Author Topic: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?  (Read 2971 times)

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Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2019, 04:39:37 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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Jaylen's probably just not there yet, if he ever will be. I like him and his potential as a 2 way player, but he just doesn't have anywhere near the polish JT does, and that's the sort of thing that gets a guy on the all star team.

I'd put the over/under at 1.5, and I'd take the over because I think Tatum is going to break out. Kemba's almost a lock, but I think that unless he has a monster year, Hayward is more likely to win come back player of the year rather than all star. Feels like he'll need a good year just to rehabilitate his reputation.

Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2019, 04:49:44 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Doubt Brown ever be an All Star
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2019, 05:00:06 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Jaylen's probably just not there yet, if he ever will be. I like him and his potential as a 2 way player, but he just doesn't have anywhere near the polish JT does, and that's the sort of thing that gets a guy on the all star team.

I'd put the over/under at 1.5, and I'd take the over because I think Tatum is going to break out. Kemba's almost a lock, but I think that unless he has a monster year, Hayward is more likely to win come back player of the year rather than all star. Feels like he'll need a good year just to rehabilitate his reputation.

This is how I feel too, I think tatum will get a few more shots up this year without Morris and Rozier not around. That could very be the difference in him making it

Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2019, 10:26:34 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Jaylen's probably just not there yet, if he ever will be. I like him and his potential as a 2 way player, but he just doesn't have anywhere near the polish JT does, and that's the sort of thing that gets a guy on the all star team.

I'd put the over/under at 1.5, and I'd take the over because I think Tatum is going to break out. Kemba's almost a lock, but I think that unless he has a monster year, Hayward is more likely to win come back player of the year rather than all star. Feels like he'll need a good year just to rehabilitate his reputation.

This is how I feel too, I think tatum will get a few more shots up this year without Morris and Rozier not around. That could very be the difference in him making it
Tatum was only at 15.7 ppg on 13.1 shots.  Even with 3 more shots a game he'd still be at 19.3 ppg and I'm just not sure that is enough unless Boston has a great record.  Now if he picks up his efficiency a bit, then that extra 3 shots will probably get him an all star appearance.  That said, I'm not really sure he gets an extra 3 shots a game.  I think Hayward is far more likely to see a significant shot increase, as is Smart.  I'd even put Brown ahead of Tatum as far as a shot increase.  I also think collectively Walker and Kanter will take more shots than Irving and Horford did. 
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Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2019, 10:28:22 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Hypothetically? Sure.
 
 Realistically? No.

Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2019, 11:26:17 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Jaylen's probably just not there yet, if he ever will be. I like him and his potential as a 2 way player, but he just doesn't have anywhere near the polish JT does, and that's the sort of thing that gets a guy on the all star team.

I'd put the over/under at 1.5, and I'd take the over because I think Tatum is going to break out. Kemba's almost a lock, but I think that unless he has a monster year, Hayward is more likely to win come back player of the year rather than all star. Feels like he'll need a good year just to rehabilitate his reputation.

This is how I feel too, I think tatum will get a few more shots up this year without Morris and Rozier not around. That could very be the difference in him making it
Tatum was only at 15.7 ppg on 13.1 shots.  Even with 3 more shots a game he'd still be at 19.3 ppg and I'm just not sure that is enough unless Boston has a great record.  Now if he picks up his efficiency a bit, then that extra 3 shots will probably get him an all star appearance.  That said, I'm not really sure he gets an extra 3 shots a game.  I think Hayward is far more likely to see a significant shot increase, as is Smart.  I'd even put Brown ahead of Tatum as far as a shot increase.  I also think collectively Walker and Kanter will take more shots than Irving and Horford did.

Why do you think brown will see a bigger uptick In shots than tatum? I feel like Brown is viewed a bit more as a defensive player than a scorer where it is the opposite with Tatum. Hayward is a really good passer and I think he will take on some of the passing that we are losing with Horford. I agree with you there is a chance we get more shots from kanter than we got from Horford, but Morris and rozier were really high volume shooters. In roziers case it was atrocious cause he was hitting 39%

Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2019, 04:48:07 AM »

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If the Celts are going to have a 4th All-Star, my money is on Carsen Edwards.

Maybe not in a couple of years, but watch out when Carsen is on his 3rd year in the NBA.

Carsen's only weakness is he's not tall.

Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2019, 08:43:52 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Jaylen's probably just not there yet, if he ever will be. I like him and his potential as a 2 way player, but he just doesn't have anywhere near the polish JT does, and that's the sort of thing that gets a guy on the all star team.

I'd put the over/under at 1.5, and I'd take the over because I think Tatum is going to break out. Kemba's almost a lock, but I think that unless he has a monster year, Hayward is more likely to win come back player of the year rather than all star. Feels like he'll need a good year just to rehabilitate his reputation.

This is how I feel too, I think tatum will get a few more shots up this year without Morris and Rozier not around. That could very be the difference in him making it
Tatum was only at 15.7 ppg on 13.1 shots.  Even with 3 more shots a game he'd still be at 19.3 ppg and I'm just not sure that is enough unless Boston has a great record.  Now if he picks up his efficiency a bit, then that extra 3 shots will probably get him an all star appearance.  That said, I'm not really sure he gets an extra 3 shots a game.  I think Hayward is far more likely to see a significant shot increase, as is Smart.  I'd even put Brown ahead of Tatum as far as a shot increase.  I also think collectively Walker and Kanter will take more shots than Irving and Horford did.

Why do you think brown will see a bigger uptick In shots than tatum? I feel like Brown is viewed a bit more as a defensive player than a scorer where it is the opposite with Tatum. Hayward is a really good passer and I think he will take on some of the passing that we are losing with Horford. I agree with you there is a chance we get more shots from kanter than we got from Horford, but Morris and rozier were really high volume shooters. In roziers case it was atrocious cause he was hitting 39%
I think Brown is going to spend a lot of time in the 2nd unit and with the loss of Rozier and Morris/Hayward from that unit, I think he will benefit a great deal from those extra shots.  I also think Brown is going to be in the 30 minute range, while I don't think Tatum is going to increase his minutes at all.  So I think Brown will actually be taking Rozier/Morris minutes (along with Smart and Hayward) and that matters where shots are concerned.  I fully expect a much tighter rotation at the top this year as the team just isn't as deep overall.

Hayward is the guy that seemingly had his shots depressed the most last year.  He was steadily increasing his shots every year in Utah and was near 16 shots a game his last year there, he was at a meager 8.8 last year.  I don't think Hayward gets back up to 15.8, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him around 13 shots a game this year.  In fact, if Boston is going to be successful I think it is because Hayward is getting that level of shots (in addition to being the 2nd offensive initiator behind Walker).  Like Brown, I also expect Hayward to play an extra 5-8 minutes a game. 

In addition, since I think Walker and Kanter will combine for more shots than Irving and Horford, I believe there won't be as many shots for Tatum who I expect to play the vast majority of his minutes with both Kanter and Walker (obviously Brown and Hayward will, but I think they will both spend a bit more time with the 2nd unit than Tatum does).

So if you clean up the rotation a bit, I would expect the minutes to be something like this for the regular season

PG - Walker 34, Smart 10, Wanamaker/Edwards 4
SG - Brown 15, Smart 20, Langford 13
SF - Hayward 31, Brown 17
PF - Tatum 32, Semi 10, G. Williams 6
C - Kanter 30, Theis 10, R. Williams 8

Obviously the playoff rotation tightens up, but I think that is what we will generally see over the course of the season the top 6 all getting in the 30-35 minute range and the younger guys just filling in here and there to get some experience.  Tatum doesn't really see an increase in minutes, while Brown, Smart, and Hayward all do, which helps lead to the latter 3 all getting a fair amount of an increase in shots for that reason alone (in addition to the other reasons I described). 

And as an aside, looking at that rotation, the interior is very very weak.  If Kanter misses any time, the team is in real trouble.  This has been the main reason I haven't been all that high on this team entering the year, and when you actually type out the rotation that issue becomes glaringly obvious.  The roster construction has real issues.  The team needs another big man badly (which is why I'd be fine taking a flyer on someone like Dwight Howard for the minimum).   
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Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2019, 06:34:37 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Jaylen's probably just not there yet, if he ever will be. I like him and his potential as a 2 way player, but he just doesn't have anywhere near the polish JT does, and that's the sort of thing that gets a guy on the all star team.

I'd put the over/under at 1.5, and I'd take the over because I think Tatum is going to break out. Kemba's almost a lock, but I think that unless he has a monster year, Hayward is more likely to win come back player of the year rather than all star. Feels like he'll need a good year just to rehabilitate his reputation.

