Author Topic: Windhorst: Ainge was "really upset" about tampering in regards to Horford  (Read 4291 times)

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Offline gpap

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Regarding Horford, I think Al was a bit piqued when Ainge didn't give him some help up front in the stretch when Baynes went down. Horford is not a dominant player, and he had his hands full without up front help. Everybody thought Ainge was holding his chips for Davis, but he apparently changed his mind. Obviously, Tatum would have sealed the Davis deal, but he backed off on Tatum, and the Lakers found themselves competing with themselves--and the Pelicans who didn't have to trade him pre-season.

Ainge suddenly found himself short of bigs, especially with the other good teams stacking up on them. So he went out and got Kanter (good sign if he plays to his strengths inside) and Poirier (an unknown by NBA standards) and Tacko Fall ( a very tall shot in the dark). We'll see how all this plays out.

TP, I think so too. Having to bang with the big centers in this league, be the sole rim protector, be the prime rebounder, set screens, initiate the offense from the post and stretch the floor, Horford had a lot of responsibilities. He must have missed a Millsap or Baynes to help him out. Now in Philadelphia he has Embiid to share a lot of the dirty work.

I agree. I also wonder if Horford got ticked by Ainge hoping to restructure Horford's contract to a more team friendly deal. Alot of these guys have giant egos and probably don't like hearing stuff like that. Whatever....I just wish Ainge would replace the gap left behind by Horford.

Offline tenn_smoothie

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Another reason to dislike Al Horford.

He blew the Celtics off instead at least giving them a chance to match the offer or come close.

Not that I'm an Ainge defender, but something with Horford signing with the Sixers really doesn't sit well with me (not like Horford cares.)

Does not sit well with me either.

Everyone recognizes the Celts-Lakers rivalry, but actually, Celts-Sixers has been just as intense over the years and a playoff matchup has occurred more often. How can you beat Russell vs Wilt in those ECF's from the 60's and then Cowens vs Dawkins in 1977 and of course, Bird vs Erving in the 80's. Remember when Max went into the seats after a fan in the Spectrum in that unbelievable game 6 in 1981 ? Celts came back from down 3-1 and went on to win the title against Moses and the Rockets. Loved those days.
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Online Roy H.

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Another reason to dislike Al Horford.

He blew the Celtics off instead at least giving them a chance to match the offer or come close.

Not that I'm an Ainge defender, but something with Horford signing with the Sixers really doesn't sit well with me (not like Horford cares.)

Yeah I agree. I lost some respect with the fact he went there and blew them off too.

Where is it reported that Al blew the Celtics off?

According to the Celtics, they’re mad that Al “knew his market”. That sounds like they’re angry that they couldn’t get Al to commit to a below-market contract.

If the Celtics had met that market, there’s no indication that he would have left.
It was reported by Mannix(I heard it him on WEEI), as well as Jackie M, I think, that when Horford opted out, he cut off all conversations with Ainge because he already had a mystery team out there willing to pay Horford money that Ainge was not near in his negotiations with Horford to that point. They could have extended the date for Al to opt in or out another week or more to continue talks but Al just shut down talks and opted out. His decision was seemingly already made.

Now, I don't remember if after that there were reports of Ainge and Horford having anymore talks or if Al gave the Celtics a chance to match, but at that point, when Al opted out, he did shut down talks with Ainge. Maybe that is what Drinkin....(sorry name is too long so from now on your just Drinkin to me) ....was referencing.

I wonder how much of that is pro-organization spin.  Here's what the Globe reported as this stuff was going down:

Quote
    The Horford news took the Celtics by surprise. They fully expected him to return on a three-year, $60 million extension, which would have benefited both sides in offering Horford security and the team salary-cap relief. But there is a mystery team that is believed to have offered Horford a four-year, $100 million-plus deal. ...

    The Celtics are planning to move on, and they likely won’t talk with Horford before free agency begins. That’s why talks cut off so soon. Boston had no plans to offer a fourth year and Horford’s representatives believe they already have a deal in place.

