Author Topic: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M  (Read 9264 times)

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Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #105 on: October 17, 2019, 07:21:36 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Hindsight is always 20/20.

It's not like Ainge didn't try to hold on to Doc.
In fact, the Celts asked for a draft pick from the Clips because they stole Doc from the Celts.

And IT was traded because he was damaged goods.

Ainge would not have traded IT if IT was healthy.

Also, we already saw evidence from last season that part of the Celtics problem was Brad giving Hayward special treatment.
That already gives you a preview of the Brad-Hayward relationship.

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but this narrative has always bothered me. I get that Hayward was coming off of a major injury, but he was hardly given special treatment. Any coach of any team that had signed a max FA entering his prime would give that player some level of preference and let them ease back in with heavy rotation minutes. It has a lot more to do with Rozier and Morris(?) being babies than with this special Stevens/Hayward bond.
The narrative that Hayward wasn't given any special treatment has always bothered me. You don't rock the boat by starting a wing player whose confidence was down due to a gruesome ankle injury over running back the starting 5 that led your team to the ECF, even if the wing in question is a star. You let him slowly regain his verve by coming off the bench and feasting on opposing bench units. This will take off a lot of the pressure surrounding the player as well, ntm him coming off the bench would bolster our second unit. It was absolutely Hayward receiving the golden boy treatment.
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Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #106 on: October 17, 2019, 09:23:51 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Quote
Chris Forsberg
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Danny Ainge tells @Toucherandrich that the Celtics have made multiple offers to Jaylen Brown and feels good about where negotiations are in advance of Monday’s extension deadline.
9:08 AM · Oct 17, 2019

Interpret “feels good about where negotiations are” in your own manner.  It could mean anything from “we’re close, and this will get done” to “no chance were signing him and I’m good with that.”

Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #107 on: October 17, 2019, 10:00:27 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Quote
Chris Forsberg
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Danny Ainge tells @Toucherandrich that the Celtics have made multiple offers to Jaylen Brown and feels good about where negotiations are in advance of Monday’s extension deadline.
9:08 AM · Oct 17, 2019

Interpret “feels good about where negotiations are” in your own manner.  It could mean anything from “we’re close, and this will get done” to “no chance were signing him and I’m good with that.”

It's just a catch-all for "we're pleased with <insert whatever thing actually happens>"

I think they probably don't get it done, $20 million per has gotta be at least $5 short of what he'd take, which seems like a lot. And Danny is not known for doling out player friendly extensions to rookie contract guys.

Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #108 on: October 17, 2019, 10:03:11 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Quote
Chris Forsberg
@ChrisForsberg_
Danny Ainge tells @Toucherandrich that the Celtics have made multiple offers to Jaylen Brown and feels good about where negotiations are in advance of Monday’s extension deadline.
9:08 AM · Oct 17, 2019

Interpret “feels good about where negotiations are” in your own manner.  It could mean anything from “we’re close, and this will get done” to “no chance were signing him and I’m good with that.”

It's just a catch-all for "we're pleased with <insert whatever thing actually happens>"

I think they probably don't get it done, $20 million per has gotta be at least $5 short of what he'd take, which seems like a lot. And Danny is not known for doling out player friendly extensions to rookie contract guys.

My guess is they have an offer on the table at more than 80/4. If they have made Multiple offers I doubt 80/4 was the best of those offers. Still I agree,  probably doesn't get done. If Marcus Smart, who is the heart and soul of the team, has to wait them Brown probably does too.

For what its worth Ainge called the 80/4 report "not accurate." Of course if it was 80.5/4 that would technically make 80/4 "not accurate."

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/danny-ainge-clarifies-not-accurate-report-jaylen-brown-extension-talks
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 10:15:47 AM by keevsnick »

Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #109 on: October 17, 2019, 10:49:02 AM »

Offline Big333223

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Seems like a fair offer. Based strictly on past performance, it would even be an overpay. $20 mil a year for 13-14 ppg and 4-5 rpg? He's a very versatile defender but even with today's NBA money, that $20 mil feels like an assumption that Brown is going to keep improving (in the ways he appears to have already improved in preseason).