This is how I feel too, I think tatum will get a few more shots up this year without Morris and Rozier not around. That could very be the difference in him making it
Tatum was only at 15.7 ppg on 13.1 shots.  Even with 3 more shots a game he'd still be at 19.3 ppg and I'm just not sure that is enough unless Boston has a great record.  Now if he picks up his efficiency a bit, then that extra 3 shots will probably get him an all star appearance.  That said, I'm not really sure he gets an extra 3 shots a game.  I think Hayward is far more likely to see a significant shot increase, as is Smart.  I'd even put Brown ahead of Tatum as far as a shot increase.  I also think collectively Walker and Kanter will take more shots than Irving and Horford did.

Why do you think brown will see a bigger uptick In shots than tatum? I feel like Brown is viewed a bit more as a defensive player than a scorer where it is the opposite with Tatum. Hayward is a really good passer and I think he will take on some of the passing that we are losing with Horford. I agree with you there is a chance we get more shots from kanter than we got from Horford, but Morris and rozier were really high volume shooters. In roziers case it was atrocious cause he was hitting 39%
I think Brown is going to spend a lot of time in the 2nd unit and with the loss of Rozier and Morris/Hayward from that unit, I think he will benefit a great deal from those extra shots.  I also think Brown is going to be in the 30 minute range, while I don't think Tatum is going to increase his minutes at all.  So I think Brown will actually be taking Rozier/Morris minutes (along with Smart and Hayward) and that matters where shots are concerned.  I fully expect a much tighter rotation at the top this year as the team just isn't as deep overall.

Hayward is the guy that seemingly had his shots depressed the most last year.  He was steadily increasing his shots every year in Utah and was near 16 shots a game his last year there, he was at a meager 8.8 last year.  I don't think Hayward gets back up to 15.8, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him around 13 shots a game this year.  In fact, if Boston is going to be successful I think it is because Hayward is getting that level of shots (in addition to being the 2nd offensive initiator behind Walker).  Like Brown, I also expect Hayward to play an extra 5-8 minutes a game. 

In addition, since I think Walker and Kanter will combine for more shots than Irving and Horford, I believe there won't be as many shots for Tatum who I expect to play the vast majority of his minutes with both Kanter and Walker (obviously Brown and Hayward will, but I think they will both spend a bit more time with the 2nd unit than Tatum does).

So if you clean up the rotation a bit, I would expect the minutes to be something like this for the regular season

PG - Walker 34, Smart 10, Wanamaker/Edwards 4
SG - Brown 15, Smart 20, Langford 13
SF - Hayward 31, Brown 17
PF - Tatum 32, Semi 10, G. Williams 6
C - Kanter 30, Theis 10, R. Williams 8

Obviously the playoff rotation tightens up, but I think that is what we will generally see over the course of the season the top 6 all getting in the 30-35 minute range and the younger guys just filling in here and there to get some experience.  Tatum doesn't really see an increase in minutes, while Brown, Smart, and Hayward all do, which helps lead to the latter 3 all getting a fair amount of an increase in shots for that reason alone (in addition to the other reasons I described). 

And as an aside, looking at that rotation, the interior is very very weak.  If Kanter misses any time, the team is in real trouble.  This has been the main reason I haven't been all that high on this team entering the year, and when you actually type out the rotation that issue becomes glaringly obvious.  The roster construction has real issues.  The team needs another big man badly (which is why I'd be fine taking a flyer on someone like Dwight Howard for the minimum).   

So I think if our rotation does play out that way, that would be some reasonable way of thinking about shocks. However, it makes a lot more sense for us to play Brown extra minutes with Kemba and Kantar than Tatum right? Like Walker and Kanter both will take shots like you say, but neither is good at defense. Wouldn't it make sense to pair them with a stronger defensive player and weaker offensive player like Brown for more minutes? I think Tatum creating offense on the floor with Theis, Semi and Smart would be a lot more valuable than brown getting those minutes. I also don't think we can say all of Tatum's minutes will come at Power forward, that would probably get him too beat up over the course of a season. Also if you are playing against a team like Pistons or Philly, he can't really guard blake or horford if they are going big.

