speak live and extemporaneously, and he messed up this time.  He isn’t losing his job.  But he’s facing some consequences for not saying things the right way.  Even Sherman acknowledges that he said something wrong in your quoted text.

Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2019, 01:10:06 AM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

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Well Richard Sherman wasn't offended and confirms the difficulty in seeing it.   

"I understand how it can be taken under a certain context and be offensive to some. But if you're saying, 'Hey, this is a brown ball, they're wearing dark colors, and he has brown arms,' honestly, we were having trouble seeing it on film. He's making the play fake and sometimes he's swinging his arm really fast. And you're like, 'Okay, does he have the ball on that play?' And you look up and (Mark) Ingram's running it.

"So it was technically a valid point, you can always phrase things better. You can always phrase things and not say, 'his black skin,' you know?"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2865632-49ers-richard-sherman-tim-ryans-comments-on-lamar-jackson-werent-offensive?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

Wow, Richard Sherman as the voice of reason. Who would've thunk it?
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Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2019, 03:10:30 AM »

Offline Androslav

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The observation makes sense and seemingly was said without prejudice but no, you can’t say it these days.  Just don’t bring up skin color if you want to keep your job.
It is pretty apparent and globally accepted that people have different skin pigments, but once you say it...watch out.
That is really lame when you think of it.

What will be next, folks won't be able to say that someone 5 feet tall is short, that toothless folks have an unappealing smile and that 400 lbs folks are obese?

Oversensitivity is not sensitivity.

Given the context of the conversation, it doesn't seem that the announcer meant anything maliciously so in my view, it's not as a big view as it's meant. Instead, it's more of a lesson to be aware of how you speak, especially in a public forum. There are many things that said in public is not a big deal but we wouldn't say in public. You can joke around about somebody having an unappealing smile or that a 400lbs being obese, but you wouldn't make that statement in a public setting since somebody might take offense to it. That's just reality.

For example, I work at a gym and there's a member that has been saying something things about other female members. Basically he's checking them out and saying inappropriate comments to others. I have to speak to him because that is just not appropriate given the setting. Can he see other members and think they are attractive? Of course he can. However, when he verbalizes and place others in an uncomfortable position, that is just unprofessional and inappropriate. It is being sensitive to other feelings and that is not being oversensitive but rather being a decent human being in a public setting.

Going back to the original comment, the saga can be used as a learning tool. If you didn't think that equating somebody's complexion to darkness is inappropriate, well there are people saying it is and we can just take their word for it. Learn from it and avoid saying it in a public setting, especially when that setting involves thousands of listeners. It's not that hard to be mindful of others when speaking.
Maybe it is a cultural thing. I find it oversensitive, but historically, where I live, Croatia has never been a slave trade crossroads, the population is 99% Caucasian, and there is no such psychosis present here. There are many other scars of the past though. There are many unsolved issues in that regard in the USA, and judging by comments I probably can't fully comprehend the extent of it.
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Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2019, 06:02:08 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
There are many unsolved issues in that regard in the USA, and judging by comments I probably can't fully comprehend the extent of it.

It will be an issue that is never resolved.   How can you fix a problem that is 154 years old that affected people's ancestors?   Even if they paid reparations it would not fix it, IMHO.

For years though we had a problem with political correctness but I think we have gone too far the other direction in our attempts to correct it.  But your right, people are oversensitive about too many things in the USA today there are certainly many things to be sensitive to, but a lot of ridiculousness here,

That being said, he said a dumb thing, that most people knew would not be received well and would know not to say it.  This also was not analysis but sheer conjecture.  He put out a dumb hypothesis about a fake, in itself that is absurd.

Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2019, 06:04:53 AM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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The political correctness thing doesn’t bother me. Of course it sometimes goes too far in terms of punishment for words, but I like that people might have a little more inhibition or take a little more time to think before they speak. And generally it is garbage (untrue) that you “can’t” say this or that — you can say anything you want, it’s just that there might be an unpleasant consequence for saying it.  I believe the consequence for a dumb statement or something inappropriate that slipped out or was poorly worded should be nothing more than a social consequence such as a correction or pointing out that what was said was unkind or offensive. I am generally not big on suspensions or firings unless the statement was flagrantly racist, sexist, etc. That is, of course, a judgment call which I might agree or disagree with.