I like Brown and I love the idea of homegrown talent. I hope he stays. But I think we're all talking about his contract with the idea that he will keep getting better. He's going to have to actually do that.
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Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #110 on: October 17, 2019, 10:50:37 AM »

Offline gpap

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Though it's quite possible they lock up Jaylen prior to Monday's deadline, it's quite possible Ainge is playing poker as well and knows that there's a good chance no extension happens

This seems like one of those scenarios where Ainge can say "well, we tried to extend him but he turned us down" and then deals Jaylen at the trade deadline for a power forward.

I get the feeling out of Tatum, Hayward and Brown, that Brown is most likely to be the odd man out.

But, of course that's speculation on my part. I just can't fathom the Celts are going to lock up 3 small forwards to long-term deals. If that happens, the Celts have no flexibility moving forward and tons of cap space tied up to the same position. The tallest guy on the court is going to be the ref.

Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #111 on: October 17, 2019, 10:53:08 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Seems like a fair offer. Based strictly on past performance, it would even be an overpay. $20 mil a year for 13-14 ppg and 4-5 rpg? He's a very versatile defender but even with today's NBA money, that $20 mil feels like an assumption that Brown is going to keep improving (in the ways he appears to have already improved in preseason).

I like Brown and I love the idea of homegrown talent. I hope he stays. But I think we're all talking about his contract with the idea that he will keep getting better. He's going to have to actually do that.

Harrison Barnes average 14.5 and 5.5 rebounds a game on 34 minutes a game (more or less what Jaylen did). He's not as good defensively and doesn't have Jaylen's upside at 27 years of age. He got 85/4. thats just where prices are now.

Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #112 on: October 17, 2019, 10:57:07 AM »

Offline Fierce1

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Seems like a fair offer. Based strictly on past performance, it would even be an overpay. $20 mil a year for 13-14 ppg and 4-5 rpg? He's a very versatile defender but even with today's NBA money, that $20 mil feels like an assumption that Brown is going to keep improving (in the ways he appears to have already improved in preseason).

I like Brown and I love the idea of homegrown talent. I hope he stays. But I think we're all talking about his contract with the idea that he will keep getting better. He's going to have to actually do that.

Harrison Barnes average 14.5 and 5.5 rebounds a game on 34 minutes a game (more or less what Jaylen did). He's not as good defensively and doesn't have Jaylen's upside at 27 years of age. He got 85/4. thats just where prices are now.

But Barnes averaged 18-19 points per game when he was with Dallas.

Only reason why Barnes' scoring dipped last season was because he was traded mid-season.

Barnes was averaging 17.7 ppg before he got traded to the Kings.

Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #113 on: October 17, 2019, 11:05:08 AM »

Offline bdm860

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From my more than 30 years of watching the Celts and the NBA, I have never seen a team give a player averaging 13-14 points per game 30m per year.

It's just not practical.

Otto Porter says helllo.

Not quite $30m. but the max at the time.  And while WAS may not be the model franchise to compare oneself to, they also had to give Porter the max if they wanted to keep him because he was a restricted free agent and signed a max offer sheet with the Nets.

Not saying Jaylen's worth the max, just pointing out an example.

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Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #114 on: October 17, 2019, 11:08:23 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Seems like a fair offer. Based strictly on past performance, it would even be an overpay. $20 mil a year for 13-14 ppg and 4-5 rpg? He's a very versatile defender but even with today's NBA money, that $20 mil feels like an assumption that Brown is going to keep improving (in the ways he appears to have already improved in preseason).

I like Brown and I love the idea of homegrown talent. I hope he stays. But I think we're all talking about his contract with the idea that he will keep getting better. He's going to have to actually do that.

