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Question about a lease situation.
« on: July 22, 2019, 05:29:06 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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My situation: My girlfriend and I rent a townhouse and the landlord is attempting to sell it. We will have 60 days to move out if we they get an offer for the place and the new owner does not want to rent to us. We are in a holding pattern not knowing if and when we will be thrown out.

We have a 'Greater Boston Area Real Estate Board' Standard Form Apartment Lease (Self Extending)

What we want to do: Rather than risk getting thrown out we are attempting to find a new place now while we have good options on the market.

We believe that we went month to month after the first year but need to be sure because there is a clause that says that if we break the lease we lose last month's rent and security deposit.

Can anyone tell based on this paragraph if we go month to month after our initial 11 month lease?

"---Lessor herby lease to ----lessee who hereby hire the following premise ---- for the term of '11 month' ---- and continuing in full force and effect after the above term from the year to year until either the lessor or lessee, on or before the first day of 'MONTH' in any year, gives to the other written notice of intention to terminate this least on the last day of 'MONTH' next after the date of said notice in which the lease hereby created shall terminate in accordance with such notice."

Basically my question is this, can they kick us out if they sell but we are on the hook until the end of the 22nd month or did we become month to month after the first 11 month lease term? Thanks for any response in advance.

Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2019, 07:03:25 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Can anyone tell based on this paragraph if we go month to month after our initial 11 month lease?

"---Lessor herby lease to ----lessee who hereby hire the following premise ---- for the term of '11 month' ---- and continuing in full force and effect after the above term from the year to year until either the lessor or lessee, on or before the first day of 'MONTH' in any year, gives to the other written notice of intention to terminate this least on the last day of 'MONTH' next after the date of said notice in which the lease hereby created shall terminate in accordance with such notice."

Was this part filled in, in terms of the "MONTH" part?

To me, it looks like the intent was for the lease to be self-renewing for a fixed term (11 months).  That said, what is the "60 days to move out if the place sells" based upon?  Is that also in the lease?
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Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2019, 07:04:44 PM »

Offline Celts Fan 508

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I know this isnt going to help but why do they have to make contracts so difficult to understand?  Why canít they make it so everyone can understand and thus avoid needing to hire lawyers for this stuff? (/rant)
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Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2019, 07:16:02 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Any chance you can afford to buy the place?

Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2019, 08:25:44 PM »

Offline jran12

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this is saying month notice after month 11. you are month to month...

Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2019, 08:28:48 PM »

Online Roy H.

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this is saying month notice after month 11. you are month to month...

Thatís not what it means.
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Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2019, 08:34:47 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Might be worth having a conversation with your landlord. We began selling some of our properties down in FL this past year and, in most cases, waited until the lease was up so that we could get the place in tip-top condition for sale. Of course renting a unit until it sells sounds ideal from a financial perspective, but you are often able to get more money for a clean, renovated, vacant property.

Your landlord might be just as happy to have you move out as have you stay. Just because you talk to him/her does not mean you are not losing your deposit/rent. It really depends on what kind of person you are dealing with. Personally, if I were selling a property and a tenant didn't want to wait around to see whether or not the new owner wanted them to stay, I would gladly let them out of their lease with at most a 30 day notice.

The fact that you have been there past your first lease cycle also works in your favor as you aren't just being flaky.

Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2019, 08:41:44 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Lease appears vague ambiguous and internally inconsistent I can argue you have a year to year lease.

Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2019, 10:39:08 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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Quote
Can anyone tell based on this paragraph if we go month to month after our initial 11 month lease?

"---Lessor herby lease to ----lessee who hereby hire the following premise ---- for the term of '11 month' ---- and continuing in full force and effect after the above term from the year to year until either the lessor or lessee, on or before the first day of 'MONTH' in any year, gives to the other written notice of intention to terminate this least on the last day of 'MONTH' next after the date of said notice in which the lease hereby created shall terminate in accordance with such notice."

Was this part filled in, in terms of the "MONTH" part?

To me, it looks like the intent was for the lease to be self-renewing for a fixed term (11 months).  That said, what is the "60 days to move out if the place sells" based upon?  Is that also in the lease?

Thanks everyone.

Yes the 'month' part was added on a line by the real estate agent. That could have also said 'year'.

The 60 days to move out line was from our landlord's real estate agent. It is 60 days from when the accepted offer is submitted. I believe this is fairly standard practice when selling a house that you are renting out.

We considered buying it but we have issues with the chemicals in the water, our town showed up in a Boston Globe article for towns with PFAS in the water.

We're also saving up for a house and not really looking to stay in a town house for much longer.

Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2019, 10:48:57 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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Might be worth having a conversation with your landlord. We began selling some of our properties down in FL this past year and, in most cases, waited until the lease was up so that we could get the place in tip-top condition for sale. Of course renting a unit until it sells sounds ideal from a financial perspective, but you are often able to get more money for a clean, renovated, vacant property.

Your landlord might be just as happy to have you move out as have you stay. Just because you talk to him/her does not mean you are not losing your deposit/rent. It really depends on what kind of person you are dealing with. Personally, if I were selling a property and a tenant didn't want to wait around to see whether or not the new owner wanted them to stay, I would gladly let them out of their lease with at most a 30 day notice.

The fact that you have been there past your first lease cycle also works in your favor as you aren't just being flaky.

This is an interesting point and definitely one that we've considered, we have so far just been trying to keep our cards close to our chest.

