Does Hayward returning to form even matter?

[GRADYCOLNON]

The team is flawed and raw that is already unreasonable to suggest this a competitive season, not to taking away any general enjoyment of watching, as the projections have this team at around .500. Where does that lead us on rebuilding?

Let's take stock of what this team does have.  A future star forward in Tatum.  A talented, scoring point guard, in Kemba, who is in the middle of his prime.  A super-athlete on the wing in Brown. A veteran forward trying to return to former glory in Hayward.  A heart and soul in Smart. Cheap veteran bigs on short term contracts in Kanter and Theis.  Lots of young players and rookies.  Draft picks.  Kanter and the young players strike me as expendable as of this moment; useful to develop into desirable assets.  Excluding the guaranteed to be here, the big names that come up are Brown and Hayward.  Brown is a simpler case. If he plays well, he gets paid because he is talented.  If he underperforms, he is still valuable despite a lesser salary figure, which still gives the Celtics value.

This leaves Hayward and my initial question.  With Tatum hopefully taking the lead and Brown breaking out, where does Hayward fit? 

Returning his success helps the Celtics this season win more games, and it helps his value.  However, his success could eat into Brown and Tatum's development.  Something the Celtics want to avoid impeding.

After watching the first preseason game, I noticed the same passivity issues seemed to plague that first unit as it did last year.  Until now, I contributed this to selfish intentions, but it seems the passivity Gordon adds is what settles stagnates the offense to take out of rhythm jumpers.  A sharp contrast to his success in the past in which he was aggressive and the focal point. I realized he is no longer be a focal point on the Celtics. He could only regain that elsewhere. 

Also, Hayward's player option is expected to dictate the remainder of his tenure with the Celtics. Any serious improvement will simulate that he can command the big money in free agency leading him to opt-out this summer. 

Why would he opt-in?  A poor season or his market still depressed would make it more sensible for him to stay another season.

Either way, the Celtics' future direction comes down to Brown or Hayward as one has to leave.  Brown can only be traded this season.  Hayward has the potential flexibility to be moved this season or the next, depending on his player option status. I think Hayward is a better trade option. His large expiring contract pairs well with picks and rookie contracts other teams covet when starting rebuilds. Unlike Hayward's contracts. Brown's small rookie scale deal would require adding other value contracts, like Smart, and other assets to make a competitive offer for a max contract player.

But this only makes sense if Hayward opts into his deal.  There are likely going to be bigger fish to fry after this season when small markets get antsy about their star leaving for nothing. So with this season likely to be a wash, finding the next guy seems to be Ainge's next idea. Hayward not being as successful this season may make his job easier while benefitting our young guys with better growth.

[bellerephon]

I suppose it depends on what your hopes and expectations are. If you are one of those who think that anything less than a championship season is a failure, then I suppose this point of view makes sense. Even if Hayward returns to form it is unlikely the Celts will be championship contenders.

But I enjoy watching good basketball. The Celts will be much better and more fun to watch if Hayward is good. They have a chance to be a top 3 team in the east and make some noise in the playoffs if he is 100 percent. It will also make the environment around the team better and healthier which is good for the development of the young guys.

I suppose that's a long way of saying that IMHO it does matter.

[gouki88]

If Hayward does return to form we don't project as anything close to a .500 team

[footey]

I disagree with your description of the first game and Hayward’s performance.

[nickagneta]

I disagree with your description of the first game and Hayward’s performance.

Yeah, I thought the ball moved pretty good, that there wasn't a ton of forced shots or relying solely on the three. People's offense, for the most part came within the flow of the offense. At least in the first half.

And Hayward did look like he was moving much better and appeared to attempt to get a good balance of looking for his and trying to set up others. I was encouraged.

[Rosco917]

"Tatum hopefully taking the lead and Brown breaking out"

Oh baby, if only that were true. But that alone does not guarantee you of a trip to the finals. Team Chemistry and depth is what brings you to the promised land. And you don't have team Chemistry and depth without ball movement, facilitators, and players with high basketball IQ's.

The reason why LeBron is still such a dangerous player is his knowledge of the game, his BB IQ is super, and his ability to make players around him better...that happens from passing the ball and seeing the floor. 

