Poll

Tatum + Memphis pick for JJJ. Would you do it?

Yes
8 (15.7%)
No
32 (62.7%)
I'd only do it straight up. Offering Tatum on his own should get it done.
11 (21.6%)

Total Members Voted: 51

Author Topic: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.  (Read 2877 times)

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Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2019, 12:38:56 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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No thanks.  I want to see what we have  first once we give Tatum the 🔑 to the offense.  Kemba and Tatum together could be really special.

There’s no patience for developing our own players and a grass is greener mentality concerning other prospects.

The kid I’m interested  in if affordable would be mo  bamba.  An athletic defender who could possibly guard the likes of Giannis on the block.

I'm not so sure any of this is about the grass being greener elsewhere as it is a recognition that having too much of the team's talent concentrated in the trio of Brown/Hayward/Tatum isn't the best way to spread your talent across positional groups and maybe someone of equal talent at a different position would be a better fit.  The question is which one being sent out gives you the best return.

The answer won't be trading Tatum for a young player with similar experience.  Teams don't like to swap elite prospects on rookie deals very often.  Usually, both sides see their guy as the more valuable piece, thus there is no middle ground to be found.

Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2019, 01:01:52 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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No thanks

Rather try to trade for Harry Giles for a cheaper cost

Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2019, 02:05:08 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I like Jackson, too, and I’d consider a trade that involved Tatum, possibly including a first. One question and one issue.

The question:why do you consider him a PF rather than a 5? He’s listed at 6’11”, wingspan 7’4”, weight 243. Given his age and build I expect him to add a little weight/strength as he grows into his prime, and he’s not afraid of contact. While he has good foot speed for a center he’s only so-so next to a PF. To me, he’s a center.

The issue: Memphis just drafted Morant and Clarke, who fit well next to JJJ. Swap Tatum in for JJJ and I think they’re unbalanced. Net, I think this ship has sailed.

I can't imagine MEM considers Clarke on the same plane as Morant/JJJ; that's like assuming we couldn't trade for AD because we already have Grant Williams. Tatum and Morant would make a wonderful core moving forward just as JJJ and Morant will.

As for the deal, I'd probably hold off. I really like JJJ, but why are we assuming he is so much better or more valuable than a future premier wing scorer? If we could make the deal straight up, I'd probably do it just for the sake of balance, but we would have to massively overpay. The only way we are going to get a young-ish up and coming big man is if a team makes him available. Danny isn't going to put Tatum on the block, thus lowering his value. He would want Tatum to be the hot commodity.

I hope you’re right about Tatum. After last year I am a lot less optimistic than before.

Conversely I think you’re undervaluing Clarke. If he can shoot the 3, which I believe he will, and if you can play him next to a long 5, which Memphis can, he becomes a very nice 2-way player. People who say he can’t shoot because he didn’t attempt a lot of 3s in college are missing that he was a *very* accurate midrange shooter on good volume. His touch, BBIQ, and work ethic are also all well above average. You just need to put him in a lineup that addresses his lack of length, which Memphis can do while they have jackson.

I believe Tatum suffered as much as anybody from the drama of last season. Not only the discourse in the locker room, but also the lack of defined roles and the constant trade rumors. Tatum will be counted on to officially be our 2nd best player and I think he will live up to that task. People overrate the working out with Kobe thing - I think Tatum's long twos and general disinterest stem a lot more from the issues above. He just seemed to get last season over with...and I don't really blame him.

As for Clarke, you may be right, but Williams was selected one spot after him at 22. It's not like he was particularly highly rated on anybody's draft board. If he succeeds and Williams doesn't, it will more be that MEM was incredibly lucky than anything else. You should never expect much from a #21 pick.

Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2019, 03:41:11 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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Here is a quick list of young bigs that have shown something but aren't established superstars. I've put them in order of what I think their value would be to us:

Jackson MEM
Siakam TOR
Collins ATL

Carter CHI
Turner IND

Gordon ORL
Sabonis IND
Bagley SAC

Allen BKN
Harrell LAC

Kuzma LAL

Isaac ORL
Collins POR
Cauley-Stein SAC

Jackson would be pretty obviously the most expensive player on this list to trade for, followed by Siakam and Collins (ATL). Those three are already pretty sure bets to be make some all-star teams. They are all excellent players but you will have to seriously overpay for them.

After that tier, I think Carter would be the best possible guy for us.  Gordon and Turner both have some flaws, but both are strong two way bigs that would really help us. All the other guys would help.

I can't see going for Jackson, but I could see a case for anyone from Carter through Harrell.

I'm not trading away Tatum unless we get an established star in return.  But I would like a young big.  Turner and Carter interest me.  Not for Tatum, but for Brown.  Brown's next contract scares me.  I suspect he'll get a max and I'm not convinced he's that good.  Brown and the Memphis for Turner.  Not sure about including the Memphis along with Brown for Carter.

Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2019, 04:09:20 PM »

Offline hodgy03038

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I would rather try to get Ibaka.


Flop tough guy

Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2019, 04:20:43 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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I like Jackson, too, and I’d consider a trade that involved Tatum, possibly including a first. One question and one issue.

The question:why do you consider him a PF rather than a 5? He’s listed at 6’11”, wingspan 7’4”, weight 243. Given his age and build I expect him to add a little weight/strength as he grows into his prime, and he’s not afraid of contact. While he has good foot speed for a center he’s only so-so next to a PF. To me, he’s a center.

The issue: Memphis just drafted Morant and Clarke, who fit well next to JJJ. Swap Tatum in for JJJ and I think they’re unbalanced. Net, I think this ship has sailed.

I can't imagine MEM considers Clarke on the same plane as Morant/JJJ; that's like assuming we couldn't trade for AD because we already have Grant Williams. Tatum and Morant would make a wonderful core moving forward just as JJJ and Morant will.

As for the deal, I'd probably hold off. I really like JJJ, but why are we assuming he is so much better or more valuable than a future premier wing scorer? If we could make the deal straight up, I'd probably do it just for the sake of balance, but we would have to massively overpay. The only way we are going to get a young-ish up and coming big man is if a team makes him available. Danny isn't going to put Tatum on the block, thus lowering his value. He would want Tatum to be the hot commodity.

I hope you’re right about Tatum. After last year I am a lot less optimistic than before.

Conversely I think you’re undervaluing Clarke. If he can shoot the 3, which I believe he will, and if you can play him next to a long 5, which Memphis can, he becomes a very nice 2-way player. People who say he can’t shoot because he didn’t attempt a lot of 3s in college are missing that he was a *very* accurate midrange shooter on good volume. His touch, BBIQ, and work ethic are also all well above average. You just need to put him in a lineup that addresses his lack of length, which Memphis can do while they have jackson.

I believe Tatum suffered as much as anybody from the drama of last season. Not only the discourse in the locker room, but also the lack of defined roles and the constant trade rumors. Tatum will be counted on to officially be our 2nd best player and I think he will live up to that task. People overrate the working out with Kobe thing - I think Tatum's long twos and general disinterest stem a lot more from the issues above. He just seemed to get last season over with...and I don't really blame him.

As for Clarke, you may be right, but Williams was selected one spot after him at 22. It's not like he was particularly highly rated on anybody's draft board. If he succeeds and Williams doesn't, it will more be that MEM was incredibly lucky than anything else. You should never expect much from a #21 pick.

Yeah, I could be wrong. Some of the draft wiseguys on the Internet (I won’t call them experts) made what sounded to me like a pretty good case for drafting Clarke higher. We’ll see. I do like his fit with that core. It’s really hard to figure where our pick is going to land. Seems a stretch for Memphis to be in the playoffs, but I could see them anywhere from 4th-10th worst record. Best for them is winning the lottery and adding a piece; I won’t be surprised if it conveys next year tho.

Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2019, 05:56:39 PM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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JJJ is going to be a beast. Memphis wouldn't do this trade so I'm not sure how worthwhile this discussion is.
Yo pretty boy. I looked up basketball player in the dictionary and it said 'Not you!'

Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2019, 06:20:43 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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I'd do it in a heartbeat. Jaren Jackson, Jr. is the perfect modern NBA big. He has the potential to be able to do it all on the court.

The question is will Memphis? I don't see them doing it.
2019 CStrong Historical Draft Detroit Pistons.

PG: J. Stockton, D. Harper
SG: J. Havlicek, M. Cooper, P. Maravich
SF: K. Leonard, J. Butler
PF: E. Hayes, L. Nance, Sr., H. Turkoglu
C : A. Mourning, D. Mutombo

Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2019, 07:06:37 PM »

Offline Silky

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I would rather try to get Ibaka.

Hayward for ibaka could work.

Boston gets a proper bigman and makes space for all the wings.

Toronto replaces leonard and gives another go.


Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2019, 07:24:35 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I would rather try to get Ibaka.

Hayward for ibaka could work.

Boston gets a proper bigman and makes space for all the wings.

Toronto replaces leonard and gives another go.

If Toronto replacing Kawhi with Hayward gives them another go at a championship, then I would be asking for a heck of a lot more than Ibaka from them. Actually, if Hayward is that valuable, then no way am I giving him up!

Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2019, 09:15:34 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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No way I'm trading Tatum for JJJ, much less Tatum plus other assets.

And at some point it will occur to Celtics fans that Ainge and CBS don't value big men nearly as much as the board does.

Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2019, 05:07:49 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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No way I'm trading Tatum for JJJ, much less Tatum plus other assets.

And at some point it will occur to Celtics fans that Ainge and CBS don't value big men nearly as much as the board does.
Agree.

