Happy we kept our picks and took it slow With Robert Williams

[Donoghus]

I am not sold on Williams potential. hoping for the Best, but i would not be too surprised if he ends up like old friend JaJuan

He has already surpassed Jajuan.

That's not exactly saying much.

I think the jury is still very much out on Robert Williams.  I'm rooting for the kid but my expectations are pretty tempered.  I know fans are excited at the potential but the coaching staff is seeing this kid day in & day out and, so far, it doesn't seem like they're seeing what the fans hope to see.

[Ogaju]

I am not sold on Williams potential. hoping for the Best, but i would not be too surprised if he ends up like old friend JaJuan

He has already surpassed Jajuan.

That's not exactly saying much.

I think the jury is still very much out on Robert Williams.  I'm rooting for the kid but my expectations are pretty tempered.  I know fans are excited at the potential but the coaching staff is seeing this kid day in & day out and, so far, it doesn't seem like they're seeing what the fans hope to see.

The point was not how good he is,  but how bad Jajuan was.

[tonydelk]

I am very excited for our young guys this year.  I don't normally get excited for all of our prospects but I am excited for Williams and the guys this year. 

As for Williams I don't ever expect him to be a 30MPG starter in this league.  I expect by next year an elite defensive presence who plays 20 - 24 MPG.  No offense outside of lobs and put backs but if the effort is there he is going to be an elite defender.  His lack of hitting free throws and being able to hit an outside shot will absolutely cap his ceiling.  I'm ok with that.   I'm ok with having a guy to battle Embiid, Gasol types.  Someone to protect our guards if they get beat and someone who anytime someone drives to the hole they are aware RW is lurking to swat it away.  Changing a shot is sometimes as good or better then blocking it. 

If Robert can switch on the PNR and move his feet well we have a big asset.  I just don't see a guy who is ever going to be a good offensive player outside of the paint and I'm ok with that.  He can average 10ppg just off lobs and ORB and will never require the ball in his hand or take shots away from our scorers.  He's an old school Center but can move very very well.  The old school centers seemed like their feet were glued to the ground.  Now Collins from Atlanta is my pipe dream type of Center for the C's some day.  Williams will never be the offensive type that Collins is but can definitely be the rebounding and defensive aspect of Collins game.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I am very excited for our young guys this year.  I don't normally get excited for all of our prospects but I am excited for Williams and the guys this year. 

As for Williams I don't ever expect him to be a 30MPG starter in this league.  I expect by next year an elite defensive presence who plays 20 - 24 MPG.  No offense outside of lobs and put backs but if the effort is there he is going to be an elite defender.  His lack of hitting free throws and being able to hit an outside shot will absolutely cap his ceiling.  I'm ok with that.   I'm ok with having a guy to battle Embiid, Gasol types.  Someone to protect our guards if they get beat and someone who anytime someone drives to the hole they are aware RW is lurking to swat it away.  Changing a shot is sometimes as good or better then blocking it. 

If Robert can switch on the PNR and move his feet well we have a big asset.  I just don't see a guy who is ever going to be a good offensive player outside of the paint and I'm ok with that.  He can average 10ppg just off lobs and ORB and will never require the ball in his hand or take shots away from our scorers.  He's an old school Center but can move very very well.  The old school centers seemed like their feet were glued to the ground.  Now Collins from Atlanta is my pipe dream type of Center for the C's some day.  Williams will never be the offensive type that Collins is but can definitely be the rebounding and defensive aspect of Collins game.

I understand that, due to his athleticism, this is the assumption of what he could be, but I disagree on his archetype.

He is a really good passer. In fact, I don't think his offense is an issue at all. Defense is the problem.

He knows how to move the ball, set screens, and collapse the defense on dives to the rim. That makes for a good team offense -- most of the time the players with the best offensive rating are rim runners in that mold.

I don't think he is playing because of his defensive reads. He can make explosive defensive plays, but he doesn't make the little defensive plays. He doesn't make the little reads. He's not in the right position to discourage drives and cut off cutting lanes. As a team defensive player, he isn't there.

That's important for a winning team. For a team like the Knicks that are  just looking for highlight plays, a player like that is fine. But for a team with championship aspirations, you have to rebuild Williams' defensive instincts from the ground up. That means you can't just throw him into the rotation. You have to make sure he is getting reps doing things the right way. That's not sexy, especially when everyone wants big minutes and highlight plays. It takes time and 1000 reps behind the scenes for every 1 rep the fans see.

It's the same thing they did with Rozier, which is why he was able to lead the team into the playoffs when Irving was down. It's the same thing they are doing with Brown and Tatum. They are building right habits into players who have natural abilities from the ground up.

Give Williams time.

[droopdog7]

I am not sold on Williams potential. hoping for the Best, but i would not be too surprised if he ends up like old friend JaJuan

I'd say his POTENTIAL is off the charts.  Can he tap into that potential?  Well, that's the question.

