Poll

Who should be the starting PF

Robert Williams
3 (3.4%)
Grant Williams
13 (14.6%)
Gordon Hayward
65 (73%)
Daniel Theis
8 (9%)

Total Members Voted: 89

Author Topic: Poll: Who should be the starting PF  (Read 5317 times)

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Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2019, 09:54:50 AM »

Offline Donoghus

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Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2019, 09:59:11 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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I think Hayward has to be the pick if he's healthy which I expect he will be. I would think he would be the first person subbed in for on most nights and will really only end up playing PF 12 mpg.

The bigger question is who plays the last 5 minutes of the game?

Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2019, 10:05:01 AM »

Offline Birdman

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If none was there, i would click on that..we have no one to play PF
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2019, 10:12:58 AM »

Offline tstorey_97

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A thought on something directly related here.

I think it is obvious, based on his career, that Hayward is the "best" player on the team, or, tied with Walker.

Thus, the natural inclination is to have your "best" player start.

I am wondering if that is really the plan.

I suggest, in answer to this particular question, that the starting line up will feature:
Walker
Brown
Tatum
Theis or Grant or Semi
Kanter

Off the bench
Hayward/Smart/Edwards

An argument can be made that these players above are
going to get "all" the minutes.

I understand that Theis, Semi and Grant Williams are bench players, but, I don't remember seeing Stevens "go small" that often in the first 7 or 8 minutes of a game and Danny Ainge has not supplied a "power forward" for this year's team beyond a rookie and some bench guys.

None of this has anything to do with Hayward beyond...what the hell is Ainge thinking not replacing Horford? It jerks the line up around and puts bench guys to close to starting roles.

Thus, I've just gotten out of the meeting with the Ainge's and Stevens.

Danny stated he's "working on" some potential trades to solve the issue.

Stevens doesn't want to start Hayward as, if there is a problem with his play in the first 20 games? He doesn't want the pressure/drama of demoting him. I really think this is in play. Last season was a disaster for the team including Hayward....remember?

I suggest Grant will play into the starting role barring a trade. Grant is square on defense and has the SEC record for most consecutive foul shots made or something like that. Despite the fact that he's small, he works underneath really well with guys that are bigger than he is which is just about everybody. Watch the highlights of Tennessee Florida. Grant is the smallest guy on the court.

I hope Ainge gets a veteran power forward in here, but, the above option is on the table....along with, of course, re signing Sullinger.

In the meantime? Hayward goes for sixth man award which may, in fact, give him more influence on the team than starting.


« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 10:19:40 AM by tstorey_97 »

Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2019, 10:28:39 AM »

Online Green-18

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There's no straight answer to this since we know that Hayward and Tatum will be starting together.  The idea of positions only applies on the defensive end.  Even then, we should expect to see plenty of switching. 

I'm assuming Tatum will cover the opposing teams PF in any match-up where there isn't a major strength disadvantage.  He is a solid rebounder when he makes it a priority.  Hayward will likely need to battle it out against more physical PF's, especially if they are skilled on offense.  As a general rule of thumb, I believe Gordon will have the more difficult defensive match-ups on a nightly basis. 

Whether or not this works is dependent upon the success of the offense.  On paper, much like last years group, the starting lineup should be able to score at an elite level.  If this happens then the defensive end of the floor with take care of itself against most teams.



Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2019, 11:03:33 AM »

Offline Walker Wiggle

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I'm not even sure the question is relevant. Are there still power forwards in the NBA today?

A better question to debate would be: Against (for instance) the Sixers, who guards Al Horford? That is, for teams that start two bigs rather than one, who plays "up" on defense?

This will change from team-to-team, and game to game. But I think Stevens ultimately will choose to start his five best players on the floor, even if none looks like a traditional power forward.

Remember that this is exactly what he did at the start of 2017-18, minutes before Hayward broke his leg. The starting lineup for game 1 was Irving/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford. So we know Stevens believes in it, and I think he'll try it again.

Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2019, 11:05:55 AM »

Online action781

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Stevens doesn't want to start Hayward as, if there is a problem with his play in the first 20 games? He doesn't want the pressure/drama of demoting him. I really think this is in play. Last season was a disaster for the team including Hayward....remember?
A big difference between last years disaster and this year is last year you had a bunch of guys coming off an ECF run and felt they deserved starting roles and minutes. That fed into the drama and frustrations. We don't have that this year. Our bench guys that are "candidates" for a starting spot are all unproven players.
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Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2019, 11:12:13 AM »

Offline RodyTur10

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I'm not even sure the question is relevant. Are there still power forwards in the NBA today?

A better question to debate would be: Against (for instance) the Sixers, who guards Al Horford? That is, for teams that start two bigs rather than one, who plays "up" on defense?

This will change from team-to-team, and game to game. But I think Stevens ultimately will choose to start his five best players on the floor, even if none looks like a traditional power forward.

Remember that this is exactly what he did at the start of 2017-18, minutes before Hayward broke his leg. The starting lineup for game 1 was Irving/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford. So we know Stevens believes in it, and I think he'll try it again.