BS probably loves what he has and plans to use only one big per lineup regardless what we all think. With Hayward and Tatum he probably feels they can both cover PFs at a decent enough level that their offense more than makes up the difference.
Trade deadline mock team: Celtics,
Irving, Rozier, Wanna
Smart, Robinson, Dozier
Tatum, Morris, Semi
Griffin, Theis, Yab
Horford, Baynes, Williams

Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2019, 06:20:21 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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No way I'm trading Tatum for JJJ, much less Tatum plus other assets.

And at some point it will occur to Celtics fans that Ainge and CBS don't value big men nearly as much as the board does.
Agree.

BS probably loves what he has and plans to use only one big per lineup regardless what we all think. With Hayward and Tatum he probably feels they can both cover PFs at a decent enough level that their offense more than makes up the difference.

Well, there's a difference between being forced to play small and doing it intentionally. If they're being totally truthful, I doubt Ainge or Stevens would say the current lineup is ideal. If they had a versatile 6'9'' to 7'0'' type guy it's not like they wouldn't play him. It's just Horford's departure has left them without an immediate replacement.

You can't play small all the time. Even GS only used their Hampton's lineup as a trump card. Long term, SFs do not want to be playing the 4 all the time, especially during the regular season.

I feel like some C's fans just throw our five best dudes in the lineup and are a little overly optimistic about how it's going to play out. Just because Tatum and Hayward have some height doesn't mean you can simply pencil them in at 4 and say "done, and done!" Honestly, if they had to play 4 for most of the season they're going to want out. You have to have a guy who is willing to do all the grunt work on D. It's not easy to find somebody who is willing to do all that thankless stuff if they're a player who has any worth on offense. It's got to be somebody with a dogged, defensive mentality and selfless attitude. Tatum is trying to be an offensive superstar and he's only what, 21 years old? He's not going to do that. Even if he wanted to, he doesn't have the body to.

This team is a work-in-progress and their identity is not going to be defense. They simply don't have the personnel.
Yo pretty boy. I looked up basketball player in the dictionary and it said 'Not you!'

Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2019, 06:50:34 AM »

Offline JBcat

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No way I'm trading Tatum for JJJ, much less Tatum plus other assets.

And at some point it will occur to Celtics fans that Ainge and CBS don't value big men nearly as much as the board does.
Agree.

BS probably loves what he has and plans to use only one big per lineup regardless what we all think. With Hayward and Tatum he probably feels they can both cover PFs at a decent enough level that their offense more than makes up the difference.

Well, there's a difference between being forced to play small and doing it intentionally. If they're being totally truthful, I doubt Ainge or Stevens would say the current lineup is ideal. If they had a versatile 6'9'' to 7'0'' type guy it's not like they wouldn't play him. It's just Horford's departure has left them without an immediate replacement.

You can't play small all the time. Even GS only used their Hampton's lineup as a trump card. Long term, SFs do not want to be playing the 4 all the time, especially during the regular season.

I feel like some C's fans just throw our five best dudes in the lineup and are a little overly optimistic about how it's going to play out. Just because Tatum and Hayward have some height doesn't mean you can simply pencil them in at 4 and say "done, and done!" Honestly, if they had to play 4 for most of the season they're going to want out. You have to have a guy who is willing to do all the grunt work on D. It's not easy to find somebody who is willing to do all that thankless stuff if they're a player who has any worth on offense. It's got to be somebody with a dogged, defensive mentality and selfless attitude. Tatum is trying to be an offensive superstar and he's only what, 21 years old? He's not going to do that. Even if he wanted to, he doesn't have the body to.

This team is a work-in-progress and their identity is not going to be defense. They simply don't have the personnel.

Yep, and I think there is a way you can get close to maximizing their skills without playing one of them at the 4 close to full time.

It could look something like this.

PG Walker 32 MPG Smart 16 MPG
SG Brown 32 MPG Smart 16 MPG
SF Tatum 32 MPG Hayward 16 MPG
PF Hayward 16 MPG, bigs 32 MPG
C bigs 48 minutes

In this scenario you have all our very important wings and ball handlers playing 32 minutes per game, and only require 16 of those minutes to be at PF.  You could even say split 8 and 8 between Tatum and Hayward at PF to share the burden at PF. 

Depending on matchups you can go to it a little more or a little less of small ball without being overly reliant on it.

Of course this also leaves 80 minutes for our bigs where they would need to come through.  Something like 25 minutes for Kanter, 15 minutes for each of the Williams,  15 for Poirier, 10 for Theis.  Maybe Semi gets some minutes at the 4. 

I’d rather see how this plays out, and you can look into a trade later in the season if you want.

Re: Idea: Jaren Jackson Jr.
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2019, 06:59:16 AM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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The Celtics aren’t “forced” to play small. They’ve had plenty of opportunities to get bigger and rarely do so. No matter how many threads to the contrary, it’s what CBS wants to do, and the league in general is moving that direction.

 

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