Forward Thinking Importance of Hayward

[rollie mass]

That was a wow article filled with the importance of Hayward on both ends.

It seems we have quite a bit riding on Hayward at forward.
How much Kanter alters spacing and Poirier and Williams also have no outside game.Williams has passing skills that  are instinctual.

It seems Semi and Grant Williams will have to step up and hit shots as well as play good defense.

 Horford  with his spacing ,hitting threes at a high rate,his passing and quarterbacking defense is impossible to replace as structured.. But Brad is really good at figuring things out.
You stats guys are going to have a ball this season  and i think the critics will be out in force.

[Walker Wiggle]

I saw the article. It's here:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/7/30/20730323/boston-celtics-importance-gordon-hayward

Hayward will be valuable as a secondary ball handler playing alongside Walker. Think of IT playing off the ball on occasion and the success he had in that role, for instance.

The question will be on defense. Since you're also almost certainly going to be starting Tatum, you'd have to start Hayward as the second forward in that lineup. Can he match up effectively with power forwards like Horford, for instance? We'll see.

[Silky]

That article is bad.

Using stats based on position when excluding who else is on the court during those possessions makes the statistics imcomplete at best.

And Hayward is not a good enough defender to be paired up with Kemba at SG, that duo would be killed. Smart and or Brown (prefereably both) will need to be on the wings with Kemba, and smart, just like last season, has shown he is more than capable of being a secondary playmaker.

[ETNCeltics]

That article is bad.

Using stats based on position when excluding who else is on the court during those possessions makes the statistics imcomplete at best.

And Hayward is not a good enough defender to be paired up with Kemba at SG, that duo would be killed. Smart and or Brown (prefereably both) will need to be on the wings with Kemba, and smart, just like last season, has shown he is more than capable of being a secondary playmaker.

GH is the 2nd best playmaker on the roster, and he isn’t going to defend  guards regularly. Not sure how you made that leap.

[Silky]

That article is bad.

Using stats based on position when excluding who else is on the court during those possessions makes the statistics imcomplete at best.

And Hayward is not a good enough defender to be paired up with Kemba at SG, that duo would be killed. Smart and or Brown (prefereably both) will need to be on the wings with Kemba, and smart, just like last season, has shown he is more than capable of being a secondary playmaker.

GH is the 2nd best playmaker on the roster, and he isn’t going to defend  guards regularly. Not sure how you made that leap.

The article praises his playmaking abilities as a shooting guard, stating they were not far off of Utah numbers, one has to assume that if he was at his best as a playmaker last season while playing shooting guard, and you want Hayward to be at his best as a secondary playmaker....then that means he is playing as a shooting guard.

Gordon should come off the bench, that is where he will be at his most effective. Starting lineup does not need a secondary playmaker that is any better than Smart, in fact, statistacally speaking, last season the team performed much , much better with Smart beside Irving. Tatum needs to take that next step forward for the team to be truly successfull and having Hayward out there controlling the ball and taking it away from him, kemba, brown is just stupid.

Hayward can close games if he proves himself worth it. but right now all of Kemba, smart, brown and tatum have shown themselves better than Hayward.

[nickagneta]

Hayward hasn't played SG in 3 years. Last year he played 40% at SF and 60% at PF and yet was still one of the team's best playmakers with an asst% over 18%.

I also don't get the claims that Hayward is a bad defender. He had a very good defensive rating of 105 last year and his team defense was dang good. He made the right switches, helped accordingly, moved his man into help, and did a good job staying between his man and the basket.

Yes, like everyone, he had his times where he looked bad. Smart had those times too.Now, I am not claiming Hayward was a defensive savant last year, but Hayward's defense wasn't bad. It was actually the part of his game that I think recovered the most last year after the injury and by year's end seemed really good.

[Silky]

Hayward hasn't played SG in 3 years. Last year he played 40% at SF and 60% at PF and yet was still one of the team's best playmakers with an asst% over 18%.

I also don't get the claims that Hayward is a bad defender. He had a very good defensive rating of 105 last year and his team defense was dang good. He made the right switches, helped accordingly, moved his man into help, and did a good job staying between his man and the basket.