Are some people more sensitive than others? Of course! There have always been people who are more or less sensitive. People have always had the right to continue to offend people who you think are being oversensitive.  Still your choice- no freedom changes there.

I do want to point out 2 things that I think matter in a PC discussion.  1. “PC” is just a social correction (for the most part). If you grew up when I did you probably remember the freeness with which racial, gender, homophobic, ethnic slurs, were used without concern for the feelings of others. For crying out loud, I was alive at a time when it was legal to blatantly discriminate (could legally refuse to serve someone in a restaurant, hotel... had separate facilities for blacks and whites, women were openly  paid on women’s scales).  Back then, some people expressed being offended, but most of the time people just took it as life in America.  “PC” is simply a social correction.  And as such, sometimes it appears to go too far.  It is a necessary “cost” of societal change— to a society where being considerate matters and whete other perspectives can be accepted even if not always easily understood.  It’s a good thing.
 2. With all the frustration I hear about PC when incidents like this arise, I can honestly say that my own behavior hasn't been too affected .  It’s not that I never think or say things that are edgy or off-color, I do.  But I think a little more about what I say now or how I might say things, And I think that’s a good thing and  has been to my benefit as a person.  Trump’s anti-PC pushback is the antithesis of the direction I’d like to see in America.  It certainly isn’t leading us to a path of greatness but rather back toward intolerance and anger directed at those who differ from ourselves. I’ll take the occasional costs of PC gone awry over moving back in that direction. 

Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2019, 06:38:37 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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The political correctness thing doesn’t bother me. Of course it sometimes goes too far in terms of punishment for words, but I like that people might have a little more inhibition or take a little more time to think before they speak. And generally it is garbage (untrue) that you “can’t” say this or that — you can say anything you want, it’s just that there might be an unpleasant consequence for saying it.  I believe the consequence for a dumb statement or something inappropriate that slipped out or was poorly worded should be nothing more than a social consequence such as a correction or pointing out that what was said was unkind or offensive. I am generally not big on suspensions or firings unless the statement was flagrantly racist, sexist, etc. That is, of course, a judgment call which I might agree or disagree with.

Are some people more sensitive than others? Of course! There have always been people who are more or less sensitive. People have always had the right to continue to offend people who you think are being oversensitive.  Still your choice- no freedom changes there.

I do want to point out 2 things that I think matter in a PC discussion.  1. “PC” is just a social correction (for the most part). If you grew up when I did you probably remember the freeness with which racial, gender, homophobic, ethnic slurs, were used without concern for the feelings of others. For crying out loud, I was alive at a time when it was legal to blatantly discriminate (could legally refuse to serve someone in a restaurant, hotel... had separate facilities for blacks and whites, women were openly  paid on women’s scales).  Back then, some people expressed being offended, but most of the time people just took it as life in America.  “PC” is simply a social correction.  And as such, sometimes it appears to go too far.  It is a necessary “cost” of societal change— to a society where being considerate matters and whete other perspectives can be accepted even if not always easily understood.  It’s a good thing.
 2. With all the frustration I hear about PC when incidents like this arise, I can honestly say that my own behavior hasn't been too affected .  It’s not that I never think or say things that are edgy or off-color, I do.  But I think a little more about what I say now or how I might say things, And I think that’s a good thing and  has been to my benefit as a person.  Trump’s anti-PC pushback is the antithesis of the direction I’d like to see in America.  It certainly isn’t leading us to a path of greatness but rather back toward intolerance and anger directed at those who differ from ourselves. I’ll take the occasional costs of PC gone awry over moving back in that direction.

Well said.
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Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2019, 07:51:43 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I agree with what you said  Neurotic guy, stuff I was talking about it going to far is stuff like

Quote
In 2007, Santa Clauses in Sydney, Australia, were forced to revolt for the right to say “Ho Ho Ho”, the traditional laugh of jolly old St. Nick. It turns out that their employer, the recruitment firm Westaff (that supplies hundreds of Santas across Australia), told all trainees that “ho ho ho” could frighten children and be derogatory to women

Reliable’ and 'hard-working’ – surely the two keystone employers look for in an employee? Well, maybe not: a Hertfordshire recruitment agency boss was once told she could not request those qualities – Jobcentre Plus in Thetford, Norfolk, told her such an advert could be "offensive” to unreliable people.