I agree with you about Howard and would be happy if we signed him. I would also be happy with Noah. I think either one of the young guys will surprise us or we will see a move be made pretty quick.

Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2019, 07:29:28 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Jaylen's probably just not there yet, if he ever will be. I like him and his potential as a 2 way player, but he just doesn't have anywhere near the polish JT does, and that's the sort of thing that gets a guy on the all star team.

I'd put the over/under at 1.5, and I'd take the over because I think Tatum is going to break out. Kemba's almost a lock, but I think that unless he has a monster year, Hayward is more likely to win come back player of the year rather than all star. Feels like he'll need a good year just to rehabilitate his reputation.

This is how I feel too, I think tatum will get a few more shots up this year without Morris and Rozier not around. That could very be the difference in him making it
Tatum was only at 15.7 ppg on 13.1 shots.  Even with 3 more shots a game he'd still be at 19.3 ppg and I'm just not sure that is enough unless Boston has a great record.  Now if he picks up his efficiency a bit, then that extra 3 shots will probably get him an all star appearance.  That said, I'm not really sure he gets an extra 3 shots a game.  I think Hayward is far more likely to see a significant shot increase, as is Smart.  I'd even put Brown ahead of Tatum as far as a shot increase.  I also think collectively Walker and Kanter will take more shots than Irving and Horford did.

Why do you think brown will see a bigger uptick In shots than tatum? I feel like Brown is viewed a bit more as a defensive player than a scorer where it is the opposite with Tatum. Hayward is a really good passer and I think he will take on some of the passing that we are losing with Horford. I agree with you there is a chance we get more shots from kanter than we got from Horford, but Morris and rozier were really high volume shooters. In roziers case it was atrocious cause he was hitting 39%
I think Brown is going to spend a lot of time in the 2nd unit and with the loss of Rozier and Morris/Hayward from that unit, I think he will benefit a great deal from those extra shots.  I also think Brown is going to be in the 30 minute range, while I don't think Tatum is going to increase his minutes at all.  So I think Brown will actually be taking Rozier/Morris minutes (along with Smart and Hayward) and that matters where shots are concerned.  I fully expect a much tighter rotation at the top this year as the team just isn't as deep overall.

Hayward is the guy that seemingly had his shots depressed the most last year.  He was steadily increasing his shots every year in Utah and was near 16 shots a game his last year there, he was at a meager 8.8 last year.  I don't think Hayward gets back up to 15.8, but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him around 13 shots a game this year.  In fact, if Boston is going to be successful I think it is because Hayward is getting that level of shots (in addition to being the 2nd offensive initiator behind Walker).  Like Brown, I also expect Hayward to play an extra 5-8 minutes a game. 

In addition, since I think Walker and Kanter will combine for more shots than Irving and Horford, I believe there won't be as many shots for Tatum who I expect to play the vast majority of his minutes with both Kanter and Walker (obviously Brown and Hayward will, but I think they will both spend a bit more time with the 2nd unit than Tatum does).

So if you clean up the rotation a bit, I would expect the minutes to be something like this for the regular season

PG - Walker 34, Smart 10, Wanamaker/Edwards 4
SG - Brown 15, Smart 20, Langford 13
SF - Hayward 31, Brown 17
PF - Tatum 32, Semi 10, G. Williams 6
C - Kanter 30, Theis 10, R. Williams 8

Obviously the playoff rotation tightens up, but I think that is what we will generally see over the course of the season the top 6 all getting in the 30-35 minute range and the younger guys just filling in here and there to get some experience.  Tatum doesn't really see an increase in minutes, while Brown, Smart, and Hayward all do, which helps lead to the latter 3 all getting a fair amount of an increase in shots for that reason alone (in addition to the other reasons I described). 

And as an aside, looking at that rotation, the interior is very very weak.  If Kanter misses any time, the team is in real trouble.  This has been the main reason I haven't been all that high on this team entering the year, and when you actually type out the rotation that issue becomes glaringly obvious.  The roster construction has real issues.  The team needs another big man badly (which is why I'd be fine taking a flyer on someone like Dwight Howard for the minimum).   

