Author Topic: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford  (Read 3284 times)

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Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2019, 01:03:09 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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My only concern is how will Langford get playing time with Brown, Smart, and Hayward all getting playing time at SG.

There's no question about Langford's talent, he is very talented.
The question is how will he get playing time?

Steve Bulpett said the Celts are not done dealing because the Celts don't believe they're a contender right now.

If that's the case then maybe Brown, Smart, or Langford will not finish the season with the Celts.
I think Smart will be spending lots of time at PG and Hayward will be spending lots of time in the SF-PF role that Mook played (but I expect Hayward to get more minutes).

So this means Tatum will play a lot of PF?

If Tatum can play PF then it's sort of problem solved.
But if Tatum can't play PF on a regular basis then Langford will get a lot of DNPs this coming season.

Also, Carsen will get minutes at PG and some at SG.
I expect Tatum to get minutes at PF. I also think we'll see Grant Williams get quite a few minutes. Considering Langford is the youngest of our rooks I think him playing in Maine wouldn't be the worst thing either though. I think it was one of our biggest mistakes of last season to not play Rob Williams a lot in Maine
I haven't seen much NBA development from prospects playing in the G league.  If you're going to become an NBA player, you've got to play against actual NBA players. RW needed actual meaningful NBA minutes last season to develop.  I hope to heck Ainge tells Stevens to focus on player development not wins this season.
If it worked for Toronto I'm happy to give it a try
Who'd it work for on Toronto? 

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2019, 01:29:44 AM »

Offline RPGenerate

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My only concern is how will Langford get playing time with Brown, Smart, and Hayward all getting playing time at SG.

There's no question about Langford's talent, he is very talented.
The question is how will he get playing time?

Steve Bulpett said the Celts are not done dealing because the Celts don't believe they're a contender right now.

If that's the case then maybe Brown, Smart, or Langford will not finish the season with the Celts.
I think Smart will be spending lots of time at PG and Hayward will be spending lots of time in the SF-PF role that Mook played (but I expect Hayward to get more minutes).

So this means Tatum will play a lot of PF?

If Tatum can play PF then it's sort of problem solved.
But if Tatum can't play PF on a regular basis then Langford will get a lot of DNPs this coming season.

Also, Carsen will get minutes at PG and some at SG.
I expect Tatum to get minutes at PF. I also think we'll see Grant Williams get quite a few minutes. Considering Langford is the youngest of our rooks I think him playing in Maine wouldn't be the worst thing either though. I think it was one of our biggest mistakes of last season to not play Rob Williams a lot in Maine
I haven't seen much NBA development from prospects playing in the G league.  If you're going to become an NBA player, you've got to play against actual NBA players. RW needed actual meaningful NBA minutes last season to develop.  I hope to heck Ainge tells Stevens to focus on player development not wins this season.
If it worked for Toronto I'm happy to give it a try
Who'd it work for on Toronto?
Pascal Siakam and Fred VanFleet spent quite a bit of time in the D-league in his first year, and Siakam was the D-league finals MVP.
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Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2019, 04:54:50 AM »

Online rollie mass

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Tybule
I think it strange that people can be down on Edwards or Langford in any way. Remember, both are now Celtics because Danny fleeced the Sixers into giving up extra assets just to assure they got the players they wanted. The Sixers desperately wanted Markelle Fultz in 2017 and Matisse Thybulle this year and Boston was in front of them in both drafts. So, Danny ended up trading down in both drafts with Philly and ended up with trades that ended up being:

Jayson Tatum and Romeo Langford for Markelle Fultz.

Grant Williams and Carsen Edwards for Matisse Thybulle

Now, Ainge most likely would have taken both Tatum and Williams in the draft positions they traded out of, but Philly thought their guys would be taken, so they gave up extra assets just to get their guys.

Their guys ended up being Markelle Fultz, a complete bust of a #1 pick, and Matisse Thybulle, who, it can be argued, showed less in Summer League than either of the two guys the Celtics took.

The Celtics got their guys, Tatum and Williams, but parlayed Philly's impatience and uncertainty of getting their guys, into Romeo Langford and Carsen Edwards. Now, Langford, we have not seen because of hand surgery but he was a top 5 high school recruit and, along with Edwards, probably the two best guards in the Big Ten this year. Edwards had a stellar Summer League and earned himself a nice 4 year deal as a 2nd rounder. Both have high ceilings and could be real steals for where they were taken in a bad draft.

Regardless, they are bonuses gotten because Danny convinced the Sixers they should give up other assets to get their guys. If both player's become rotational players or better(all the way up to stars) then Danny just completed two heists upon their old rivals.

So let's all cheer for and hope that Romeo and Carsen become great players and long term Celtics. That way Philly can see the great players they gave up, to get, hopefully, two complete busts.

Maybe this makes everyone feel better about Sixers stealing Horford.

This is one trade that has the potential to come back to bite the Celtics. Watching both Williams and Carsen during the Summer League I was impressed. And, together they appear to have a lot more value than Thybulle.