Multiple people have said this, but the best 5 players on the team are Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Hayward. It would be ludicrous to have that as a starting line-up.

One question I have is what is actually our goal this season?

Trying to win? Building assets? Development?
Whatever the answer, it should be a factor in rotation decisions.

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Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2019, 11:15:32 AM »

Online action781

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I'm not even sure the question is relevant. Are there still power forwards in the NBA today?

A better question to debate would be: Against (for instance) the Sixers, who guards Al Horford? That is, for teams that start two bigs rather than one, who plays "up" on defense?

This will change from team-to-team, and game to game. But I think Stevens ultimately will choose to start his five best players on the floor, even if none looks like a traditional power forward.

Remember that this is exactly what he did at the start of 2017-18, minutes before Hayward broke his leg. The starting lineup for game 1 was Irving/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford. So we know Stevens believes in it, and I think he'll try it again.

I agree with you that he believes in it and will try it again.

There are PFs that we will struggle to defend with this starting 5 -- Horford, Siakam, Giannis, Aldridge.

But there are also PFs in the league -- Kawhi/PG, Draymond, LeBron/Kuzma -- that we'd struggle to defend if we did have a traditional PF (like a Derrick Favors).

There are very few PFs that can defend both, so Brad just needs to pick a style and go with it. And I think we know what that is going to be.
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Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2019, 11:16:58 AM »

Offline Walker Wiggle

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I'm not even sure the question is relevant. Are there still power forwards in the NBA today?

A better question to debate would be: Against (for instance) the Sixers, who guards Al Horford? That is, for teams that start two bigs rather than one, who plays "up" on defense?

This will change from team-to-team, and game to game. But I think Stevens ultimately will choose to start his five best players on the floor, even if none looks like a traditional power forward.

Remember that this is exactly what he did at the start of 2017-18, minutes before Hayward broke his leg. The starting lineup for game 1 was Irving/Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Horford. So we know Stevens believes in it, and I think he'll try it again.

Multiple people have said this, but the best 5 players on the team are Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Hayward. It would be ludicrous to have that as a starting line-up.

One question I have is what is actually our goal this season?

Trying to win? Building assets? Development?
Whatever the answer, it should be a factor in rotation decisions.

You're right. I guess I should have phrased it as "I think Stevens ultimately will choose to start his five best players on the floor, even if none looks like a traditional power forward, provided you have at least one big in there to rebound and bang down low.

Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #40 on: July 17, 2019, 06:42:04 PM »

Offline Boxn1

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Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #41 on: July 17, 2019, 07:04:26 PM »

Offline zeitgeist49

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The consensus seems to be we have no ideal candidate to play PF. The biggest concern is defense. We have 3 undersized potential PFs who are 6'8" (ie. Hayward, Theis and Tatum). I believe if we start Kanter, this will only compound the defensive problem. Great communication and team defense can only get you so far. I expect R. Wil. will take a major step forward this year. He doesn't space the floor and he probably has to learn to defend the picknroll better. However, he is by far our best rim protector. And he is an excellent passer. I would start R.Wil. at center and play Hayward at PF. Kanter could be effective coming off the bench, playing mostly against a second unit. A bench consisting of Kanter, Theis, R.Wil. , Smart and Edwards could be more than adequate.

Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #42 on: July 17, 2019, 07:11:23 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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The Celtics won't have a starting PF.  They'll have three interchangeable wings (Brown, Hayward, Tatum), none of whom will be able to handle any of the bigger players that start at the 4.

Couple this with Kanter likely being our starting C and I fear the Celtics are going to be a bottom 10 defensive team this year.  It's going to be ugly, to say the least.

Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2019, 07:17:40 PM »

Offline Muzzy66

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Tatum - he is far more suitable for playing the PF spot then Hayward. 

Hayward is 6'8"which is already undersized for an NBA PF, but his disadvantage is made even stronger by the fact that he only has a 6'8" wingspan and an 8'7" standing reach - he is a classic "T-rex arms" guy and simply does not have the length to defend even average sized NBA power forwards.

Tatum at age 19 measured at 6'8" with a 6'11" wingspan and 8'10" standing reach - that is pretty much the same height, length and reach (all give or take one inch) as Paul George, who also has a similarly slight build as well.  George has has proven he has the physical tools to be able to defend the PF spot, so I see no reason why Tatum shouldn't be able to do the same. 

And if anything I think Tatum may have grown since those measurements, as when I've seen them on the court he looks about as tall as Al Horford -which if true would put him at around 6'9" - 6'10". 

Tatum also played quite a bit of PF during his rookie year and from what I saw he actually did an admirable job at that position on both offense and defense.  His quickness, length and athleticism appeared to give a lot of opposing bigs trouble.

You start Hayward at PF, Kanter at C and Walker at PG and this will be quite possibly the worst defensive team in the entire NBA.  I also think I read comments from somebody (may have been Danny or Brad) saying that Tatum is working hard to add muscle.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 07:24:40 PM by Muzzy66 »

Re: Poll: Who should be the starting PF
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2019, 07:25:41 PM »

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