So I think if our rotation does play out that way, that would be some reasonable way of thinking about shocks. However, it makes a lot more sense for us to play Brown extra minutes with Kemba and Kantar than Tatum right? Like Walker and Kanter both will take shots like you say, but neither is good at defense. Wouldn't it make sense to pair them with a stronger defensive player and weaker offensive player like Brown for more minutes? I think Tatum creating offense on the floor with Theis, Semi and Smart would be a lot more valuable than brown getting those minutes. I also don't think we can say all of Tatum's minutes will come at Power forward, that would probably get him too beat up over the course of a season. Also if you are playing against a team like Pistons or Philly, he can't really guard blake or horford if they are going big.

I agree with you about Howard and would be happy if we signed him. I would also be happy with Noah. I think either one of the young guys will surprise us or we will see a move be made pretty quick.
I have Tatum exclusively at PF, Brown can't play PF.  that is why I think it works out more the way I have it.  And I agree, Tatum shouldn't be playing PF, but there is no one else that can reasonably play that role (except maybe Hayward).  If Tatum is playing at SF a lot, then this team is in big trouble because there is no way guys like G. Williams or Semi should be getting anything more than nominal minutes.  When you have a roster with 0 credible PF's on it and where 3 of the 4 best players are best at SF, this is what happens to a rotation.

The simple reality is, this roster is constructed like crap.  It has almost no size and the size it has (other than Kanter) is way too young and raw to be counted on for anything.  At some point, Ainge needs to be held accountable for putting together rosters that are messes.
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Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2019, 07:45:30 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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We could, but I doubt it. Would be nice though!

I think we'll have 2. Kemba and Tatum.
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Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2019, 06:16:41 AM »

Offline shut_the_gate

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If the Celtics actually play up to their level this season and get a top 1-3 seed is it not in the realm of possibilities that Tatum, Hayward, Brown and Walker all make the All Star team?

Hayward and Walker are both former All-Stars so if the return and maintain their level of play they both could be there, Tatum obviously has the offensive ability and will get the shots and Brown is the biggest what if as he won’t get the offensive numbers to be a ‘typical All-Star’ thus he’d need Horford like all round numbers to be in contention.

The thing to remember is that because the Celtics are in an all time weak Eastern Conference we have a great shot at 4 All-Stars as Leonard is gone, Durant is out for the Season, Blake Griffin is extremely injury prone...and the list goes on.

Thoughts?

No
No way

Hayward: 18.9 PPG 7.1 RPG 4.1 APG  55.5 FG% 43.3 FG3% 22.3 PER
Walker: 23.4 PPG 4.5 RPG 5.0 APG  41.7 FG% 39.7 FG3% 22.5 PER
Brown: 19.5 PPG 7.3 RPG 2.3 APG  49.7 FG% 39.0 FG3% 19.1 PER
Tatum: 20.2 PPG 7.5 RPG 2.4 APG  40.3 FG% 37.8 FG3% 16.8 PER

« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 06:54:30 AM by shut_the_gate »

Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2019, 08:16:13 AM »

Offline Somebody

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I'll go out on a limb and say we can have 5 All-Stars if we keep on leading the league in W/L record. Smart's defense makes him a fringe All-Star, and I can see people voting him in due to his massive defensively impact on the best team in the league.
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Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2019, 09:06:04 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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I'll go out on a limb and say we can have 5 All-Stars if we keep on leading the league in W/L record. Smart's defense makes him a fringe All-Star, and I can see people voting him in due to his massive defensively impact on the best team in the league.
no way we get 5 regardless of our record.  scoring is the flashiest part of the game and Smart isn't a scorer no matter how much he shoots.

I could see 3 but not 4 just due to the number of teams in the East.  The question is which 3 --Kemba most likely but does Hayward go considering how much time he'll have missed or Brown with the lack of hype he gets despite his improved play or Tatum with all the hype he does get and his relatively disappointing level of play?

Philly and Toronto will likely send 2 each.  Milwaukee probably 2 as well.  Butler with Miami.  Kyrie is a likely shoo-in regardless of the Nets' record.   Team fills up fast and that's not half the teams in the conference.

Re: Hypothetically could we see 4 Celtics All-Stars?
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2019, 09:26:50 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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If Hayward misses about 18-19 games it will be very difficult for him to make it, that would only leave abut 30 games before the voting closes.

Tatum/Brown are both in the conversation, Tatum needs t improve his efficiency numbers or coaches/stats nerds wont select him. Brown needs to keep his scoring up around or over 20/game.

Kemba will make it.

Smart wont score enough.