Author Topic: Kawhi vs Giannis  (Read 6609 times)

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Kawhi vs Giannis
« on: October 23, 2019, 09:57:33 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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I am not sure if we have had this thread, but who would you pick first. People Giannis gets a lot of press, but Kawhi Leonard is really good people.

I am not sure that I do not pick him over Giannis in a two team draft.

Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2019, 10:00:08 AM »

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Give me the guy who has led two franchises to titles.


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Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2019, 10:07:30 AM »

Offline bdm860

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If it's for one season right now, it's Kawhi.

If I'm building a franchise for the the long term, I'd select Giannis.

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Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2019, 10:13:51 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Whether it's right now or long term, Giannis should be the pick. The narrative of winning in sports is truly something amazing-it lead the public to view a player who posted a solid MVP caliber season in a better light than a player who posted an All-Time season by any standard except for winning a title, something that's influenced by a ton of variables out of a player's control no matter how good he is.
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Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2019, 10:18:06 AM »

Offline gpap

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Giannis (and I say that without hesitation)

He's only going to get better.

We've probably seen the best of Kawhi.

Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2019, 10:20:59 AM »

Online Moranis

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Giannis is the best player in the world.  It isn't even all that close. 
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Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2019, 10:31:37 AM »

Offline Sophomore

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Now I want to see the Clippers play the Bucks! That’s going to be fun.

Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2019, 10:37:27 AM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Giannis is the best player in the world.  It isn't even all that close.

Saying Giannis is fine, but "it isn't even all that close"...

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Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2019, 10:48:56 AM »

Offline bdm860

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Whether it's right now or long term, Giannis should be the pick. The narrative of winning in sports is truly something amazing-it lead the public to view a player who posted a solid MVP caliber season in a better light than a player who posted an All-Time season by any standard except for winning a title, something that's influenced by a ton of variables out of a player's control no matter how good he is.

I don't think that's what's going on.  We saw them go head to head.  For 6 Games.  Kawhi was better (and supposedly injured).  It wasn't like the Warriors beating LeBron.  Giannis was contained when it mattered.  Kawhi was not.

You give me 2 identical teams.  Put Giannis on one, Kawhi on the other, and have them face off in a playoff series.  My money, this year, is on Kawhi's team.


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Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2019, 11:11:15 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Whether it's right now or long term, Giannis should be the pick. The narrative of winning in sports is truly something amazing-it lead the public to view a player who posted a solid MVP caliber season in a better light than a player who posted an All-Time season by any standard except for winning a title, something that's influenced by a ton of variables out of a player's control no matter how good he is.

I don't think that's what's going on.  We saw them go head to head.  For 6 Games.  Kawhi was better (and supposedly injured).  It wasn't like the Warriors beating LeBron.  Giannis was contained when it mattered.  Kawhi was not.

You give me 2 identical teams.  Put Giannis on one, Kawhi on the other, and have them face off in a playoff series.  My money, this year, is on Kawhi's team.
I disagree with your take. Seeing two players go head to head doesn't mean that they're facing off one on one-it's a team game, and there are a multitude of factors that influence a game's outcome which are out of a player's control. Kawhi didn't one-sidedly outplay Giannis throughout the series even when you just look at the box score (impact metrics had them washing out each other iirc if you're a huge stat geek), and Kawhi had a better supporting cast as well as a defensive system that was solely designed to contain Giannis. As for the injury, I don't think it was a major issue, everyone plays injured in the playoffs and Kawhi ground out every game without a huge loss in athleticism compared to what he showed when he was healthy.

Team building doesn't work by simply adding two different players on identical teams, you need a team that fits the superstar you're building around to maximise the player's potential in providing lift to the team. If you give me two teams with different personnel that fit well around Kawhi and Giannis but are roughly the same strength I'd take Giannis' team, the skills he provides are incredibly unique while Kawhi is more of a classic high efficiency volume scorer with relatively poor passing and creation compared to other perimeter engines. Kawhi's more King/Dirk/Gervin on offense than MJ/Bron/Kobe/Wade.
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Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2019, 11:12:38 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Giannis is the best player in the world.  It isn't even all that close.
I'm honestly surprised that you picked Giannis, I always thought you were more partial to narratives in sports lol.
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Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2019, 11:53:17 AM »

Offline footey

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Giannis is the best player in the world.  It isn't even all that close.

...in the regular season.

Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2019, 12:25:30 PM »

Online Moranis

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Whether it's right now or long term, Giannis should be the pick. The narrative of winning in sports is truly something amazing-it lead the public to view a player who posted a solid MVP caliber season in a better light than a player who posted an All-Time season by any standard except for winning a title, something that's influenced by a ton of variables out of a player's control no matter how good he is.

I don't think that's what's going on.  We saw them go head to head.  For 6 Games.  Kawhi was better (and supposedly injured).  It wasn't like the Warriors beating LeBron.  Giannis was contained when it mattered.  Kawhi was not.

You give me 2 identical teams.  Put Giannis on one, Kawhi on the other, and have them face off in a playoff series.  My money, this year, is on Kawhi's team.
The narrative that Kawhi was so much better than Giannis in that series just isn't borne out in reality.  Giannis was awful scoring the ball in game 3 (though he did have 23 rebounds and 7 assists), but other than that Giannis scored at least 21 points in the other 5 games in the series.  He had at least 4 assists in every game, blocked multiple shots in all but game 5 which was also the only game he didn't have at least 10 rebounds.  Giannis out-rebounded, out-assisted, and out-blocked Leonard, while Leonard scored more and was the better steal generator.  And let's be clear, Leonard scored more pretty much exclusively because he is a better foul shooter and was a significantly better foul shooter in that series.  They shot almost identically from the field, but Leonard was 54-61 from the line while Giannis was an awful 35-60 (which was a good deal worse than the regular season). 

Even on the court on the scoreboard they were nearly identical as Giannis was a + overall in the series (+10) and only had 2 - games in the series (-19 in game 4 and -2 in game 5).  Leonard was only +13 in the series and like Giannis has 2 - games (the 2 losses at -4 and -19).

I think there are real arguments that Giannis was better than Leonard in the series.  The Bucks were not better than the Raptors though, and that is really all that matters.  The reason the Bucks lost was not Giannis it was Middleton, Brogdon, Bledsoe, Mirotic, and Ilyasova forgetting how to shoot the ball in games 3-6 of that series.  If even just a couple of those players hit their normal percentages, the Bucks win that series and no one is having this discussion at all, because Giannis is just flat out better than Leonard.  And I legitimately don't think it is all that close.
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Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2019, 12:29:31 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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If my goal is to win a title this year and I already have a solid playoff caliber team with no obvious weaknesses apart from a lack of crunch time scoring, give me Kawhi all day.

If I'm starting a team from scratch and I want to be in contention for the foreseeable future, my answer is Giannis without question.
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Re: Kawhi vs Giannis
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2019, 12:30:52 PM »

Online Moranis

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Giannis is the best player in the world.  It isn't even all that close.
I'm honestly surprised that you picked Giannis, I always thought you were more partial to narratives in sports lol.
I've been saying since before last year even started that Giannis was the best player in the world.  I had him 4th the summer before that (behind LBJ, Durant, and Curry) and took immense heat for it (though it pretty much bore out that way).  Giannis is a monster.  The most unique player I've ever seen.  With Durant getting injured, I legitimately don't think it is even close.  Giannis is the best player in the world.  He is young, he is healthy.  I pick him 100 times out of 100 and don't give it a second thought.
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