Author Topic: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster  (Read 10463 times)

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Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2019, 11:01:01 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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It's nice to see Danny admit what a vocal minority of posters (myself included) were arguing all last season: That the team as constructed was fundamentally flawed.

But since Danny doesn't do anything without producing a congratulatory media campaign I'm guessing this interview is much more strategically designed to promote what's about to happen this season - namely that he's going to address the Hayward problem.

Buckle up, fireworks incoming.
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Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2019, 12:04:42 PM »

Offline feckless

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The main issue was Kyrie playing selfish basketball and that rubbing off on to the other players.  The only effective house cleaning would have been to trade Our locker room spoiled brat.
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Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2019, 02:53:40 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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The main issue was Kyrie playing selfish basketball and that rubbing off on to the other players.  The only effective house cleaning would have been to trade Our locker room spoiled brat.



Look - Kyrie grew in several statistical categories...increased his assists..rebounding.

Seemed open to changing his game as Coach Stevens tried to groom him.

The damage being wrought was steady as the season wore on.

I truly believe at ONE TIME he envisioned staying in BOS...he undoubtedly WILL miss us - especially as Gordon Hayward continues his Utah Form and Jayson and JB continue to grow.

I doubt he'll have another backcourt mate like Smart - a bulldog on defense and all-around team player.

But he is in a better place right now and I personally wish him well.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 03:03:10 PM by GreenFaith1819 »

Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2019, 03:20:49 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The main issue was Kyrie playing selfish basketball and that rubbing off on to the other players.  The only effective house cleaning would have been to trade Our locker room spoiled brat.



Look - Kyrie grew in several statistical categories...increased his assists..rebounding.

Seemed open to changing his game as Coach Stevens tried to groom him.

The damage being wrought was steady as the season wore on.

I truly believe at ONE TIME he envisioned staying in BOS...he undoubtedly WILL miss us - especially as Gordon Hayward continues his Utah Form and Jayson and JB continue to grow.

I doubt he'll have another backcourt mate like Smart - a bulldog on defense and all-around team player.

But he is in a better place right now and I personally wish him well.
Some issues with this:

Unlike most, I will agree that during the regular season Kyrie played amazing basketball. All his numbers were fantastic. He earned his All-NBA status. But as well as he played, his play did freeze out some players, players that felt they deserved bigger roles.

And, in doing this, Kyrie went farther and farther away from the ball movement offensive ball Stevens wanted. This was the opposite of your claim that Kyrie was opened to being groomed by Stevens. This is Kyrie ignoring Stevens and freelancing which was confirmed through player's giving interviews after the season.

And then Kyrie took his selfishness to a new level in the playoffs, especially against Milwaukee.

And I don't think he is going to miss playing with Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Smart, or anyone else he didn't see as being on his level.

And I am not sure Kyrie will ever be happy no matter where he is....but that's a subject for a different thread that is already talking about it.

Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2019, 03:32:29 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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The main issue was Kyrie playing selfish basketball and that rubbing off on to the other players.  The only effective house cleaning would have been to trade Our locker room spoiled brat.



Look - Kyrie grew in several statistical categories...increased his assists..rebounding.

Seemed open to changing his game as Coach Stevens tried to groom him.

The damage being wrought was steady as the season wore on.

I truly believe at ONE TIME he envisioned staying in BOS...he undoubtedly WILL miss us - especially as Gordon Hayward continues his Utah Form and Jayson and JB continue to grow.

I doubt he'll have another backcourt mate like Smart - a bulldog on defense and all-around team player.

But he is in a better place right now and I personally wish him well.
Some issues with this:

Unlike most, I will agree that during the regular season Kyrie played amazing basketball. All his numbers were fantastic. He earned his All-NBA status. But as well as he played, his play did freeze out some players, players that felt they deserved bigger roles.

And, in doing this, Kyrie went farther and farther away from the ball movement offensive ball Stevens wanted. This was the opposite of your claim that Kyrie was opened to being groomed by Stevens. This is Kyrie ignoring Stevens and freelancing which was confirmed through player's giving interviews after the season.

And then Kyrie took his selfishness to a new level in the playoffs, especially against Milwaukee.

And I don't think he is going to miss playing with Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Smart, or anyone else he didn't see as being on his level.

And I am not sure Kyrie will ever be happy no matter where he is....but that's a subject for a different thread that is already talking about it.

I don't know, Nick...not doubting what you stated but I can't recall any particular time where what you stated could have occurred.....the team appeared to be up and down all season....a few winning streaks...inexplicable losses to lower teams....steamrolling Indy in the playoffs THEN winning on the road in MIL before bombing once again....

They appeared to do better in the second half of the season..then slightly dipped once again before the playoffs.....

Just a confusing season....

With what you stated I honestly can't recall one time in the season where this stuff was evidenced on the court.

Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2019, 03:45:32 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Excluding the 12 minute game from Kemba, last year Kyrie took only about 1 shot more than Kemba has taken this year.  The Celtics' pace is almost identical so it isn't like they are playing at a significantly faster pace either.  Now Kyrie definitely held the ball longer than Kemba has, but the shots are still there.  The real difference seems to Boston isn't nearly as deep this year.  Every one of the main players is generally just getting more shots because Horford, Morris, Baynes, and Rozier and their 35 shots last year were replaced with Kanter who has missed a bunch of time, Grant Williams, and then Wanamaker, R. Williams and Theis moving into a larger roles.  Those guys are good for like 10-15 additional shots, so the extra 20-25 shots have been dispersed to Tatum, Brown, Smart, and Hayward (when he played), thus giving everyone an appropriate level of shots. 

There still isn't much of a hierarchy though which could pose problematic as the season wears on when it gets harder to get baskets.
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Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2019, 04:21:03 PM »

Offline Th3M2n

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 Rozier was the cancer...

If no other move was made other than trading him it would have been a HUGE improvement

Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2019, 04:52:21 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Rozier was the cancer...

If no other move was made other than trading him it would have been a HUGE improvement

I guess he was PART of it...a decent (IMO) starting PG stuck in a backup role going into a contract season...just last year he was a part of an improbable run (along with JB, JT and Horford) that came within one game of the Finals...

Many of us cheered him on as a starter...some even thought of him as a cheaper choice than Kyrie....

Then you had JB and JT...Tatum which had IMO an INCREDIBLE season AND playoffs



JB had some good post-season games as well.

Try telling these two stallions that they must step back and follow Kyrie - while at the same time allowing Gordon Hayward valuable minutes to get HIS legs back under him. The whole GH thing slowed us down considerably in the early part last year because it was clear that he was NOT himself yet - even IF the Docs correctly claimed that he was healthy.

Then you had Morris - which even Coach Stevens stated was perhaps our most RELIABLE player....but he was YET ANOTHER mouth to feed...

Mix all that in with Danny Ainge CORRECTLY hoarding ALL this talent...dude has taken the High Road with his comments to take some of the blame off of Kyrie but TBH I would've probably did the SAME THING in hoarding this talent for Anthony Davis...

We didn't find out until later in the season that he wanted no part of BOS.......

Add all this up with Kyrie's OWN quirkyness.....undoubtedly a challenge in itself but NOT (IMO) the single point of failure here...

I have been a Boston Celtics Fan for almost 40 YEARS...and last season EASILY goes down as one of my most frustrating.

Just a LITTANNY of bad stuff.

Kemba Walker's play...having LESS mouths to feed...Marcus Smarts' defensive dominance, Gordon Hayward's return to form and this teams' newfound cohesiveness is a breath of fresh air. Wouldn't want to wish last season on ANY Basketball Fan except for The Lakers. :)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 05:11:29 PM by GreenFaith1819 »

Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2019, 05:38:02 PM »

Offline Fierce1

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Rozier was the cancer...

If no other move was made other than trading him it would have been a HUGE improvement

I agree.

Moving Rozier would've been a good move.

But to Ainge's credit, not trading Rozier ended up allowing the Celts to sign and trade Rozier.
By doing the sign and trade, Celts got the MLE instead of the room exception.
It would also have allowed the Celts to re-sign Horford if Horford wanted to return to Boston.

Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2019, 06:41:09 PM »

Offline Muzzy66

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I really feel people should cut Rozier some slack, he really did have every reason to be unhappy. 

In his last couple of years in Boston Rozier demonstrated that when given the consistent playing time he can produce at the level of a quality 2-way starting PG.  He's further proven that to be true this season, as he is averaging 17.5 pts (on 43% / 36% . 85% shooting) along with 4.1 reb and 4.4 ast for Charlotte.  Those are excellent numbers for a 24 year old PG in his first season as a starter, so the kid has clearly proven he is worthy of those minutes.   

Now imagine you are this kid - you know without question that you are capable of being a starting PG in the right situation, and yet you are stuck on a team where you're always the 3 banana behind Kyrie and Smart.  Now the year prior it probably was easier to stomach that, because even though he wasn't getting his big role, the team was winning games and overachieving, everybody was getting along, and the overall success an happiness probably made it easy to accept being stuck in a less then perfect role.  But last year was different.  The team was under-performing, guys weren't getting along, the locker room was rotten - what is there to make a guy like Rozier feel good about staying buried on a team like that when he could be somewhere else spreading his wings?   

To make matters worse it was a contract year, so his ability to get opportunities directly impacted his ability to showcase what he could do, which in turn had potential impact on the direction of the next 4 years of his life. That's a big deal. 

So all things considered, how can you blame him for being upset with all that factored in? In ihs first 3 years Rozier really ever complained, took what role he was given and took it with pride. 

