Author Topic: Slow Day In August: TrueHoop Pushes the "Owner" Envelop  (Read 1491 times)

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Re: Slow Day In August: TrueHoop Pushes the "Owner" Envelop
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2019, 11:08:47 PM »

Offline RPGenerate

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https://twitter.com/TrueHoop/status/1159898808001675265

Quote from: Henry Abbott
The word "owner," with its overtones of slavery, is evidently on its way out of the NBA.

But you know what's still common practice? Literally trading, and even selling, people.





Thoughts?



Personally this strikes me as very silly.  It seems to me that the endgame of this conversation is a league in which the players sign a new contract every year.  Perhaps we could even draft the entire league over again every summer.

Why not?  It would be great TV!

Let's get rid of all max contract restrictions too.  The stars should be paid more! 



I can somewhat respect the position that certain people take re: empowering the players, letting them choose where to play, paying them their full market value, etc.


I don't agree with it, but I can respect the principle behind it.


However, what never gets mentioned in these arguments is the fact that many of the rules that are in place right now were agreed to by the Players Association.  Those rules are designed not just to benefit the owners but to allow for the lesser players in the league, e.g. the role players and the journeymen, to make much more money.



If you want a league where LeBron makes $100 million a year and gets to sign a new contract each season, that's fine. 


That league would not have John Wall collecting $40 million to sit on the bench for several years with an injury.

That league would also not pay $10 million or more annually to Trevor Ariza or Kelly Olynyk or even our beloved Marcus Smart.



My feeling is that people who like the reality TV aspect of the NBA, who think the stars are what it's all about and want the league to revolve around them, seem to enjoy the NBA as tabloid spectacle more than they enjoy the sport of basketball.


In the NBA these folks envision, you would never get the pinnacle of basketball that we had the chance to witness in 2014 with the Spurs or in 2015/2016 with the Warriors.  Those teams would never get built and they'd never play such a cohesive, impressive, beautiful style.


But maybe we're headed toward a player-run league.  Maybe the players will go on strike, start their own league making use of Internet infrastructure, without the restrictions of big cable TV deals, and never go back.


I don't know --- it's the doldrums of August and we need something to talk about, I guess.

Can we still use the word "contract"?  I'm pretty sure slaveowners used those.

What about "basket"?  Didn't slaves have to use them?  And maybe we shouldn't be use "field goal", because slaves worked in the fields.

"Steal"?  That's a racially loaded term because perhaps it suggests that black players commit crimes.  Same thing with "shoot" and "court".

Strong post Roy. It’s a bit ridiculous
This whole concept is freakin' ridiculous, so it fits.
“A little learning is a dangerous thing.
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian Spring”

― Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism

Re: Slow Day In August: TrueHoop Pushes the "Owner" Envelop
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2019, 04:45:34 PM »

Offline timpiker

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NBA players should be ashamed of themselves for comparing their contractual jobs to slavery.  Please make this PC crap stop.  Just stop the insanity.

Re: Slow Day In August: TrueHoop Pushes the "Owner" Envelop
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2019, 05:17:00 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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NBA players should be ashamed of themselves for comparing their contractual jobs to slavery.  Please make this PC crap stop.  Just stop the insanity.

I'd gather that it is not all of them pushing the narrative.

Moreso - the gist of such a move is to get rid of negative labels..connotations...associated with some words in relation to the majority of the racial makeup of players in the NBA.