Neither Tatum or Brown have demonstrated such talent as of yet. Taking turns going one on one will only bring you so far. 

[SHAQATTACK]

They that mattered ...have left Boston .....not sure it matters about Gordon one way or the other now 

I think Danny is going to regret his off season choices .

I just got a bad feeling alot people gonna be major disappointed by seasons end..

[nickagneta]

I just got a bad feeling alot people gonna be major disappointed by seasons end..

I said much the same thing in the "Guess how many wins for the Celtics next season" thread. I thought 47 was about the right number. Vegas has them at 47.5 wins. So, so, so many people were selecting low to mid 50 wins. I said then that I thought a lot of people were going to be really disappointed when the Celtics are not in the 52-56 wins range.

[droopdog7]

I think that peak Hayward, or even this Hayward will be better than Brown ever will be.  So hitching your wagon to a Tatum-Brown combo I think will leave you disappointed. 

As for the first game, I thought Hayward looked much more explosive.  So yes, I think it matters if he returns to form because I want to enjoy Celtic basketball.

[liam]

It matters. Remember when Golden Star was a lock for the 2019 Championship and everyone was playing for second? You have to play the games.

[GRADYCOLNON]

I like the input you guys.  I'm not title or bust.  But in terms of creating the next window to compete, this season is a step back.  I will thoroughly enjoy watching this season, especially if they can lay off the lulls of settling for long jumpers. Yes, it may be interesting playoff run and the Celtics could shake things up.  Hayward definitely can help this team to be successful if he plays well right away.

The main reason why I bring this idea up is the timeline that Ainge is using to work his decisions.  The worse Hayward plays, the more likely he is an expiring next season because he'll pick up his option.  This bodes well for Ainge making a big-time deal to add ideally a big to a Tatum-Walker core.  I expect the chance big names to potentially free up this season is less than the next season. 

The better Hayward does, the more likely he opts out and asks for another 3+1 Max deal (a la Horford).  I can't honestly see the Celtics paying him if they know this current core is missing that 'horford' player that cements the team together.

So in the end, I would prefer the extra success went to Brown because I think 2020/21 is a better opportunity to add superior talent than selling this season.

[GRADYCOLNON]

I disagree with your description of the first game and Hayward’s performance.

Yeah, I thought the ball moved pretty good, that there wasn't a ton of forced shots or relying solely on the three. People's offense, for the most part came within the flow of the offense. At least in the first half.

And Hayward did look like he was moving much better and appeared to attempt to get a good balance of looking for his and trying to set up others. I was encouraged.

The second half first unit play was atrocious.  It appeared to me that Hayward's passivity was a contagion.  Maybe I had my observations wrong and it was Tatum's fault.  But I said to myself, Tatum's job is to shoot when open. When Hayward doesn't shoot in rhythm or take it all the way to the hoop, the offense doesn't advance. It retreats to these shooting lulls (the Celtics went down double digits during that Hornets run).  Unless he is truly aggressive the team seems to follow his lead.  This is a stark difference to how he was successful at Butler and Utah. Then he attacked and demanded the whole defenses attention and the ball moved with purpose.  I'm still waiting to see that from him in a Celtics uniform.

[Celtics4ever]

I think Hayward returning to form matters a lot for us.  He can create offense, defend and shoot and that always helps.   

The second half first unit play was atrocious.  It appeared to me that Hayward's passivity was a contagiom.   Maybe I had my observations wrong and it was Tatum's fault.  But I said to myself, Tatum's job is to shoot when open. When Hayward doesn't shoot in rhythm or take it all the way to the hoop, the offense doesn't advance.

You do realize that he was hurt at the end of first half and did not play in the second half.   

Hayward was shown getting treatment on his left elbow in the second half of Boston’s 107-106 win over the Charlotte Hornets, and did not play the rest of the way. He isn’t sure when the injury occurred, but it happened sometime in the first half. He did not alert the Boston medical staff until the second half, thinking the stiffness would go away.