To put things into perspective, I'm 35 and work in the IT industry.  My current job is far more basic technically then a number of the jobs i've worked in the past, so where I am I feel extremely limited in terms of my ability to grow.  In addition to that I'm actually losing skills, because having a more limited job is actually causing me to forget things that used go be second nature to me in the past - so the role is really holding me back.  This doesn't only impact me now, it impacts me in the future because any young person in a career is going to have aspirations to want to move up in the future, and as long as i'm in this job that's not happening.  I know I'm capable of much more then the duties i'm being given.  Now for me, it's simple.  I am not tied to a contract - I can quit any time.  Rozier can't.  He's stuck to a contract he has to honor, and if he were to try to force his way out - well, we all know how players are perceived when they do that...only stars can get away with it with some reputation in tact. So all he can do is sit there in frustration and bear it.  If I had to sit here in this job for 4 years and bear my current role, I'd be every bit as frustrated by the end of it as Rozier was. 

I'm not saying Boston was at fault for not giving him a more consistent role or making him a starter.  I'm not saying Smart or Kyrie are at fault for taking his minutes.  I don't believe that any one person was really at fault.  All I'm saying is that it was a really bad situation for Rozier, and I can totally understand his frustration.  4 years is a very long time to for a young kid trying to prove himself to be stuck in a position where you feel like you're being constantly held back and have little control over it.  People might try to claim otherwise, but I'd hazard a guess that the majority of people here would feel every bit as frustrated if they were put in his shoes and had to endure that situation for 4 long years.

As for the idea of trading Rozier - I can certainly understand why people might think that is a good idea, and it may well have been.  But it's also easy to say that in hindsight, knowing things went.  Unfortunately it wolud have been hard for Danny to make that call given Kyrie's free agent status - if Kyrie walked and Kemba decided to stay in Charlotte, Boston may not have had much choice but to re-sign Rozier for depth at the PG spot. I'm guessing Danny wanted to retain that flexibility moving forward to provide insurance against Kyrie's unpredictable mindframe.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2019, 06:47:16 PM by Muzzy66 »

Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2019, 06:55:16 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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Thanks Nick for post.

Eight ring circus last year. Smart contract. Rozier contract. Hayward return/reform/regress/rewhatever. Kyrie 20 some games in decides he's leaving + KD to Nets like it was some mystery. Morris contract. Tatum's getting traded for Davis. Brown is getting traded for Davis. Packages including half the Celtic's dancers getting traded for freaking Anthony Davis.

How can you build a team where 7 guys are leaving or getting traded?

Thank God that's over....my plan for a 78-4 season is still in play....BTW, I've finished mourning over my planned 81-1 season.

Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2019, 04:49:21 AM »

Online ozgod

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Thanks Nick for post.

Eight ring circus last year. Smart contract. Rozier contract. Hayward return/reform/regress/rewhatever. Kyrie 20 some games in decides he's leaving + KD to Nets like it was some mystery. Morris contract. Tatum's getting traded for Davis. Brown is getting traded for Davis. Packages including half the Celtic's dancers getting traded for freaking Anthony Davis.

How can you build a team where 7 guys are leaving or getting traded?

Thank God that's over....my plan for a 78-4 season is still in play....BTW, I've finished mourning over my planned 81-1 season.

It was kind of a perfect storm last year really.
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Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2019, 08:49:39 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Finally got around to watching the clip. I laughed pretty hard at the thing about Bill Walton eating "too many greens".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lvBxNFuJek
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Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2019, 09:02:36 AM »

Offline JBcat

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Here is the caveat with trading Irving, Morris, or Rozier last season.  If it wasn’t an expiring contract we took back it would have eaten into the salary space for the offseason, and we most likely wouldn’t have been able to sign Walker.  Just letting them expire along with Horford plus trading Baynes away allowed us just enough room to sign Walker.  In a roundabout way it’s like trading for Walker.

If we got an expiring contract back in deal maybe that would have worked, but then how many expiring contracts were out there teams were willing to trade that we could match salaries with that made sense?

Re: Ainge interview: Last year his fault, he should have cleaned out roster
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2019, 03:57:59 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Here is the caveat with trading Irving, Morris, or Rozier last season.  If it wasn’t an expiring contract we took back it would have eaten into the salary space for the offseason, and we most likely wouldn’t have been able to sign Walker.  Just letting them expire along with Horford plus trading Baynes away allowed us just enough room to sign Walker.  In a roundabout way it’s like trading for Walker.

If we got an expiring contract back in deal maybe that would have worked, but then how many expiring contracts were out there teams were willing to trade that we could match salaries with that made sense?
The thing is if the goal was to have cap space then Ainge shouldn't have hung on to Horford or Irving, he should have gotten value for them last year.  It is only because Ainge failed to convince Irving and Horford to stay that cap space was even an option.
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