I think the PC stuff on race is long over due as we all of one race the human race and no one should have to endure such things, but some of this other PC stuff is well, nonsense.

Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2019, 08:08:18 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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I agree with what you said  Neurotic guy, stuff I was talking about it going to far is stuff like

Quote
In 2007, Santa Clauses in Sydney, Australia, were forced to revolt for the right to say “Ho Ho Ho”, the traditional laugh of jolly old St. Nick. It turns out that their employer, the recruitment firm Westaff (that supplies hundreds of Santas across Australia), told all trainees that “ho ho ho” could frighten children and be derogatory to women

Reliable’ and 'hard-working’ – surely the two keystone employers look for in an employee? Well, maybe not: a Hertfordshire recruitment agency boss was once told she could not request those qualities – Jobcentre Plus in Thetford, Norfolk, told her such an advert could be "offensive” to unreliable people.

I think the PC stuff on race is long over due as we all of one race the human race and no one should have to endure such things, but some of this other PC stuff is well, nonsense.

I saw that - that is crazy....BUT: To some I suppose it is needed....

I simply "cannot" equate Ho Ho Ho with anything derogatory but that is me.
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Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2019, 08:24:48 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Well Richard Sherman wasn't offended and confirms the difficulty in seeing it.   

"I understand how it can be taken under a certain context and be offensive to some. But if you're saying, 'Hey, this is a brown ball, they're wearing dark colors, and he has brown arms,' honestly, we were having trouble seeing it on film. He's making the play fake and sometimes he's swinging his arm really fast. And you're like, 'Okay, does he have the ball on that play?' And you look up and (Mark) Ingram's running it.

"So it was technically a valid point, you can always phrase things better. You can always phrase things and not say, 'his black skin,' you know?"

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2865632-49ers-richard-sherman-tim-ryans-comments-on-lamar-jackson-werent-offensive?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_campaign=editorial&utm_medium=referral

His job is to speak live and extemporaneously, and he messed up this time.  He isn’t losing his job.  But he’s facing some consequences for not saying things the right way.  Even Sherman acknowledges that he said something wrong in your quoted text.
Actually Richardson said he could have worded it better and was actually wrong that "his black skin" was said.  The announcers statement that I saw quoted referred to dark football, dark skin and dark uniform. 

Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2019, 08:27:08 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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I agree with what you said  Neurotic guy, stuff I was talking about it going to far is stuff like

Quote
In 2007, Santa Clauses in Sydney, Australia, were forced to revolt for the right to say “Ho Ho Ho”, the traditional laugh of jolly old St. Nick. It turns out that their employer, the recruitment firm Westaff (that supplies hundreds of Santas across Australia), told all trainees that “ho ho ho” could frighten children and be derogatory to women

Reliable’ and 'hard-working’ – surely the two keystone employers look for in an employee? Well, maybe not: a Hertfordshire recruitment agency boss was once told she could not request those qualities – Jobcentre Plus in Thetford, Norfolk, told her such an advert could be "offensive” to unreliable people.

I think the PC stuff on race is long over due as we all of one race the human race and no one should have to endure such things, but some of this other PC stuff is well, nonsense.

I saw that - that is crazy....BUT: To some I suppose it is needed....

I simply "cannot" equate Ho Ho Ho with anything derogatory but that is me.
Unless you say it while pointing at 3 women.   :D

Re: 49ers suspend analyst. Political correctness run amok?
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2019, 11:04:15 AM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Speaking of Political Correctness...

There are two movies of mine - all-time favorites, even NOW - that wouldn't pass muster at all, today.

They are Trading Places and 48 hours.

Thankfully, there are a few channels that still play these classics (IMO) but I know they wouldn't pass muster today.

Nick Nolte and Eddie Murphy were HILARIOUS in 48 Hours...but Nick (and at times Eddie) was too raw - at least by today's standards.

I didn't take Nick as being racist in that movie - even when I was younger. Not now, even. But dude was no nonsense and was a straight shooter.

Eddie kicked his behind, though. Those two developed a close relationship as that movie progressed towards the end.
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