Tatum and his contribution

[Fierce1]

Jayson Tatum's full potential is an unselfish Kobe.

Right now he's the only Celtic who can make a shot even if there's a man in front of him.

That's the mark of a superstar player.

I think it's in the playoffs where we will really see the real Jayson Tatum.

Right now Tatum is in a slump.

Imagine if he snaps out of it.

If you're never able to get yourself open, it's not the mark of a superstar. And Kemba is clearly another player who can 'make shots even if there's a man in front of him'. Kemba has made more very tightly contested (defined as a defender within 0-2 feet) and only one less tightly contested (defender within 2-4 feet), shots than Tatum. With the caveat that the NBA's defender tracking is hardly exact, but the greater point still stands.

Jaylen makes a higher percentage of very tightly contested shots and tightly contested shots than Tatum. Jaylen also made 3 more very tightly contested shots than Tatum while taking 2 less shots and made 14 less tightly contested shots while taking, get this 67 less shots from that range.

I also think Brown and Hayward can make shots or create shots with a man right in front of them. In that regard, the Celtics are lucky to have 4 guys that can do it

What actually happens on the court is what I'm basing it on.

When was the last time Brad Stevens went to Jaylen Brown for the game winning shot?

We already saw Tatum get 3 opportunities to win the game for the Celts.

Last season Kyrie went on a tantrum after Hayward gave the last shot to Tatum.

This season Tatum already hit a game winning shot against the Knicks.

Against the Kings in Boston, Brad went to Tatum again.
But Tatum missed the shot.

Jaylen is more efficient this season because he's taking less bad shots compared to last season.

Tatum on the other hand is taking more shots and forcing more shots this season.
That's why Tatum is inefficient.

Right now Tatum is also in a slump.
Once he snaps out of it, Tatum will look like a superstar.

Oh boy ignoring evidence again? From what I can see at the moment Tatum isnt really getting separation from his defenders. That is concerning and not a mark of a superstar.

What you say or I say is an opinion.

That's why I said let's base it on actual facts.

How many times this season has Brad Stevens gone to Jaylen for the last shot of the game?

This season = ZERO
Last season = ZERO

One poster said 2017-18.
That was 2 seasons ago.

I don't think Brad Stevens and Popovich are stupid coaches.

Even Popovich went with Tatum against Turkey when the game was on the line.
Tatum ended up shooting the last shot and prevented a Team USA loss by sending the game to overtime.
Brown was not even on the court at that time.

Again, the evidence is what we actually see happening on the court.

Brad Stevens is that stupid to give the ball to Tatum if Tatum doesn't have the ability to get a shot off for the win?

[Moranis]

Tatum played well.  Rest of the starters not so much.

And I know people hate +-. but at some point, people will have to start recognizing just how important Tatum is to the team.  He is the guy that is all of the best lineups and units.  He is the guy that when he leaves the game, the team falls apart.  Even when he doesn't shoot well, he is just so important to the actual team success. 

[keevsnick]

Tatum played well.  Rest of the starters not so much.

And I know people hate +-. but at some point, people will have to start recognizing just how important Tatum is to the team.  He is the guy that is all of the best lineups and units.  He is the guy that when he leaves the game, the team falls apart.  Even when he doesn't shoot well, he is just so important to the actual team success.

Tatum shot well. He had six turnovers and no assists. I refuse to say somebody "played" well with that disparity.

No over all on the season has he played well? I'd say yes, but the plus minus drastically overrates his contributions this year. My guess is Tatum is playing better than his efficiency numbers indicate, but not as well as his plus minus indicates.

[mrceltics2013]

Tatum played well.  Rest of the starters not so much.

And I know people hate +-. but at some point, people will have to start recognizing just how important Tatum is to the team.  He is the guy that is all of the best lineups and units.  He is the guy that when he leaves the game, the team falls apart.  Even when he doesn't shoot well, he is just so important to the actual team success.

He was also the guy who made many bad turnovers that the nets scored on. He’s also the guy who took some really bad shots when we were on runs. Wish people would stop overrating him.

[RJ87]

Tatum played well.  Rest of the starters not so much.

And I know people hate +-. but at some point, people will have to start recognizing just how important Tatum is to the team.  He is the guy that is all of the best lineups and units.  He is the guy that when he leaves the game, the team falls apart.  Even when he doesn't shoot well, he is just so important to the actual team success.

Tatum shot well. He had six turnovers and no assists. I refuse to say somebody "played" well with that disparity.

He forced some passes, but I think he played well overall.

[Rondo9]

Tatum played well.  Rest of the starters not so much.