At the time, it was reported as the Celtics cutting off communication, as if there was nothing further to talk about.  Logically, that makes sense, and fits in with Danny as a negotiator.  The Celts were thinking $20 per year for three years, Horford got offered $26 million for 3.5 years, and Danny ended the conversation.


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Offline Fafnir

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I also think that once Kemba agreed pretty quickly they tried to reopen negotiations, upping the offer to closer (maybe even matching), but Horford was committed at that point.

Online Roy H.

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I also think that once Kemba agreed pretty quickly they tried to reopen negotiations, upping the offer to closer (maybe even matching), but Horford was committed at that point.

Yeah, I think that also probably makes sense.


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Offline nickagneta

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Another reason to dislike Al Horford.

He blew the Celtics off instead at least giving them a chance to match the offer or come close.

Not that I'm an Ainge defender, but something with Horford signing with the Sixers really doesn't sit well with me (not like Horford cares.)

Yeah I agree. I lost some respect with the fact he went there and blew them off too.

Where is it reported that Al blew the Celtics off?

According to the Celtics, they’re mad that Al “knew his market”. That sounds like they’re angry that they couldn’t get Al to commit to a below-market contract.

If the Celtics had met that market, there’s no indication that he would have left.
It was reported by Mannix(I heard it him on WEEI), as well as Jackie M, I think, that when Horford opted out, he cut off all conversations with Ainge because he already had a mystery team out there willing to pay Horford money that Ainge was not near in his negotiations with Horford to that point. They could have extended the date for Al to opt in or out another week or more to continue talks but Al just shut down talks and opted out. His decision was seemingly already made.

Now, I don't remember if after that there were reports of Ainge and Horford having anymore talks or if Al gave the Celtics a chance to match, but at that point, when Al opted out, he did shut down talks with Ainge. Maybe that is what Drinkin....(sorry name is too long so from now on your just Drinkin to me) ....was referencing.

I wonder how much of that is pro-organization spin.  Here's what the Globe reported as this stuff was going down:

Quote
    The Horford news took the Celtics by surprise. They fully expected him to return on a three-year, $60 million extension, which would have benefited both sides in offering Horford security and the team salary-cap relief. But there is a mystery team that is believed to have offered Horford a four-year, $100 million-plus deal. ...

    The Celtics are planning to move on, and they likely won’t talk with Horford before free agency begins. That’s why talks cut off so soon. Boston had no plans to offer a fourth year and Horford’s representatives believe they already have a deal in place.

At the time, it was reported as the Celtics cutting off communication, as if there was nothing further to talk about.  Logically, that makes sense, and fits in with Danny as a negotiator.  The Celts were thinking $20 per year for three years, Horford got offered $26 million for 3.5 years, and Danny ended the conversation.
Yeah, on sports radio in Boston, Mannix, Jackie and others reported Horford went dark on the team once he opted out. It was a fairly big story on Boston sports radio for a couple days. Don't remember which day it was but Ordway, Merloni and Fauria had Mannix on and he was definitely selling Horford having cut things off. Bulpett mentioned in an article that Horford's team of people abruptly ended talks. It was coming from a bunch of sources.

Offline tstorey_97

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You can almost believe the story, even though Celtics management had plenty of time to set up "their own" player....in whatever way that may be.

The reason? The Celtics do not have a power forward beyond a big wing or two, Semi, a rookie and some euro thumpers.

This might be "Grant Williams Jackpot time."

Offline gpap

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You can almost believe the story, even though Celtics management had plenty of time to set up "their own" player....in whatever way that may be.

The reason? The Celtics do not have a power forward beyond a big wing or two, Semi, a rookie and some euro thumpers.

This might be "Grant Williams Jackpot time."

He's only a rookie. Will do a great job, but it's alot to ask of a rookie to fill those shoes.