“He said he got hit in the first half, didn’t say anything until after halftime when we went out,” explained head coach Brad Stevens. “It doesn’t seem like anything big. They thought it was a bruised elbow at first. I’m sure we’ll go through everything and check it out.

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/10/07/celtics-gordon-hayward-dealing-with-minor-elbow-injury/

Suggestion, go find another person to blame and I find it humorous that your blaming bad second half play on a guy that was sitting out.  No wonder he was passive, it is hard to be aggressive when your on the bench getting treatment, go figure.

It is preseason, these games do not matter and starters are going to have a hard time getting into playing rhythm with 25 minute cap.  The Sky isn't falling.

[ozgod]

I think it totally matters. It's a team sport. If he is able to make his teammates better that will only be to both Jaylen and Jayson's benefit. It's not a zero sum where if Hayward plays well Jaylen or Jayson won't. Hayward is a team oriented player and unselfish (sometimes excessively so). Hayward playing well should have an amplifying effect on the team.

Also if you look at the game thread most of the observations were that Hayward was much more aggressive than last year. In fact his first couple of possessions he attacked the basket, the first time to set up Timelord for an alley oop and the second he scored on a reverse layup. Sometime in the second half he knocked his elbow and was held out of the rest of the game. Our good play in the first quarter had a lot to do with Hayward. So yes we need him to return to form. In fact, the hope is he is able to become that Horford type playmaker that makes it all happen for the team.

[dannyboy35]

The team is flawed and raw that is already unreasonable to suggest this a competitive season, not to taking away any general enjoyment of watching, as the projections have this team at around .500. Where does that lead us on rebuilding?

Let's take stock of what this team does have.  A future star forward in Tatum.  A talented, scoring point guard, in Kemba, who is in the middle of his prime.  A super-athlete on the wing in Brown. A veteran forward trying to return to former glory in Hayward.  A heart and soul in Smart. Cheap veteran bigs on short term contracts in Kanter and Theis.  Lots of young players and rookies.  Draft picks.  Kanter and the young players strike me as expendable as of this moment; useful to develop into desirable assets.  Excluding the guaranteed to be here, the big names that come up are Brown and Hayward.  Brown is a simpler case. If he plays well, he gets paid because he is talented.  If he underperforms, he is still valuable despite a lesser salary figure, which still gives the Celtics value.

This leaves Hayward and my initial question.  With Tatum hopefully taking the lead and Brown breaking out, where does Hayward fit? 

Returning his success helps the Celtics this season win more games, and it helps his value.  However, his success could eat into Brown and Tatum's development.  Something the Celtics want to avoid impeding.

After watching the first preseason game, I noticed the same passivity issues seemed to plague that first unit as it did last year.  Until now, I contributed this to selfish intentions, but it seems the passivity Gordon adds is what settles stagnates the offense to take out of rhythm jumpers.  A sharp contrast to his success in the past in which he was aggressive and the focal point. I realized he is no longer be a focal point on the Celtics. He could only regain that elsewhere. 

Also, Hayward's player option is expected to dictate the remainder of his tenure with the Celtics. Any serious improvement will simulate that he can command the big money in free agency leading him to opt-out this summer. 

Why would he opt-in?  A poor season or his market still depressed would make it more sensible for him to stay another season.

Either way, the Celtics' future direction comes down to Brown or Hayward as one has to leave.  Brown can only be traded this season.  Hayward has the potential flexibility to be moved this season or the next, depending on his player option status. I think Hayward is a better trade option. His large expiring contract pairs well with picks and rookie contracts other teams covet when starting rebuilds. Unlike Hayward's contracts. Brown's small rookie scale deal would require adding other value contracts, like Smart, and other assets to make a competitive offer for a max contract player.

But this only makes sense if Hayward opts into his deal.  There are likely going to be bigger fish to fry after this season when small markets get antsy about their star leaving for nothing. So with this season likely to be a wash, finding the next guy seems to be Ainge's next idea. Hayward not being as successful this season may make his job easier while benefitting our young guys with better growth.

  I think Hayward is such a vastly superior player I don’t think Tatum SHOULD take the lead and I don’t believe Brown can bust out under Stevens. I want a different coach to come in and be the boss and delegate clear roles.