I don't agree.  Is he athletic?  Sure.  But his offensive potential is virtually nil IMO.  Or at least very low.

[footey]

I am not sold on Williams potential. hoping for the Best, but i would not be too surprised if he ends up like old friend JaJuan

I'd say his POTENTIAL is off the charts.  Can he tap into that potential?  Well, that's the question.

I don't agree.  Is he athletic?  Sure.  But his offensive potential is virtually nil IMO.  Or at least very low.

Shooting, yes. Facilitating, can be really good. Brad has to maximize his talents. Our defensive potential is off the charts if he can learn the rotations better.

[wiley]

I am very excited for our young guys this year.  I don't normally get excited for all of our prospects but I am excited for Williams and the guys this year. 

As for Williams I don't ever expect him to be a 30MPG starter in this league.  I expect by next year an elite defensive presence who plays 20 - 24 MPG.  No offense outside of lobs and put backs but if the effort is there he is going to be an elite defender.  His lack of hitting free throws and being able to hit an outside shot will absolutely cap his ceiling.  I'm ok with that.   I'm ok with having a guy to battle Embiid, Gasol types.  Someone to protect our guards if they get beat and someone who anytime someone drives to the hole they are aware RW is lurking to swat it away.  Changing a shot is sometimes as good or better then blocking it. 

If Robert can switch on the PNR and move his feet well we have a big asset.  I just don't see a guy who is ever going to be a good offensive player outside of the paint and I'm ok with that.  He can average 10ppg just off lobs and ORB and will never require the ball in his hand or take shots away from our scorers.  He's an old school Center but can move very very well.  The old school centers seemed like their feet were glued to the ground.  Now Collins from Atlanta is my pipe dream type of Center for the C's some day.  Williams will never be the offensive type that Collins is but can definitely be the rebounding and defensive aspect of Collins game.

I understand that, due to his athleticism, this is the assumption of what he could be, but I disagree on his archetype.

He is a really good passer. In fact, I don't think his offense is an issue at all. Defense is the problem.

He knows how to move the ball, set screens, and collapse the defense on dives to the rim. That makes for a good team offense -- most of the time the players with the best offensive rating are rim runners in that mold.

I don't think he is playing because of his defensive reads. He can make explosive defensive plays, but he doesn't make the little defensive plays. He doesn't make the little reads. He's not in the right position to discourage drives and cut off cutting lanes. As a team defensive player, he isn't there.

That's important for a winning team. For a team like the Knicks that are  just looking for highlight plays, a player like that is fine. But for a team with championship aspirations, you have to rebuild Williams' defensive instincts from the ground up. That means you can't just throw him into the rotation. You have to make sure he is getting reps doing things the right way. That's not sexy, especially when everyone wants big minutes and highlight plays. It takes time and 1000 reps behind the scenes for every 1 rep the fans see.

It's the same thing they did with Rozier, which is why he was able to lead the team into the playoffs when Irving was down. It's the same thing they are doing with Brown and Tatum. They are building right habits into players who have natural abilities from the ground up.

Give Williams time.

Excellent and true post.  Looking good on O...needs time on D.
I'm hoping G williams can help him along on that end with his vocal nature and IQ and defensive instincts.   

[IDreamCeltics]

His counting stats in Summer League were pretty excellent this year.  I actually wouldn't be surprised to see him play a lot.  We know Brad is capable of force-feeding players minutes with an eye on the future. 

[nickagneta]

How did Timelord suddenly get the reputation of having some special passing skills? Was it because he had 2 nice passes in 1 Summer League game? I watched him a bunch in college and he didn't show much in passing skills or court vision.

Williams passing ability, at best, will be as good as Baynes or Theis or Amir Johnson or any okay big man. Williams ceiling on being a good passing big man is fairly low, mostly because his BBIQ is so low. He does not see the floor well at all to know the best place to go with a pass. I just don't understand this new passing ability that some are claiming he has.

[mobilija]

How did Timelord suddenly get the reputation of having some special passing skills? Was it because he had 2 nice passes in 1 Summer League game? I watched him a bunch in college and he didn't show much in passing skills or court vision.

Williams passing ability, at best, will be as good as Baynes or Theis or Amir Johnson or any okay big man. Williams ceiling on being a good passing big man is fairly low, mostly because his BBIQ is so low. He does not see the floor well at all to know the best place to go with a pass. I just don't understand this new passing ability that some are claiming he has.

You’re not paying attention then. He’s had more than 2 nice passes in 1 summer league game. When he has gotten the ball and had a chance to initiate offense(not often) he consistently makes good choices w accurate passes, sometimes pretty nifty.

Here is a video after quick YouTube search. All from his college days.
https://youtu.be/n3lkXv3jLjk

Looks to have very good passing skills for 19 yr old big.

Edited for typos...

[Hoopvortex]

How did Timelord suddenly get the reputation of having some special passing skills? Was it because he had 2 nice passes in 1 Summer League game? I watched him a bunch in college and he didn't show much in passing skills or court vision.