FWIW our landlord is a Chinese lady, who deosnt speak much English and who we don't have any ties to. We've been mainly dealing with her real estate agent so we're trying to keep in mind that they have the landlord's interest ahead of ours.

Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2019, 10:51:35 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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Quote
Can anyone tell based on this paragraph if we go month to month after our initial 11 month lease?

"---Lessor herby lease to ----lessee who hereby hire the following premise ---- for the term of '11 month' ---- and continuing in full force and effect after the above term from the year to year until either the lessor or lessee, on or before the first day of 'MONTH' in any year, gives to the other written notice of intention to terminate this least on the last day of 'MONTH' next after the date of said notice in which the lease hereby created shall terminate in accordance with such notice."

Was this part filled in, in terms of the "MONTH" part?

To me, it looks like the intent was for the lease to be self-renewing for a fixed term (11 months).  That said, what is the "60 days to move out if the place sells" based upon?  Is that also in the lease?

Thanks everyone.

Yes the 'month' part was added on a line by the real estate agent. That could have also said 'year'.

The 60 days to move out line was from our landlord's real estate agent. It is 60 days from when the accepted offer is submitted. I believe this is fairly standard practice when selling a house that you are renting out.

We considered buying it but we have issues with the chemicals in the water, our town showed up in a Boston Globe article for towns with PFAS in the water.

We're also saving up for a house and not really looking to stay in a town house for much longer.
I believe that an existing lease must be honored by the buyer.
Iíd consult with a lawyer or tenants rights advocate before taking the word of the sellers agent.

Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2019, 11:16:32 PM »

Offline matteo

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Quote
Can anyone tell based on this paragraph if we go month to month after our initial 11 month lease?

"---Lessor herby lease to ----lessee who hereby hire the following premise ---- for the term of '11 month' ---- and continuing in full force and effect after the above term from the year to year until either the lessor or lessee, on or before the first day of 'MONTH' in any year, gives to the other written notice of intention to terminate this least on the last day of 'MONTH' next after the date of said notice in which the lease hereby created shall terminate in accordance with such notice."

Was this part filled in, in terms of the "MONTH" part?

To me, it looks like the intent was for the lease to be self-renewing for a fixed term (11 months).  That said, what is the "60 days to move out if the place sells" based upon?  Is that also in the lease?

Thanks everyone.

Yes the 'month' part was added on a line by the real estate agent. That could have also said 'year'.

The 60 days to move out line was from our landlord's real estate agent. It is 60 days from when the accepted offer is submitted. I believe this is fairly standard practice when selling a house that you are renting out.

We considered buying it but we have issues with the chemicals in the water, our town showed up in a Boston Globe article for towns with PFAS in the water.

We're also saving up for a house and not really looking to stay in a town house for much longer.
I believe that an existing lease must be honored by the buyer.
Iíd consult with a lawyer or tenants rights advocate before taking the word of the sellers agent.

correct

Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2019, 11:58:08 PM »

Offline byennie

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One option would be to be more assertive with the real estate agent. Tell him/her that you don't see in the lease how the seller has the right to kick you out, since it's a year-to-year lease and nowhere does it say they can just give you 30/60 days notice. And it's going to cost you time and money to move voluntarily. But since I'm such a nice guy, here's what I can do:

1) I will find a new place

2) Once I have a lease ready to sign at the new place, I will vacate my current apartment within 5 days of the move-in (so you have a little overlap)

3) I want 100% of my security deposit back, no questions asked, because I have moving expenses and am doing the owner a favor by making this easy. I need that money now, to move into my new place.

4) I'll sign something terminating the lease once I have my deposit back.

Keep in mind the real estate agent wants the commission on the sale and as few headaches as possible, and your deposit is probably peanuts in the grand scheme to them.

You can of course always demand more, and if you do want to fight any of it, tenants are well protected under the law.

Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2019, 12:05:27 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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One option would be to be more assertive with the real estate agent. Tell him/her that you don't see in the lease how the seller has the right to kick you out, since it's a year-to-year lease and nowhere does it say they can just give you 30/60 days notice. And it's going to cost you time and money to move voluntarily. But since I'm such a nice guy, here's what I can do:

1) I will find a new place

2) Once I have a lease ready to sign at the new place, I will vacate my current apartment within 5 days of the move-in (so you have a little overlap)

3) I want 100% of my security deposit back, no questions asked, because I have moving expenses and am doing the owner a favor by making this easy. I need that money now, to move into my new place.

4) I'll sign something terminating the lease once I have my deposit back.

Keep in mind the real estate agent wants the commission on the sale and as few headaches as possible, and your deposit is probably peanuts in the grand scheme to them.

You can of course always demand more, and if you do want to fight any of it, tenants are well protected under the law.

In some states the law requires a landlord that is taking the property off the rental market to show proof that the rental property is being taken off the rental market, and in addition a relocation fee fixed by the State must be paid to the tenant.

Re: Question about a lease situation.
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2019, 07:50:06 AM »

Offline buzz4209

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As a landlord (one 40K unit in Lowell, lol) I usually ask  real estate lawyer friend.

MA has a LOT of restrictions on what a landlord can do.

This is a summary related to selling property:

http://www.hannafinlaw.com/blog/property-sold-can-a-landlord-force-tenants-to-leave-once-a-property-is-sold/

Long story short, lease does not end.

That said, in my experience using the standard MA short form lease, it does go month to month after the first year UNLESS both parties sign again, and either party can terminate with 30 days notice.

I thought that this was standard in MA.

Hope that helps.
Buzz

 

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