Offline Kuberski33

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It sounds to me like the Celtics misread the market on Al. With so many teams having money to spend they should have anticipated someone coming in and overpaying and done what they could to lock up Al ahead of time.  It could well be that the Sixers offer was contingent on him agreeing right away and breaking off talks the Celtics.

My guess is that the 'upset with tampering' story comes from Wyc and is designed to put out word to the league that he's going to be a hard liner about changes being made to the free agency process moving forward.

Online SparzWizard

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If they're so upset about losing Horford, then just pay him that money sheeeesh

Offline ozgod

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If they're so upset about losing Horford, then just pay him that money sheeeesh

Agree. Ultimately they had the power to retain him by matching the offer...unless the appeal of playing the 4 instead of the 5 was worth more to Al than staying in Boston, given equal money.
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Offline philr13

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Important to keep in mind that ultimately Kemba Walker came to Boston in a sign-and-trade. It's pretty hard to make the argument that tampering took place, even if it did. Charlotte negotiated a double sign-and-trade with Boston. They're not going to complain to the league about tampering.

Horford, on the other hand, reportedly had a deal on the table from an unnamed team long before the moratorium ended and broke off negotiations with Boston. That's the very definition of tampering.

It is certainly worth Boston's while to approach the league about this. At the very least they might prevent this from happening again. 

Online tazzmaniac

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Important to keep in mind that ultimately Kemba Walker came to Boston in a sign-and-trade. It's pretty hard to make the argument that tampering took place, even if it did. Charlotte negotiated a double sign-and-trade with Boston. They're not going to complain to the league about tampering.

Horford, on the other hand, reportedly had a deal on the table from an unnamed team long before the moratorium ended and broke off negotiations with Boston. That's the very definition of tampering.

It is certainly worth Boston's while to approach the league about this. At the very least they might prevent this from happening again.
No it isn't.  Did you see all the deals being reported right when free agency struck?  The whole league was tampering which is why Silver is talking about getting rid of rules that aren't enforceable. 

Offline philr13

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Important to keep in mind that ultimately Kemba Walker came to Boston in a sign-and-trade. It's pretty hard to make the argument that tampering took place, even if it did. Charlotte negotiated a double sign-and-trade with Boston. They're not going to complain to the league about tampering.

Horford, on the other hand, reportedly had a deal on the table from an unnamed team long before the moratorium ended and broke off negotiations with Boston. That's the very definition of tampering.

It is certainly worth Boston's while to approach the league about this. At the very least they might prevent this from happening again.
No it isn't.  Did you see all the deals being reported right when free agency struck?  The whole league was tampering which is why Silver is talking about getting rid of rules that aren't enforceable.

I saw all of it. The League responds to complaints about tampering.

Several of the deals, Durant, Russell, Walker, Butler, Rozier, were sign-and-trades. Tampering may have taken place but both teams were satisfied and no complaints were filed.

Horford stopped talking to the Celtics as early as June 18th. The Celtics did not get an opportunity to negotiate with him. They have grounds for a complaint.

Online saltlover

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Important to keep in mind that ultimately Kemba Walker came to Boston in a sign-and-trade. It's pretty hard to make the argument that tampering took place, even if it did. Charlotte negotiated a double sign-and-trade with Boston. They're not going to complain to the league about tampering.

Horford, on the other hand, reportedly had a deal on the table from an unnamed team long before the moratorium ended and broke off negotiations with Boston. That's the very definition of tampering.

It is certainly worth Boston's while to approach the league about this. At the very least they might prevent this from happening again.
No it isn't.  Did you see all the deals being reported right when free agency struck?  The whole league was tampering which is why Silver is talking about getting rid of rules that aren't enforceable.

It’s a different thing if a player declines an option because of tampering than if teams start negotiating with free agents early.  Now we don’t know, and maybe the league will never know should they bother to look into it, if Philly is the team that induced Horford to decline his option — maybe there was another team that tampered and Philly hopped in after the option was declined — but they are not the same thing.

 

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