Do you think the Celtics are considering sticking with all 4 long term?

[mr. dee]

This league STOPPED revolving around big men almost a decade ago and revolves around wings now.

I don’t understand all you guys continually trying to trade our wings who are performing for a big...

It’s like your stuck in the 80s

All great big men retired more than a decade ago so that's to be expected. I expect us to have a renaissance of bigs soon with how talented the best young big men are.

The problem with modern bigs are they are not as great as current wing players as all of them have question marks. Bigs from previous generation have proven they can lead teams to championship rounds. The closest to them is Giannis and he doesn't even play like a real big. Both Jokic abd Embiid's campaign so far were underachievements too.

They can be complimentary pieces on championship teams, but not alpha leaders (Love, Green, Ibaka, Gasol)

[Somebody]

This league STOPPED revolving around big men almost a decade ago and revolves around wings now.

I don’t understand all you guys continually trying to trade our wings who are performing for a big...

It’s like your stuck in the 80s

All great big men retired more than a decade ago so that's to be expected. I expect us to have a renaissance of bigs soon with how talented the best young big men are.

The problem with modern bigs are they are not as great as current wing players as all of them have question marks. Bigs from previous generation have proven they can lead teams to championship rounds. The closest to them is Giannis and he doesn't even play like a real big. Both Jokic abd Embiid's campaign so far were underachievements too.

They can be complimentary pieces on championship teams, but not alpha leaders (Love, Green, Ibaka, Gasol)

Wew it's the winning bias at work again. The problem with the modern bigs is that they don't have supporting casts that are as great as the current wing players. Bigs from the previous generation didn't prove squat when they had bad supporting casts around them. Giannis is more of a PF imo so yeah he doesn't count. And eh I think Jokic and Embiid are doing fine, they just lost to some really good teams (that Raptors team was built to scale around one of the greatest offensive anchors ever in Kawhi, that Blazers squad had an All-NBA backcourt that was designed to take advantage of Jokic, and our very own 2018 Celtics were tailor made to stymie the 2018 76ers).

Comparing Embiid/Jokic/KAT/AD to Love, Green, Ibaka and Gasol? lol this is winning bias at its finest, you don't even need to be a stats nerd to see the gulf in quality between those two groups (although Green is an All-NBA level big man with a special skillset that scales up with talented teammates).

Btw I'm not slating you but I think your opinion is heavily influenced by factors out of a player's control, no matter how good they are.

[action781]

We're 4-1 after having played all the best teams in the East.

Gordon Hayward still isn't 100% yet, but appears to be trending towards that.

Tatum and Brown are still probably only 80% of the way to reaching their full potential.

So we have room to grow upon this 4-1 start?  Let's stick with this!

[Fierce1]

We're 4-1 after having played all the best teams in the East.

Gordon Hayward still isn't 100% yet, but appears to be trending towards that.

Tatum and Brown are still probably only 80% of the way to reaching their full potential.

So we have room to grow upon this 4-1 start?  Let's stick with this!

Agree.

Celts have until December or January to evaluate.

But eventually Ainge will have to upgrade for the playoffs.

[gpap]

I think someone from Brown, Hayward and Tatum will be used to fetch another big man.

[Fierce1]

I think someone from Brown, Hayward and Tatum will be used to fetch another big man.

That's very unlikely if the Celts continue winning games.

Brown, Hayward, Tatum, and Kemba are like Steph, Klay, KD, and Draymond.

That's 4 weapons, each having different strengths.

Celts can go after a big man worth 18m.
So there's no need to sacrifice any of the 4 key players.

[td450]

I think we find out in the next 10 games or so.

I think this can work if they continue to commit to volume shots for all four. The tell will be how many minutes go to Carsen Edwards and Enes Kanter, because those are the bench scorers who need shots to be useful. If you don't give all four 16+ shots every night, I don't think it makes sense. If you do, it will be very interesting.

[Phantom255x]

Say, Hayward ends up walking after his contract is up. Would we have enough cap space for 1 max signing, and then maybe we re-sign Tatum using Bird Rights? Would that work? Or are we going to go over anyways.

Oh and we're currently under the luxury tax, right? TP for whoever can answer any of these

[gpap]

I think someone from Brown, Hayward and Tatum will be used to fetch another big man.

That's very unlikely if the Celts continue winning games.

Brown, Hayward, Tatum, and Kemba are like Steph, Klay, KD, and Draymond.

That's 4 weapons, each having different strengths.

Celts can go after a big man worth 18m.
So there's no need to sacrifice any of the 4 key players.

And hence going after Tristan Thompson without having to give up any of Brown/Tatum/GH? Yeah, that could be another plausible scenario. Unless Ainge has something bigger in mind, but I'm not expecting anything.

[nickagneta]

Say, Hayward ends up walking after his contract is up. Would we have enough cap space for 1 max signing, and then maybe we re-sign Tatum using Bird Rights? Would that work? Or are we going to go over anyways.

