How Many More Years Do We Give Ainge to Win a Championship?

[DrinkinCelticKool-Aid]

If I answered the question in terms of years I would say 7-8 years. See Tatum in his prime. Although by that time Danny will probably be retired and with the NBA the way it is, Tatum would be on his third team by then.

[slamtheking]

always seems that those calling for Danny's head are usually the ones posting loads of trade proposals  to either get their binky or unload a player they don't like OR are hyper-critical of a trade/FA signing they don't personally like.

Danny's one of the better GMs in the league, both with drafting and with trades.  Unless someone's got a suggestion for someone specific to replace him as GM that has a proven track record better than Danny's and is available, this is just a lot of hot air venting.

There's plenty of armchair GMs on here who probably think they'd have a better track record than Danny.   

He's not perfect by any means but he has gotten this team through multiple rebuilds.  Let's see what this new incarnation post-Kyrie does before kicking him to the curb.

exactly.  it'd be one thing if the franchise was dragging along at rock bottom after the title or he had no plan on how to improve the team.  neither situation would be applicable to Danny.

I will say this, if his detractors here get their wish and he's let go, I guarantee he'll have another GM position very soon (if he doesn't retire due to health concerns) and I have little doubt that within 3 seasons, his new franchise would be outperforming whoever took over the C's.

[NKY fan]

Danny should be at least partially blamed for the Davis fiasco..
I think Davis hated the idea of playing for trader Danny ....
Also if Tatum leaves 5 years from now it can be partly blamed on the same Davis fiasco.. Danny lost an incredible amount of goodwill in that trade saga.
As far as the rebuilds yes he was successful multiple times but he only won one title and he was successful in doing so through trades not drafts ... he also didn’t have the trader Danny reputation yet when he convinced garnet to extend before trading for him.

[JBcat]

A better question is who would you rather have as a GM?  For me nobody.  He has done a remarkable job retooling on the fly after the Pierce KG trade.  We are lucky to have Tatum and Brown in the first place.

[Bobshot]

My impression  is the problem last season was started by Stevens handling of the team in the preseason.  Presumably with Ainge's OK.

Stevens focussed mainly in pre season games on the back end of the roster--filling the last few spots.  Starters did not get enough play, in my view. Nor was much of an effort made to  define the starting rotation by pre season performance. Rather, the starting lineup seemed pre-ordained. That did not take well to some of the young talent that sustained them to the finals down the stretch.

I was surprised when the starting lineup for the first game was announced. Especially, Hayward, who hadn't played much.That turned out to be a bad mistake, since it was evident Hayward wasn't ready after missing a whole season.  Starting Irving after being injured down the stretch  was less of a surprise, but even he took a couple weeks to get going  coming back from a knee operation.

So I think Stevens misjudged  the team  focussing more pre season on filling the roster rather than seeing who was game ready to start. I would guess with Ainge's blessings.  I doubt they anticipated the negative reaction they got from the players.

[blink]

Danny should be at least partially blamed for the Davis fiasco..
I think Davis hated the idea of playing for trader Danny ....
Also if Tatum leaves 5 years from now it can be partly blamed on the same Davis fiasco.. Danny lost an incredible amount of goodwill in that trade saga.
As far as the rebuilds yes he was successful multiple times but he only won one title and he was successful in doing so through trades not drafts ... he also didn’t have the trader Danny reputation yet when he convinced garnet to extend before trading for him.

I would be interested in knowing what proof you have for the bolded statements.
I don't think DA's reputation had anything to do with Davis choosing LA.  I also don't think DA lost any goodwill.
Where are you getting this from?

[ETNCeltics]

lol at people wanting Ainge fired over the Anthony Davis non-trade.

Rich Paul is running AD's career. He wanted him with the Lakers. Nothing Ainge or anyone else did could've stopped that.

All we have on the Celtics side re: Anthony Davis is years of speculation. Did Ainge reach out? No doubt. I'd wager several GMs did. Anthony Davis speculation was always hot because Ainge has generally been a willing trader, we had good young players and extra draft picks to trade, and most importantly, Davis was the best NBA player who was in a situation where he had no chance to win a title. Those 3 things led everyone to connect the Davis to Celtics dots.