As I've stated before - such a move is a bit of a reach IMO but I certainly get the connotations behind it.
CELTICSSTRONG HISTORICAL DRAFT 2019 MIA HEAT:
C - SHAQUILLE O'NEAL / ARVYDAS SABONIS / NATE T.
PF -CHRIS WEBBER / NATE THURMOND/ BOBBY
       JONES
SF - PAUL GEORGE  / DETLEF SHREMPF
SG - DWYANE WADE / MANU GINOBILI
PG - JERRY WEST / RICKY PIERCE / MARCUS SMART

Re: Slow Day In August: TrueHoop Pushes the "Owner" Envelop
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2019, 06:11:58 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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The main thing that bothers me is that these discussions always seem to be pushed by people who ignore or are ignorant of two hugely significant facts:

(1) Contracts require two willing parties to sign off on and memorialize an agreement.  Yes, it's true that NBA contracts are restricted by the rules of the CBA

BUT

(2) The players collectively bargain via their union in order to agree on the terms of the CBA



It's asinine to pretend as though the NBA operates independent of the wishes or consent of the players.  If the players have a problem with the terms of the agreement, they can go back to the negotiating table and work out something different.  But the tough thing about a negotiation is that you have to give up things in order to get things.


I understand that the owners are predominantly older white men with billions of dollars.  They, generally speaking, hold the upper hold in negotiations with the players.  Even so, it's ridiculous to act like the structure of the NBA is some grand injustice when the players have had a pretty large role in shaping that structure.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Slow Day In August: TrueHoop Pushes the "Owner" Envelop
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2019, 06:23:44 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Seems pretty obvious to me what the NBA needs to do:

1. Pay the best players the most they are allowed to by the CBA in which the players agree upon.
2. If any player is clearly not productive enough to warrant his (probably massive) salary, pay him anyway.
3. If any player gets injured, regardless of length or severity of injury, pay him anyway.
4. If you don’t want a player anymore, too bad.
5. If a player doesn’t want to play for you anymore, trade him only to wherever they want to go. Or teams may instead elect to pay them every last dollar they agreed to, immediately, and let said player go play in a big market and/or with friends.

That’s the new League the players want.
I AM A CELTIC

Re: Slow Day In August: TrueHoop Pushes the "Owner" Envelop
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2019, 06:34:26 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Did the Mods bring back the Ignore Function? God I hope not.

As I've said before - I REALLY don't think it's ALL players pushing this narrative.

Don't get why some on here seem to think it's a COLLECTIVE effort on the part of NBA players.
CELTICSSTRONG HISTORICAL DRAFT 2019 MIA HEAT:
C - SHAQUILLE O'NEAL / ARVYDAS SABONIS / NATE T.
PF -CHRIS WEBBER / NATE THURMOND/ BOBBY
       JONES
SF - PAUL GEORGE  / DETLEF SHREMPF
SG - DWYANE WADE / MANU GINOBILI
PG - JERRY WEST / RICKY PIERCE / MARCUS SMART

Re: Slow Day In August: TrueHoop Pushes the "Owner" Envelop
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2019, 06:41:36 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Did the Mods bring back the Ignore Function? God I hope not.

As I've said before - I REALLY don't think it's ALL players pushing this narrative.

Don't get why some on here seem to think it's a COLLECTIVE effort on the part of NBA players.

Honestly I don't even see any players pushing this.  To me it seems that it's coming from a certain section of NBA social media intelligentsia (e.g. Henry Abbott).  But there's an echo of this sentiment in the broader NBA fan culture sentiment these days that champions player choice over all other considerations.


I don't know, maybe there are some players who have an issue with the "owner" term.   But if we're talking about the broader issue of trades, the draft, restricted free agency and other systems that direct players to certain teams, it feels like most of the talk is coming from NBA internet media types who have no rooting interest in any particular team and who would obviously stand to gain from the league becoming more of a reality TV show (and generally seem to enjoy the idea of blowing everything up just to see what would happen).
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Slow Day In August: TrueHoop Pushes the "Owner" Envelop
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2019, 06:44:52 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Seems pretty obvious to me what the NBA needs to do:

1. Pay the best players the most they are allowed to by the CBA in which the players agree upon.
2. If any player is clearly not productive enough to warrant his (probably massive) salary, pay him anyway.
3. If any player gets injured, regardless of length or severity of injury, pay him anyway.
4. If you don’t want a player anymore, too bad.
5. If a player doesn’t want to play for you anymore, trade him only to wherever they want to go. Or teams may instead elect to pay them every last dollar they agreed to, immediately, and let said player go play in a big market and/or with friends.