One area Thybulle does excel at is perimeter defense. And, that is one aspect of the game the Celtics have lacked over the past couple seasons. Matisse has long arms and bothers shots. Since the NBA has virtually become a 3 point shooting contest, having someone who can act as a disrupter could prove invaluable.

Whenever I watched the Celtics lose games, there almost always was one or two players that couldn't miss from outside the arc. Even with Smart on defense they simply shot over him. Thybulle has the ability to stay close to his man. And, even if he isn't within 4 feet of the man, he closes in quickly and can sometimes block shots.  As of now there isn't anyone on the Celtics nearly as good as Thybulle on guarding the perimeter - including Smart.

Maybe Devonte Green can fill that role of a perimeter stopper - should he make the team. Otherwise, I predict we'll be reenacting the same story over and over again, e.g., we'll stay close for 2-3 quarters. Then, one, two or three opposing players will light it up from the arc causing the Celtics to falter. Sure I hope I'm wrong.     

So, a guy who hasn't played an NBA game is better defensively than an NBA All Defensive first teamer?

I can't say Thybulle will be a better defensive player than Smart. But, judging from his college highlight videos and his Summer League performances I believe he'll disrupt or block a lot more shots at the perimeter than Smart will. I can almost guarantee this will be a sore point throughout the season.
As for Green filling the role as a great perimeter defender, I'm being more hopeful than realistic.   

Thybulle played in a zone system.I'm sure he will be disruptive in the passing lanes but Marcus probably has the perfect build and core strength for getting over screens.Remember rookie Marcus ramming a Cousins  screen and the Cousin reaction..Marcus is a gifted NBA defender.

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2019, 08:18:34 AM »

Online saltlover

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Grant Williams and Carsen Edwards for Matisse Thybulle



Minor correction:   Ty Jerome (24th) and Carsen Edwards (33rd) for Matisse Thybulle

Grant Williams was picked (22nd) with C's own pick.

Ty Jerome and Aron Baynes then went to Suns for Bucks 1st rd pick next year.

For about a half an hour or so a lot of stuff was happening quickly for the C's on draft night.  :)
That's all true. So, my bad, my general thinking is that: Ainge liked and wanted Williams and if he didn't trade the Thybulle pick, would have taken Williams there. But he knew he could get him later so moved the Thybulle pick and in doing so got the early second that turned into Edwards and could still draft the man he originally wanted higher in the draft, Grant Williams.

Based on Memphis trading up from 23 to 21 to leapfrog us at 22, I think it likely that we would have taken Brandon Clarke at 20 had we passed on Thubulle.
I think all Memphis trading up proves is that Memphis thought Boston was taking Clarke. It proves nothing about who Boston would have chosen if both were there. If you have seen a report from someone credible that says they have contacts telling them Clarke was the pick if Memphis didn't trade up and take him, help me out. I haven't seen them.

What I did see was a report that Boston told Williams he wouldn't be selected at 14 but be prepared because Boston will be looking at him using a later pick. I haven't seen anything that Boston was talking to Clarke.

Iím pretty comfortable with the assumption that Boston would have picked Clarke.  Teams tend to know these things ó thatís really the entire premise of the discussion isnít it, that Boston knew Philly wanted Thybulle and so picked him to get value from Philly?

Now probably Clarke wasnít in another tier of players from Williams, so that Boston was willing to risk losing Clarke because they liked Williams nearly as much.

But what we got from Philly and immediately related moves was:

Edwards
1st from Milwaukee
Max cap space with which to sign Kemba Walker

And that seems like a fine deal for snatching Thybulle from them.

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2019, 10:22:13 AM »

Online Celtics4ever

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Quote
Thybulle played in a zone system.I'm sure he will be disruptive in the passing lanes

I just did not see the elite defense that was touted prior to the draft in summer league.

I think the way to beat Philly will be to exploit their guards and run them into the ground.   Gimp Knee Embiid will get tired sooner that way.  One thing with Kanter is we have a good rebound to start the fast break.  I hope we run more and do more transition offense.

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2019, 10:36:19 AM »

Offline Alleyoopster

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Quote
Thybulle played in a zone system.I'm sure he will be disruptive in the passing lanes

I just did not see the elite defense that was touted prior to the draft in summer league.

I think the way to beat Philly will be to exploit their guards and run them into the ground.   Gimp Knee Embiid will get tired sooner that way.  One thing with Kanter is we have a good rebound to start the fast break.  I hope we run more and do more transition offense.

In the NBA there's no such thing as elite defense when someone is jacking them up from 23-27 feet away and swishing basket after basket.

What I'm saying is Thybulle might come the closest to pressuring those 'hot' players because he possesses a good combination of speed, strength and length.

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2019, 10:58:32 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Quote
Thybulle played in a zone system.I'm sure he will be disruptive in the passing lanes

I just did not see the elite defense that was touted prior to the draft in summer league.