Yes, like everyone, he had his times where he looked bad. Smart had those times too.Now, I am not claiming Hayward was a defensive savant last year, but Hayward's defense wasn't bad. It was actually the part of his game that I think recovered the most last year after the injury and by year's end seemed really good.

His defense looked its best, and was its best, when competing against bench level players, and usually, not the best offensive player off the bench on the opposing teams. That challenge was left for Brown.

[SHAQATTACK]

Gordy does good defense.   Need OFFENSE....just shoot and be a ball hog .

[nickagneta]

Hayward hasn't played SG in 3 years. Last year he played 40% at SF and 60% at PF and yet was still one of the team's best playmakers with an asst% over 18%.

I also don't get the claims that Hayward is a bad defender. He had a very good defensive rating of 105 last year and his team defense was dang good. He made the right switches, helped accordingly, moved his man into help, and did a good job staying between his man and the basket.

Yes, like everyone, he had his times where he looked bad. Smart had those times too.Now, I am not claiming Hayward was a defensive savant last year, but Hayward's defense wasn't bad. It was actually the part of his game that I think recovered the most last year after the injury and by year's end seemed really good.

His defense looked its best, and was its best, when competing against bench level players, and usually, not the best offensive player off the bench on the opposing teams. That challenge was left for Brown.

So like every other player in the history of the NBA, Hayward's defense was better when playing against lesser offensive players?

Also, it should be mentioned that Hayward wasn't only playing against bench scrubs, as you make it seem. Hayward was often one of the first off the bench, playing a lot of time with starters against starters. So he guarded a lot of very good players during the year as well and yet still had a very good Defensive Rating.

[td450]

The question isn't whether he's a good defender. It's whether he can cover other positions

[Silky]

Hayward hasn't played SG in 3 years. Last year he played 40% at SF and 60% at PF and yet was still one of the team's best playmakers with an asst% over 18%.

I also don't get the claims that Hayward is a bad defender. He had a very good defensive rating of 105 last year and his team defense was dang good. He made the right switches, helped accordingly, moved his man into help, and did a good job staying between his man and the basket.

Yes, like everyone, he had his times where he looked bad. Smart had those times too.Now, I am not claiming Hayward was a defensive savant last year, but Hayward's defense wasn't bad. It was actually the part of his game that I think recovered the most last year after the injury and by year's end seemed really good.

His defense looked its best, and was its best, when competing against bench level players, and usually, not the best offensive player off the bench on the opposing teams. That challenge was left for Brown.

So like every other player in the history of the NBA, Hayward's defense was better when playing against lesser offensive players?

Also, it should be mentioned that Hayward wasn't only playing against bench scrubs, as you make it seem. Hayward was often one of the first off the bench, playing a lot of time with starters against starters. So he guarded a lot of very good players during the year as well and yet still had a very good Defensive Rating.

Hayward rarely if ever guarded top options. Rarely. And when he did he was exposed ...just like the article that came out stating a GSW player claiming hayward was a liability on both ends of the floor.

But yeah, he put up decent defense against the lesser bench talebt of the nba. So there is that.


Also, he can only really improve from last season...so there is that too.


But he should not be cointed on, nor for the future of the team, should he be spoonfed to try and get him to be, a top 3 player on the team.

The pecking order is
Kemba
Tatum
Brown
Hayward

I dont think a single gm in the league would value or put gordon above the other 3 names. Much less build a team with championshio aspirations abive the other 3.

[Silky]

Also. Among guards and forwards averaging at least 25 mpg hayward was 24th in the leafue with his defensive rating.

Not world beater at all.

[Greengang5]

Also. Among guards and forwards averaging at least 25 mpg hayward was 24th in the leafue with his defensive rating.

Not world beater at all.

What do the numbers show January on when he had some NBA games under his belt?

[Ilikesports17]

Also. Among guards and forwards averaging at least 25 mpg hayward was 24th in the leafue with his defensive rating.

Not world beater at all.

He was legitimately horrible the first two months or so.

Wonder what that rating looked like the last few months

[NKY fan]

I’m afraid Gordon is the best shooter on our team currently so he should be shooting more. Maybe double his 3pt attempts from last year.