Oh and we're currently under the luxury tax, right? TP for whoever can answer any of these

We are a decent amount less than the luxury tax this year.

Regarding Tatum, I am assuming rather than extending him next offseason, you wish to not give him his next contract until the year Hayward expires hoping to take advantage of some cap space.

Unfortunately, there won't be that much if any. Between Kemba, Brown, Smart, the Williams boys, Langford and Edwards there is already $87 million in salary and I believe Tatum's cap hold would be somewhere between $24-30 million. Plus you would need to take into consideration draft picks added next year plus any holds for picks or empty roster slots for that year Tatum would need to be signed.

I don't see cap space being a way to add a significant talent for many years.

[Phantom255x]

Say, Hayward ends up walking after his contract is up. Would we have enough cap space for 1 max signing, and then maybe we re-sign Tatum using Bird Rights? Would that work? Or are we going to go over anyways.

Oh and we're currently under the luxury tax, right? TP for whoever can answer any of these

We are a decent amount less than the luxury tax this year.

Regarding Tatum, I am assuming rather than extending him next offseason, you wish to not give him his next contract until the year Hayward expires hoping to take advantage of some cap space.

Unfortunately, there won't be that much if any. Between Kemba, Brown, Smart, the Williams boys, Langford and Edwards there is already $87 million in salary and I believe Tatum's cap hold would be somewhere between $24-30 million. Plus you would need to take into consideration draft picks added next year plus any holds for picks or empty roster slots for that year Tatum would need to be signed.

I don't see cap space being a way to add a significant talent for many years.

Ah okay, thanks and TP for that.

That's a bit of a bummer. Imagine #GiannisWatch or something similar 

Anyways, we'll still be good if Tatum, Brown and Williams keeps improving, plus maybe the Grizzlies pick lands something good too.

And that's good we're under the tax, meaning we don't have to worry about the "repeater" and other harsh penalties (for now) 

[keevsnick]

We're 4-1 after having played all the best teams in the East.

Gordon Hayward still isn't 100% yet, but appears to be trending towards that.

Tatum and Brown are still probably only 80% of the way to reaching their full potential.

So we have room to grow upon this 4-1 start?  Let's stick with this!

If he's not now then when will he be? Its been two years since his initial injury, over a full year since his setback.

[tazzmaniac]

This league STOPPED revolving around big men almost a decade ago and revolves around wings now.

I don’t understand all you guys continually trying to trade our wings who are performing for a big...

It’s like your stuck in the 80s

All great big men retired more than a decade ago so that's to be expected. I expect us to have a renaissance of bigs soon with how talented the best young big men are.

The problem with modern bigs are they are not as great as current wing players as all of them have question marks. Bigs from previous generation have proven they can lead teams to championship rounds. The closest to them is Giannis and he doesn't even play like a real big. Both Jokic abd Embiid's campaign so far were underachievements too.

They can be complimentary pieces on championship teams, but not alpha leaders (Love, Green, Ibaka, Gasol)

To call Jokic and Embiid underachievers is nonsense.  To do so because of championships is ridiculous.  You seem to have forgotten that: 

1) This is just Jokic's 5th playing season and Embiid's 4th playing season.  They've elevated their teams to the top rung of the league.  Especially so for Embiid.  The Sixers last winning record (43 wins) was in 2004/5.  They hadn't had consecutive 50 game winning seasons since the mid 1980s. 
2) GSW, one of the best teams of all-time, dominated the last 5 seasons winning 3 championships.  A team with first 3 and then 4 all-stars.   
3) The Cavs with one of the GOATs and two other all-stars dominated the East for the 1st 4 of those seasons. 
4) These wings who are winning championships are older established players.  Lebron, KD and Kawhi.  Kawhi got lucky to play on the Spurs with TD to win championships early.  Lebron didn't win a championship until his 9th season after joining with two other all-stars.  KD didn't win a championship until his 10th season after joining a championship team with 3 other all-stars. 

Wings have dominated for a decade because that was where the top talent was.  Who are the youngish wings that are going to take over from Lebron, KD and Kawhi and lead teams to championships?  There was a vacuum in talented bigs especially on the offensive side.  However, the modern bigs have adjusted and become more versatile and more skilled offensively.  Setting aside Giannis who is a hybrid big man, the youngish bigs in the top 15 players are quite an impressive, diverse array of talent: AD, Embiid, Jokic and Towns .  Then there are KP, Ayton, ... 

[RockinRyA]

Game has evolved. Players and coaches have found ways to exploit bigs, and found more efficient methods that I believe not every all-star bigs in the past wouldve been considered a good player nowadays if they played.

[gpap]

This league STOPPED revolving around big men almost a decade ago and revolves around wings now.

I don’t understand all you guys continually trying to trade our wings who are performing for a big...

It’s like your stuck in the 80s

This is such a fallacy, it's not even laughable. You still need at least 2 competent big men to support your wing players and vice versa. Basketball 101.