I think the way to beat Philly will be to exploit their guards and run them into the ground.   Gimp Knee Embiid will get tired sooner that way.  One thing with Kanter is we have a good rebound to start the fast break.  I hope we run more and do more transition offense.
That's easier said than done.  When we played Horford and Baynes together, did teams run us into the ground?  The best thing you can do for transition defense is get a big back guarding the basket.  When Embiid and Horford are sharing the floor, one of them is going to be at 3pt line most of the time and he'll get back when the shot goes up.  The Sixers are replacing Butler and Redick with Richardson and Horford.  That's a big improvement in their defense including their transition defense.  They were only 14th in defense during the regular season.  They should be a lot better than that next season. 

As for Thybulle, there were plenty of questions about how good he actually was on defense especially because of his playing in the zone.  His disruptive capabilities on defense were mostly talked about not his on ball defense.  In summer league, he showed those disruptive defensive capabilities and also shot the 3 well.  He looked like the RoCo replacement that they need. 

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2019, 11:48:07 AM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Itís real way too early to congratulate ourselves for rookies who havenít played a lick of nba ball yet.

Hopefully at least one of them will be at least Avery Bradley level.  That would be a good draft considering our later draft position.

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2019, 01:47:05 PM »

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Waaay too early to tell bout these 2 guys
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2019, 02:53:28 PM »

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Itís real way too early to congratulate ourselves for rookies who havenít played a lick of nba ball yet.

Hopefully at least one of them will be at least Avery Bradley level.  That would be a good draft considering our later draft position.

Obviously nothing significant has been learned about the rookies yet.  However, with the 4 drafted rooks, Tacko, Evonte and Bob - isnít there a better than usual feel that one of these might strike gold?

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #40 on: July 21, 2019, 03:05:09 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Itís real way too early to congratulate ourselves for rookies who havenít played a lick of nba ball yet.

Hopefully at least one of them will be at least Avery Bradley level.  That would be a good draft considering our later draft position.
Itís not that these guys are great so much as we got them for free.

The assumption is that without the trades weíd have Grant and Tatum anyway (but at 1 and 20 rather than 3 and 22) but because of the trades we get Edwards and Langford for free effectively
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Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2019, 06:05:36 PM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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I don't know how clever it was to take Thybulle, really. It seemed like a d---- move to me. It's not like other franchises didn't know the Sixers coveted Thybulle, but they didn't attempt this kind of extortion.

I wonder if the Celtics already knew at the time Philly was throwing offers at Horford? And as someone mentioned, I wonder if it hurt any chance we had at a sign and trade when Horford eventually did sign there. Karma is a, well, you know.
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Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2019, 06:25:33 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I don't know how clever it was to take Thybulle, really. It seemed like a d---- move to me. It's not like other franchises didn't know the Sixers coveted Thybulle, but they didn't attempt this kind of extortion.

I wonder if the Celtics already knew at the time Philly was throwing offers at Horford? And as someone mentioned, I wonder if it hurt any chance we had at a sign and trade when Horford eventually did sign there. Karma is a, well, you know.

It was a genius move in my opinion - unless Danny really wanted Clarke and he outsmarted himself. There is no love lost between BOS and PHI; making them choke up Edwards for the ability to choose the player they wanted was just Danny up to his old tricks again.

I agree that doing this to another franchise we had a good relationship with may not have been ideal (look at what's happening with NYK and SAS right now), but it's Philly...oh well for them.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 06:40:05 PM by jambr380 »

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #43 on: July 21, 2019, 06:28:46 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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I don't know how clever it was to take Thybulle, really. It seemed like a d---- move to me. It's not like other franchises didn't know the Sixers coveted Thybulle, but they didn't attempt this kind of extortion.

I wonder if the Celtics already knew at the time Philly was throwing offers at Horford? And as someone mentioned, I wonder if it hurt any chance we had at a sign and trade when Horford eventually did sign there. Karma is a, well, you know.

why and how did it come to be known that Sixers wanted Thybulle? Why did they want him, and why couldnt they keep it to themselves?

Re: Gotta remember to thank Sixers for Edwards and Langford
« Reply #44 on: July 21, 2019, 07:24:00 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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I don't know how clever it was to take Thybulle, really. It seemed like a d---- move to me. It's not like other franchises didn't know the Sixers coveted Thybulle, but they didn't attempt this kind of extortion.

I wonder if the Celtics already knew at the time Philly was throwing offers at Horford? And as someone mentioned, I wonder if it hurt any chance we had at a sign and trade when Horford eventually did sign there. Karma is a, well, you know.

It was a genius move in my opinion - unless Danny really wanted Clarke and he outsmarted himself. There is no love lost between BOS and PHI; making them choke up Edwards for the ability to choose the player they wanted was just Danny up to his old tricks again.

I agree that doing this to another franchise we had a good relationship with may not have been ideal (look at what's happening with NYK and SAS right now), but it's Philly...oh well for them.
The trade was the #20 for #24 and #33.  Neither the Celtics or Sixers could be sure Edwards would still be available at #33.  I don't think the Sixers had any intention of drafting Edwards or anyone else at the top of the 2nd round.  They traded the #33, #34 and #41 picks and only took someone at #54. 

There was lots of griping from Sixers fans about them trading all those 2nds but Bland's response was they had enough young players to incorporate already.  They traded away 3 of 4 2nds in the previous draft too.  Not valuing 2nds has become a pattern for the Sixers.