Harrison Barnes average 14.5 and 5.5 rebounds a game on 34 minutes a game (more or less what Jaylen did). He's not as good defensively and doesn't have Jaylen's upside at 27 years of age. He got 85/4. thats just where prices are now.

But Barnes averaged 18-19 points per game when he was with Dallas.

Only reason why Barnes' scoring dipped last season was because he was traded mid-season.

Barnes was averaging 17.7 ppg before he got traded to the Kings.

Ya, but his time with the Kings is more analogous to Brown situation where Barnes was farther down the option list on Sacramento. His 17.7 ppg in Dal was in 14.6 shots on a 53.8% TS%. His Sac stats were 14.3 ppg on 11.1 shots a game with a much better TS of 57.8%.  Jaylen's 13.0pg was on 10.7 shots a game and a TS% of 54.7% (same TS% as Jayson Tatum btw). By comparison Jaylen's playoff run was 18ppg on 14.8 shots a game at 56.4 TS% (and thats with a game he left early injured), that was the last time he was really a featured guy and probably most comparable with Barnes Dallas time. So yeah, Jaylen Brown is a comparable offensive player, much better defensively at a younger age player then Harriosn Barnes.

Like lets not pretend that if you just swapped out Jaylen and Harrison Barnes on that Dallas team that Jaylen wouldn't score 17ppg on below average efficiency.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 11:15:31 AM by keevsnick »

Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #115 on: October 17, 2019, 11:20:25 AM »

Offline johnnygreen

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If Jaylen does end up signing an extension, when would that extension salary actually kick in? Would it kick in next season, or does Jaylen play next season under the qualifying offer salary? I’m curious now, as having a $20-25M salary can be a very useful trade chip for Danny to help land a big man the Celtics need. After all, the Celtics will seemingly be over the cap with no chance to bring in another max free agent for the foreseeable future. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if Jaylen does sign an extension soon, it will turn into a poison pill contract, which is very difficult to trade until the extension starts.

Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #116 on: October 17, 2019, 11:26:39 AM »

Offline saltlover

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If Jaylen does end up signing an extension, when would that extension salary actually kick in? Would it kick in next season, or does Jaylen play next season under the qualifying offer salary? I’m curious now, as having a $20-25M salary can be a very useful trade chip for Danny to help land a big man the Celtics need. After all, the Celtics will seemingly be over the cap with no chance to bring in another max free agent for the foreseeable future. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if Jaylen does sign an extension soon, it will turn into a poison pill contract, which is very difficult to trade until the extension starts.

It would kick in next season.  He could not be traded until after the season because he is not allowed to be traded for six months, which takes him beyond the trade deadline.  A draft night trade would be subject to the poison pill if executed before July 1st, you’re correct.  However, it is very common for trades agreed to in June to be executed in July, by which time the poison pill would have passed.

Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #117 on: October 17, 2019, 11:47:11 AM »

Offline jambr380

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Hindsight is always 20/20.

It's not like Ainge didn't try to hold on to Doc.
In fact, the Celts asked for a draft pick from the Clips because they stole Doc from the Celts.

And IT was traded because he was damaged goods.

Ainge would not have traded IT if IT was healthy.

Also, we already saw evidence from last season that part of the Celtics problem was Brad giving Hayward special treatment.
That already gives you a preview of the Brad-Hayward relationship.

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but this narrative has always bothered me. I get that Hayward was coming off of a major injury, but he was hardly given special treatment. Any coach of any team that had signed a max FA entering his prime would give that player some level of preference and let them ease back in with heavy rotation minutes. It has a lot more to do with Rozier and Morris(?) being babies than with this special Stevens/Hayward bond.
The narrative that Hayward wasn't given any special treatment has always bothered me. You don't rock the boat by starting a wing player whose confidence was down due to a gruesome ankle injury over running back the starting 5 that led your team to the ECF, even if the wing in question is a star. You let him slowly regain his verve by coming off the bench and feasting on opposing bench units. This will take off a lot of the pressure surrounding the player as well, ntm him coming off the bench would bolster our second unit. It was absolutely Hayward receiving the golden boy treatment.