Williams passing ability, at best, will be as good as Baynes or Theis or Amir Johnson or any okay big man. Williams ceiling on being a good passing big man is fairly low, mostly because his BBIQ is so low. He does not see the floor well at all to know the best place to go with a pass. I just don't understand this new passing ability that some are claiming he has.

You’re not paying attention then. He’s had more than 2 nice passes in 1 summer league game. When he has gotten the ball and had a chance to initiate offense(not often) he consistently makes good choices w accurate passes, sometimes pretty nifty.

Here is a video after quick YouTube search. All from his college days.
https://youtu.be/n3lkXv3jLjk

Looks to have very good passing skills for 19 yr old big.

Edited for typos...

Tomas Kordylewski does really nice highlight reels, including several from Summer League.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jDECFFNmhM

The six passing highlights for Timelord on this one are from three games, and they're all really super. If you wanted some demonstrations that he sees the floor, is a willing passer, has a repertoire of passes, and has good passing touch, this is a good sampler to look at. These are all first-class finds.

:23 Second Memphis game.  Takes the pass up top; drives down the gut, attracts the double team, dishes to Grant Williams who draws the shooting foul.  Doesn't force it, makes the right read.

:32 Philadelphia game. They have him at the top of the key, getting the ball - note that the point of the play is for him to make a decision. Two cutters, he hits the right one with a real sharp delivery on the numbers. Shot gets blocked but he goes WAY up to get it and dunk it. Instinctive, right place at the right time. This guy is a natural.

:38 First Memphis game. Recovers the loose ball, and in one motion finds the open Grant Williams for the dunk. This one is just brilliant - high basketball IQ. Great hands, instinctive, super quick feet.

1:56 Philadelphia game. As the roll man, he takes the nice dish from Carsen Edwards in the lane, but kicks it out cross court to an open Grant Williams.  As the old expression goes, GW then has time to lick his finger and check the wind before making the shot. Again, the right read and delivers it right into his chest.

2:05 First Memphis game. Posting up on the right block, he throws cross-court again to Grant Williams for the 3, again right on the numbers.

2:20 First Memphis game. Takes a pass at the top of the arc, immediately recognizing that Grant Williams has a smaller man sealed in the lane, and in one motion throws a perfect lob for the score. I don't know if you've tried to throw a good lob; in some ways this play encapsulates how special he can be. He's got the opportunity sized up before he gets the ball, and delivers without hesitation. Again, a high BBIQ pass.

Another takeaway from this sampler is that the coach is putting him in a position to make decisions. They're looking to develop him, in other words, as someone you can run offense through.  Of course, these highlights are only the ones that led to scores.

[Hoopvortex]

Was it because he had 2 nice passes in 1 Summer League game? I watched him a bunch in college and he didn't show much in passing skills or court vision.

Which game was that? Also - do you have a link? I'm wondering if they're two of the same passes that I referenced above.

I showed six "nice passes" in three SL games, so obviously I don't accept your premise.

Williams ceiling on being a good passing big man is fairly low, mostly because his BBIQ is so low. He does not see the floor well at all to know the best place to go with a pass.

I think that you'll be surprised, once you've seen him play some more. In particular I think that you're underestimating his BBIQ.

[nickagneta]

Oops I guess he made six good passes. Whoopie. He is not some great passer. He made a few good passes. Like I said, his passing will top out as being as good as other standard big men like Baynes, Amir Johnson or Theis. That is it.

[Somebody]

Oops I guess he made six good passes. Whoopie. He is not some great passer. He made a few good passes. Like I said, his passing will top out as being as good as other standard big men like Baynes, Amir Johnson or Theis. That is it.

Agreed. He'll need to make a huge leap to be more than that.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Oops I guess he made six good passes. Whoopie. He is not some great passer. He made a few good passes. Like I said, his passing will top out as being as good as other standard big men like Baynes, Amir Johnson or Theis. That is it.

I'm not sure Williams will become an elite passer in the NBA either. Big men that become elite passers typically need to be high usage players. That's something I don't see happening with Williams. Non-scorers like Joakim Noah that become elite passers are pretty rare. The play style is prohibitive to it.

Still, big men in the modern NBA need to be able to move the ball, hit backcuts, hit the opposite corner on pick-and-rolls, and run hand-offs out front. It's one of the thing that separates average offenses from good offenses, and fringe starting big men from solid starting big men.

To see that Robert Williams has the raw talent as a passer to be a starting caliber big is exciting, even if he may not be absolutely elite at it.

Again, the raw talent he has on offense that includes the gravity he holds diving to the rim, offensive rebounding, and passing, makes his potential to add to a team offense pretty good.

As I stated earlier, the main concern that I have (the raw talent I haven't see as much) is his defensive rotations. He has to develop everything, but he has shown the raw talent on offense and big defensive plays. The main area of improvement needed is his defensive positioning.