And I know people hate +-. but at some point, people will have to start recognizing just how important Tatum is to the team.  He is the guy that is all of the best lineups and units.  He is the guy that when he leaves the game, the team falls apart.  Even when he doesn't shoot well, he is just so important to the actual team success.

That’s not going to sit well with people who see Tatum as the new whipping boy.

[OldSchoolDude]

I believe Tatum is still finding himself physically and refining his skill set.  While that sounds like a bad thing given he's in his third season, he is adapting to playing NBA PF.  He mostly played SF his first two years and was out muscled when he did play the 4. Tatum is getting stronger and he is playing mostly PF this year.  He played PF in college and had a physical advantage in most f his match ups.   Tatum is starting get even out physically at the PF position vs the rest of the NBA.  As he continues to get stronger he will start to gain the physical advantage he had in college.   If he can gait 20 more pounds of muscle he'll dominate at the 4 from a physical perspective like he did in college.   From a skills perspective he is learning what he can do and when to do it.   He took a lot of bad shots last year and this year he is working on taking better shots.  He is going to the rim more and learning that he can get there just about any time he wants.  I'm seeing him use the drive to open up his mid range game, while last year he tried to take tough contested mid range shots.  He is so talented he just doesn't know how to use all his skills.  Take Jaylen Browns improved finishing at the rim as he lens to use some hesitation moves, up fakes, and a very nice up and under move to get easy points in the paint.  Brown had to learn to control his speeds and mix the speed control with his moves at the right moments.  This is something Hayward is very good at and I wonder how much he influenced Browns development this year.  Tatum is still refining his game and I think he'll benefit more from studying Hayward then from studying Kobe.  Some people think the summer he spent with Kobe messed up his game.  Maybe, maybe not, but I do think he is taking better shots this year.   He is having some off shooting nights this year but I think so much is going on with his development and it is moving very fast and so some nights he is just off a little.   I heard Paul Pierce offered to work with him and I would love for that to happen.   Tatum is the franchise. 

[nickagneta]

I believe Tatum is still finding himself physically and refining his skill set.  While that sounds like a bad thing given he's in his third season, he is adapting to playing NBA PF.  He mostly played SF his first two years and was out muscled when he did play the 4. Tatum is getting stronger and he is playing mostly PF this year.  He played PF in college and had a physical advantage in most f his match ups.   Tatum is starting get even out physically at the PF position vs the rest of the NBA.  As he continues to get stronger he will start to gain the physical advantage he had in college.   If he can gait 20 more pounds of muscle he'll dominate at the 4 from a physical perspective like he did in college.   From a skills perspective he is learning what he can do and when to do it.   He took a lot of bad shots last year and this year he is working on taking better shots.  He is going to the rim more and learning that he can get there just about any time he wants.  I'm seeing him use the drive to open up his mid range game, while last year he tried to take tough contested mid range shots.  He is so talented he just doesn't know how to use all his skills.  Take Jaylen Browns improved finishing at the rim as he lens to use some hesitation moves, up fakes, and a very nice up and under move to get easy points in the paint.  Brown had to learn to control his speeds and mix the speed control with his moves at the right moments.  This is something Hayward is very good at and I wonder how much he influenced Browns development this year.  Tatum is still refining his game and I think he'll benefit more from studying Hayward then from studying Kobe.  Some people think the summer he spent with Kobe messed up his game.  Maybe, maybe not, but I do think he is taking better shots this year.   He is having some off shooting nights this year but I think so much is going on with his development and it is moving very fast and so some nights he is just off a little.   I heard Paul Pierce offered to work with him and I would love for that to happen.   Tatum is the franchise. 

Tatum isn't actually playing PF. His matchups defensively have been almost exclusively against SFs with Brown guarding the PFs.

Your point about needing to get stronger with more weight still holds and I agree he is still figuring out his body and game. But, he is consistently being put on the least physical of the SG, SF and PF opponents while Smart and Brown take the better scoring and more physical players.

Tatum is a SF and I like the fact they aren't trying to push him into playing a real PF position. Luckily the team has Smart and Brown who can cover PFs credibly if not very well.

[Vox_Populi]

Tatum played well.  Rest of the starters not so much.

And I know people hate +-. but at some point, people will have to start recognizing just how important Tatum is to the team.  He is the guy that is all of the best lineups and units.  He is the guy that when he leaves the game, the team falls apart.  Even when he doesn't shoot well, he is just so important to the actual team success.

Tatum's importance to this team is not really arguable. Same for Marcus Smart, who has regressed recently into his old inefficient habits. The only debate is if he's going to become a star and how good of one he can become.

[footey]

Tatum was awful in 1st quarter. His turnovers were poor lazy decisions and were the primary reason we dug into a deep hole.

He played really well after. A sign of maturity to dust off his slow start.