Lol - yeah, we should have rolled into the season with a Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Morris, Horford line-up. That is after all the line-up that took us to game 7 of the ECF.

You just don't know what you're talking about here. Hayward was cleared to play at the start of the season. Even if he wasn't at his peak, any coach would give him the 'golden boy' treatment. He was a sought after in his prime max FA. Before his injury he was 1a/1b with Irving. That's just how it works.

Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #118 on: October 17, 2019, 11:57:14 AM »

Offline tonydelk

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Honestly, I think it was  a fair offer, Brown is not a max player.

This is tough.  I think that 25 per year should get it done so I'm sure the C's started at 20 so he asks for 25.  If they started at 25 he'd ask for 30.  The climate of FA next year is not great.  Teams overpay for talent when that's all that available.  If Jaylen is the best FA available some team is going to offer him a lot of money.  Their thinking is they get a young guy improving that could be a start or they make the C's match and pay a ton of money so the C's are not players in FA for years.  Until I see Jaylen play this year I don't think he's more then a 20m dollar player.  If he blows up and turns into Kawai Leonard then the C's will have to pay a lot.  From what we have seen he will be somewhere in between and command 25+ per year.  Now if the Salary cap goes down next year because of the China issues then that's a whole different economic landscape to deal with.

Re: Jaylen Brown was offered 4 years $80M
« Reply #119 on: October 17, 2019, 12:41:06 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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Hindsight is always 20/20.

It's not like Ainge didn't try to hold on to Doc.
In fact, the Celts asked for a draft pick from the Clips because they stole Doc from the Celts.

And IT was traded because he was damaged goods.

Ainge would not have traded IT if IT was healthy.

Also, we already saw evidence from last season that part of the Celtics problem was Brad giving Hayward special treatment.
That already gives you a preview of the Brad-Hayward relationship.

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but this narrative has always bothered me. I get that Hayward was coming off of a major injury, but he was hardly given special treatment. Any coach of any team that had signed a max FA entering his prime would give that player some level of preference and let them ease back in with heavy rotation minutes. It has a lot more to do with Rozier and Morris(?) being babies than with this special Stevens/Hayward bond.
The narrative that Hayward wasn't given any special treatment has always bothered me. You don't rock the boat by starting a wing player whose confidence was down due to a gruesome ankle injury over running back the starting 5 that led your team to the ECF, even if the wing in question is a star. You let him slowly regain his verve by coming off the bench and feasting on opposing bench units. This will take off a lot of the pressure surrounding the player as well, ntm him coming off the bench would bolster our second unit. It was absolutely Hayward receiving the golden boy treatment.

Lol - yeah, we should have rolled into the season with a Rozier, Brown, Tatum, Morris, Horford line-up. That is after all the line-up that took us to game 7 of the ECF.

You just don't know what you're talking about here. Hayward was cleared to play at the start of the season. Even if he wasn't at his peak, any coach would give him the 'golden boy' treatment. He was a sought after in his prime max FA. Before his injury he was 1a/1b with Irving. That's just how it works.

   I would have had Hayward start the season off the bench as well. Brad has started Tayshaun Prince, jammer nelson over guys we hoped to develop. He’s been about earning the minutes even at expense of the future. Just like people give Brad credit for that team he should ( IMO) showed more respect for what those guys brought. I’m going in the assumption that at that point in Hayward’s recovery/ journey back whatever ... he wasn’t beating the other starters.
  Brad was always about this .. and then Gordon was handled differently. Gordon isn’t crazy like Kyrie. Brad could have started Baynes or Morris, yes. I personally would have hoped for Baynes.
  Either way, it’s an opinion so no need to tell someone they don’t know what they’re talking about or laugh at their opinion.