That’s the new League the players want.


"New" league?  Isn't that the league we already have?
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Slow Day In August: TrueHoop Pushes the "Owner" Envelop
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2019, 06:49:46 PM »

Offline wiley

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Did the Mods bring back the Ignore Function? God I hope not.

As I've said before - I REALLY don't think it's ALL players pushing this narrative.

Don't get why some on here seem to think it's a COLLECTIVE effort on the part of NBA players.

Yes, it's not collective at all.  The first player I heard to say this is silly is Stephen Jackson, on the Jump.
Sorry no link. 

This is a big mistake by the NBA if they push it further.  Opposite effect of what is intended will be the outcome.  Just terribly unsound thinking in my opinion.  The goal of this move, should they decide to push it, would require they also ban trades and other "ownerly-like' conduct between teams.  Otherwise they are just doing an assault on the word "owner" itself, which is one of the silliest things I can ever remember.  The Europeans shake their heads at this kind of stuff....like...what are you thinking over there young pups.  Leave the words alone and change your behavior, your mindset, your outlook...but please leave the poor words alone...

A sports team is a commodity.  Having it owned by someone doesn't mean that person owns the players, duh!  They own an entity called the Boston Celtics...no one owns Marcus Smart.  If that's not clear I don't know what to tell you.

Re: Slow Day In August: TrueHoop Pushes the "Owner" Envelop
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2019, 09:38:05 PM »

Offline RockinRyA

  • Ray Allen
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https://twitter.com/TrueHoop/status/1159898808001675265

Quote from: Henry Abbott
The word "owner," with its overtones of slavery, is evidently on its way out of the NBA.

But you know what's still common practice? Literally trading, and even selling, people.





Thoughts?



Personally this strikes me as very silly.  It seems to me that the endgame of this conversation is a league in which the players sign a new contract every year.  Perhaps we could even draft the entire league over again every summer.

Why not?  It would be great TV!

Let's get rid of all max contract restrictions too.  The stars should be paid more! 



I can somewhat respect the position that certain people take re: empowering the players, letting them choose where to play, paying them their full market value, etc.


I don't agree with it, but I can respect the principle behind it.


However, what never gets mentioned in these arguments is the fact that many of the rules that are in place right now were agreed to by the Players Association.  Those rules are designed not just to benefit the owners but to allow for the lesser players in the league, e.g. the role players and the journeymen, to make much more money.



If you want a league where LeBron makes $100 million a year and gets to sign a new contract each season, that's fine. 


That league would not have John Wall collecting $40 million to sit on the bench for several years with an injury.

That league would also not pay $10 million or more annually to Trevor Ariza or Kelly Olynyk or even our beloved Marcus Smart.



My feeling is that people who like the reality TV aspect of the NBA, who think the stars are what it's all about and want the league to revolve around them, seem to enjoy the NBA as tabloid spectacle more than they enjoy the sport of basketball.


In the NBA these folks envision, you would never get the pinnacle of basketball that we had the chance to witness in 2014 with the Spurs or in 2015/2016 with the Warriors.  Those teams would never get built and they'd never play such a cohesive, impressive, beautiful style.


But maybe we're headed toward a player-run league.  Maybe the players will go on strike, start their own league making use of Internet infrastructure, without the restrictions of big cable TV deals, and never go back.


I don't know --- it's the doldrums of August and we need something to talk about, I guess.

Can we still use the word "contract"?  I'm pretty sure slaveowners used those.

What about "basket"?  Didn't slaves have to use them?  And maybe we shouldn't be use "field goal", because slaves worked in the fields.

"Steal"?  That's a racially loaded term because perhaps it suggests that black players commit crimes.  Same thing with "shoot" and "court".

Yeah this is beyond silly now. The owners OWN the team, not the players. Its no different from me and my bakeshop. I own the darn bakeshop not my employee!

 

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