But in reality, Ainge wasn't whispering to Jackie MacMullen and Woj that he was setting the table for an Anthony Davis trade. People took the available info and reached that (reasonable) conclusion.

So if potential trade talk bothered Tatum and Brown, that's on them. It didn't seem to bother Marcus Smart, and leaving should've bothered him more than anyone. We just had an offseason where nearly half of the all NBA team switched teams, players being on the move is something both JB & JT will have to deal with their whole career.

Personally, I don't think the trade talk was much of a factor at all. Everyone knew we couldn't make an AD trade while KI was a Celtic. I think that the poison that is Kyrie, dissatisfaction from Morris and Rozier wanting to buff stats in contract years, and JB/JT resenting GH's playing time was a perfect storm that led to last season's collapse. I'm sure Brad could've handled it better, but it's evident his belief was that a restored GH grouped with Al & Kyrie was the surest road to contention. Hard to fault him for that.

If you're out on Brad and Danny just because of last season that's a You problem, not a Celtics' problem. Both will be here for many years, unless they decide to leave.

[Neurotic Guy]

lol at people wanting Ainge fired over the Anthony Davis non-trade.

Rich Paul is running AD's career. He wanted him with the Lakers. Nothing Ainge or anyone else did could've stopped that.

All we have on the Celtics side re: Anthony Davis is years of speculation. Did Ainge reach out? No doubt. I'd wager several GMs did. Anthony Davis speculation was always hot because Ainge has generally been a willing trader, we had good young players and extra draft picks to trade, and most importantly, Davis was the best NBA player who was in a situation where he had no chance to win a title. Those 3 things led everyone to connect the Davis to Celtics dots.

But in reality, Ainge wasn't whispering to Jackie MacMullen and Woj that he was setting the table for an Anthony Davis trade. People took the available info and reached that (reasonable) conclusion.

So if potential trade talk bothered Tatum and Brown, that's on them. It didn't seem to bother Marcus Smart, and leaving should've bothered him more than anyone. We just had an offseason where nearly half of the all NBA team switched teams, players being on the move is something both JB & JT will have to deal with their whole career.

Personally, I don't think the trade talk was much of a factor at all. Everyone knew we couldn't make an AD trade while KI was a Celtic. I think that the poison that is Kyrie, dissatisfaction from Morris and Rozier wanting to buff stats in contract years, and JB/JT resenting GH's playing time was a perfect storm that led to last season's collapse. I'm sure Brad could've handled it better, but it's evident his belief was that a restored GH grouped with Al & Kyrie was the surest road to contention. Hard to fault him for that.

If you're out on Brad and Danny just because of last season that's a You problem, not a Celtics' problem. Both will be here for many years, unless they decide to leave.

I agree with most of this.  But the bolded above confuses me.  I don't think everyone knew that.  I sure didn't.  How did you know?

[nickagneta]

lol at people wanting Ainge fired over the Anthony Davis non-trade.

Rich Paul is running AD's career. He wanted him with the Lakers. Nothing Ainge or anyone else did could've stopped that.

All we have on the Celtics side re: Anthony Davis is years of speculation. Did Ainge reach out? No doubt. I'd wager several GMs did. Anthony Davis speculation was always hot because Ainge has generally been a willing trader, we had good young players and extra draft picks to trade, and most importantly, Davis was the best NBA player who was in a situation where he had no chance to win a title. Those 3 things led everyone to connect the Davis to Celtics dots.

But in reality, Ainge wasn't whispering to Jackie MacMullen and Woj that he was setting the table for an Anthony Davis trade. People took the available info and reached that (reasonable) conclusion.

So if potential trade talk bothered Tatum and Brown, that's on them. It didn't seem to bother Marcus Smart, and leaving should've bothered him more than anyone. We just had an offseason where nearly half of the all NBA team switched teams, players being on the move is something both JB & JT will have to deal with their whole career.

Personally, I don't think the trade talk was much of a factor at all. Everyone knew we couldn't make an AD trade while KI was a Celtic. I think that the poison that is Kyrie, dissatisfaction from Morris and Rozier wanting to buff stats in contract years, and JB/JT resenting GH's playing time was a perfect storm that led to last season's collapse. I'm sure Brad could've handled it better, but it's evident his belief was that a restored GH grouped with Al & Kyrie was the surest road to contention. Hard to fault him for that.

If you're out on Brad and Danny just because of last season that's a You problem, not a Celtics' problem. Both will be here for many years, unless they decide to leave.

I agree with most of this.  But the bolded above confuses me.  I don't think everyone knew that.  I sure didn't.  How did you know?

There is a rule called the Rose Rule where you can not have two players, both on max extensions from their rookie contracts, on the same team at the same time. It was reported on by informed sports sites and media for quite a long time last year. Maybe you didn't delve deeply enough into the constant AD trade rumors because it was definitely brought up a lot. And it seemed to get brought up all the time here at CelticsStrong in the Anthony Davis trade thread(s).

[td450]

I don't blame Ainge one iota for not getting Anthony Davis, or for trading for Kyrie. I do think he should have seen what Kyrie was after his first year with us and dealt him, but that would have been a very bold move and perhaps a bit much to ask.

I also don't get the criticism over Hayward's playing time. He was not starting for very long.

I do blame him for not managing the roster balance better, and not prioritizing Brown and Tatum's development higher. We should have traded Rozier and Morris before the start of last year.

He can make up for it by properly handling the next two years. Either Stevens somehow makes a 3 wing team really work out or he has to turn Hayward into a quality big man. He also has to handle Brown and Tatum properly.

[Fierce1]

I don't blame Ainge one iota for not getting Anthony Davis, or for trading for Kyrie. I do think he should have seen what Kyrie was after his first year with us and dealt him, but that would have been a very bold move and perhaps a bit much to ask.

I also don't get the criticism over Hayward's playing time. He was not starting for very long.

I do blame him for not managing the roster balance better, and not prioritizing Brown and Tatum's development higher. We should have traded Rozier and Morris before the start of last year.

He can make up for it by properly handling the next two years. Either Stevens somehow makes a 3 wing team really work out or he has to turn Hayward into a quality big man. He also has to handle Brown and Tatum properly.

You are correct in saying that we should have traded Rozier and Morris.

The problem with that is it would have affected the Celts cap flexibility for an Anthony Davis trade.

Ainge wanted to keep all the assets and cap flexibility.

If Anthony Davis agreed to come to Boston, a thread like this would not have been made.

[gouki88]

I think the idea of giving Ainge a specific amount of years to win a championship is flawed. You can't just say "you have x amount of years to win a ring or else", as there is no way to account for things like injury, or the rise of a new dynasty (like a San Antonio or a Golden State).

[Fierce1]

I think the idea of giving Ainge a specific amount of years to win a championship is flawed. You can't just say "you have x amount of years to win a ring or else", as there is no way to account for things like injury, or the rise of a new dynasty (like a San Antonio or a Golden State).

True.

What's important is Ainge is going in the right direction and the Celts are fun to watch.

This summer is a perfect example of how Ainge turned a bad situation into a good situation.

Celts lost Kyrie and Horford in free-agency and Anthony Davis didn't want to come to Boston.
There were rumors that the Celts were going to start from scratch and build around Tatum and Brown.
But Ainge made a brilliant move by replacing Kyrie with Kemba.
It's brilliant because Ainge made sure the Celts would still be in the hunt this coming season.
One more move and the Celts could be right back to being a contender.
Overall Ainge is doing a good job.

[Moranis]

I don't think Ainge should be fired, but I do think with his health the way it is, it is probably time to start the transition to Zarren. 

[#1P4P]

After assembling a Championship team and subsequent contender until Ray's departure, Ainge accumulates the best collection of assets in the league (enough to trump any team in the NBA) and one master stroke (acquiring a top 5 NBA coach, Horford, Hayward (each coming off All Star seasons), the IT and Kyrie trades, and avoiding albatross contracts) after another.

Ainge, obviously, has a vision and had to adjust on the fly. If one or both of Tatum and Brown become Top 30 players and this team is in contention year in and year out, these short-sighted threads will, hopefully, go by the wayside.